Chuck Beatty
Internet Posts, November 2007


Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77"
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2007 07:12:34 -0700
Local: Fri, Nov 2 2007 10:12 am
Subject: "established cult" Scientology fits in that category

From "Comprehending Cults", Lorne L. Dawson, Oxford Univ Press, 1998, p31-32.

"...most of the cults studied in any depth during the recent controversy about NRMs [New Religious Movements] are actually atypical. Scientology, Krishna Consciousness, and the Unification Church, for example, are relatively long-lived and relatively large. Accordingly, many of their features are rather sect-like. They are more highly organized and are more ideologically and practically sophisticated in their relations with the larger world. And except in the case of the Unificiation Church, they have managed to survive the death of their charismatic leader. Originally, though, each of these groups displayed markedly the traits of a cult. Moreover, they continue to display many cult-like attitutdes and practices, such as the emphasis on esoteric teachings and the satisfaction of individual needs. Perhaps, then, yet another category should be added to the church-sect typology, that of 'established cult'."

Chuck Beatty
Ex-Sea Org (lifetime staffer, 1975-2003)
Flag Dec 1975-Jun 1983 (TTC, Sup, Word Clearer, D of T, etc.)
Int Base 1983-1984 (Routing Forms Pjt)
Snr HCO Int in the FB in LA 1984-87 Re-Training (Int and LA) 87-88
Int Training Org, LA 88 (Sec Checker Sup)
LRH Tech Research and Comps, CMO Int, (Sept 88-Feb 89)
Int RPF (Feb-Mar 89)
PAC RPF (Mar-May 89)
Int Training Org (May-Sept 89) (Admin Sup)
INCOMM Sep 89-Sept 90 (Routing Forms Pjt)
INCOMM Sept 90-May92 (Computer Room LA & Int)
ASI May 92-Dec95 (Computer Room, In-Training Esto)
Decks Int (Dec 95-Jun 96)
Int RPF (Jun 96-Nov 2000)
PAC RPF (Nov 2000-Mar2003)
Routed out March 29, 2003.
Join XSO and network to old Sea Org friends:
Chuckbeatty77[email protected]/
I live in Pittsburgh, anyone feel free to call
me anytime: 412-260-1170

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77"
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2007 08:50:47 -0800
Local: Sun, Nov 4 2007 11:50 am
Subject: All Scientology has to do to "handle" Belgium, is pay off all the Belgium refund requests!

If Scientology paid all their Belgium refunds out of Scientology's Sea Org reserve fund accounts, Belgium's and the other EU countries would quiet down.

If Scientology just did a massive round of refund payments, around the world, that would be good PR, and it would quiet down all the disgruntled ex members to a large degree.

And to even improve their image, they should NOT require any type of giving up of legal rights by those that get the refunds.

I'd just start paying refunds by continent. Fire Refund missions to start in each "continent" and pay off ALL refunds!

Just apply Keeping Scientology Working in extreme fashion and "refund" people straight per Keeping Scientology Working policy.

Even if it bankrupts Scientology, I'd still do a wholescale refunding to anyone who wanted their "donations" back!

Chuck Beatty
ex Scientology staffer (1975-2003)
412-260-1170 Pittsburgh, USA (ex members call me anytime!)

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77"
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2007 11:32:13 -0800
Local: Sun, Nov 4 2007 2:32 pm
Subject: Re: All Scientology has to do to "handle" Belgium, is pay off all the Belgium refund requests!

> Perhaps you still haven't grasped that this isn't a civil case from
> ex-Scientologists who want their money back, this is a criminal case.

No arguement on this point.

I hope some precedents can be made that are transferable back to the US, for longer range cases here.

I look on Scientology as an 'established cult' like Lorne Dawson categorized it.

It's organized, it's survived Hubbard's death.

It's sitting on billions of dollars of real estate and assets, which I hope gets transferred back to those that want their money back, simple as that.

All the points on fraud, etc, fine, hope this all gets successfully prosecuted.

In the end, were Scientology to just start refunding left right and center, around the globe, to disgruntled customers, that in the end is a big part of people's bad feelings towards Scientology.

If Scientology and the independents insist on their rights to practice Hubbard 'tech' and receive money for it, and if in fact Hubbard 'tech' is proved to be fraud, that would be landmark.

You're right of course on all these points, I see.

I looked on this "problem" from the token Hubbard handling, just pay the people back who complain.

I've pressumed there was some value in the 'tech' inherently, which when I focus on 'tech' results, I think honestly that any type of human to human dialogue results in some reformation of ideas that a person will characterize as beneficial, no matter what.

Placebo effect cloaks the absolute NO RESULTS of Scientology/Hubbard's 'tech.'

Religion label shields a group like Scientology from scrutiny of it's 'tech' results.

To me this is another reason why some German universities need to encourage some multi-year serious detailed scholarship into Hubbard's public domain writings, and especially in a country that does NOT consider Scientology a legitimate religion!

The building blocks to scrutinize Scientology and expose Hubbard's setup need to be of scholar/academic level, in my opinion.

Let some academics study the damn history and writings of Hubbard and the whole history of the movement, inside out and backwards, and let competing scholars argue it all out for a decade. That'll put Scientology and Hubbard conclusively in its place in history!

Chuck Beatty
ex Scientology staffer (1975-2003)
412-260-1170 Pittsburgh, USA (ex members call me anytime!)

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77"
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2007 09:08:54 -0800
Local: Sun, Nov 4 2007 12:08 pm
Subject: Re: All Scientology has to do to "handle" Belgium, is pay off all the Belgium refund requests!

Hubbard said:

"...Australia got into its whole inquiry mess because the senior executives either did not know or follow the long-standing policy concerning the prompt return of money to a dissatisfied pc. That cost the org thousands and thousands, a year of grief, and risked getting Scientology banned in Australia. A policy not known or altered is death. Not from me but from the community in which the org operates."

L. Ron Hubbard

pages 200-201, Green Volume 0, 1999 edition, from policy 17 November 1964, Issue 1, "OFF-LINE AND OFF-POLICY, YOUR FULL IN-BASKET"

The point is that Scientology should just refund dissatisfied followers who want their donations back!

Chuck Beatty
Ex-Sea Org (lifetime staffer, 1975-2003)
Flag Dec 1975-Jun 1983 (TTC, Sup, Word Clearer, D of T, etc.)
Int Base 1983-1984 (Routing Forms Pjt)
Snr HCO Int in the FB in LA 1984-87 Re-Training (Int and LA) 87-88
Int Training Org, LA 88 (Sec Checker Sup)
LRH Tech Research and Comps, CMO Int, (Sept 88-Feb 89)
Int RPF (Feb-Mar 89)
PAC RPF (Mar-May 89)
Int Training Org (May-Sept 89) (Admin Sup)
INCOMM Sep 89-Sept 90 (Routing Forms Pjt)
INCOMM Sept 90-May92 (Computer Room LA & Int)
ASI May 92-Dec95 (Computer Room, In-Training Esto)
Decks Int (Dec 95-Jun 96)
Int RPF (Jun 96-Nov 2000)
PAC RPF (Nov 2000-Mar2003)
Routed out March 29, 2003.
Join XSO and network to old Sea Org friends:
Chuckbeatty77[email protected]/
I live in Pittsburgh, anyone feel free to call
me anytime: 412-260-1170

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77"
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007 09:07:24 -0800
Local: Fri, Nov 9 2007 12:07 pm
Subject: L. Ron Hubbard's writings are Scientology's permanent problem.

Religious movement scholars should do a study of all of Hubbard's intelligence/public relations/legal tactics/private eye tactics.

The Office of Special Affairs International is guided by Hubbard writings.

Office of Special Affairs occupies 2 of the 12 floors of the HGB building,

Office of Special Affairs Church of Scientology International
6331 Hollywood Blvd,
LA, CA, 90027.


Scholars and media and intelligent researchers of the Scientology movement should understand that there are PLENTY of ex high ranking Scientology staff members ready and willing to confirm to what degree, year by year, in the Scientology movement's history, these various above Hubbard orders and polices were implemented firsthand by these former members in the past.

Hubbard's writings DRIVE Scientologists to act the way they do.

People have to read what Hubbard wrote, because that is absolutely essential to understanding why Scientologists act the way they do.

Scientologists act out Hubbard's policies above!

Simple as that.

"Depopularizing" is what Religious Freedom Watch is all about.

Chuck Beatty

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77"
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:16:56 -0800
Local: Tues, Nov 13 2007 5:16 pm
Subject: Re: Hello Again
Reply | Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Remove | Report this message | Find messages by this author

On Nov 12, 10:53?pm, bkskory wrote:

> On Nov 12, 7:51 pm, "R. Hill" wrote:

> > Me think you are (not so subtly) just fishing for information since
> > the first time you posted here.

> Not really.

Anyone with some smarts and savvy and communication skills can engage the former members willing to speak up. You gotta win people's trust though!

Blaming blownforgood for not talking with his name, well, I'd prefer it was that way also that the ex members all just went public with their names and phone numbers, and I hope the next round of defectees are at that level of transparency.

Let's hope Mike Rinder turns out to be the next Robert Vaughn Young/ Stacy Young/Jesse Prince!!!!!

It is inevitable, as the years roll on, that ex staff find their voices to speak fully transparently.

In the meantime, we have this imperfect array of ex members partially willing.

blownforgood isn't a Jesse Prince type of caliber ex high ranking member. Jesse had serious "balls."

Part of the problem is that those people who SHOULD be historically stepping up and speaking out, don't.

Scientology's/Hubbard's indoctrinated codes of silence rules and penalties are what keep ex members from speaking up, and also the barrage of questions causing ex members to have to eat a huge load of humble pie.

I wish it were better and easeir for ex members to make the mental transition to speak up, but it's unfortunately just the historical facts that Scientology/Hubbard's rules and system still dominate ex members' minds to this bad effect that people like blownforgood, Little Bear Victor, BTs2Free, and other ex Int (Gilman Hot Springs) and older senior staff who post on Clambake, still are pressured into NOT going public with their names out of fear of hassling by Scientology.

To me the culprit is the degree of conditioning one absorbed from the Hubbard/Scientology fear system of pressuring the silence out of the former members, and then also the personal humility trait a person possesses. The more humble, the more free to speak a person is.

Also I've tried to convince ex members that no matter WHAT the Scientologist spew in smearing against them as former members, the outside world instinctively and rightly smells a rat in all the calculated polished smearing/depopularizing that official Scientologists do per Hubbard's "depopularizing" policies.

Luckily the world smells Hubbard's foul "depopularizing" and smearing their "enemies" tactics a mile away!

Normal everyday people instinctively sense something foul about Scientology right from the get go, and in truth, the label for the subject is indicative and a permanent foreshadowing of the whole movement. "Scien t ology" smacks of Hubbard's blatant pretentiousness and egomania and megalomania.

Back to blownforgood and all other recently defected ex Int staff from the top ranks not willing to speak publicly yet, I feel for them, and I hope one or more of them does step up and starts a new wave.

I rather hope that Mike Rinder finds his voice, finds his own way of speaking up!

But at this very instant, ANYONE can privately email blownforgood, BTs2Free and Little Bear Victor. (go to any of his posts, go to the "PM" (private email) option to send him a private email) (go to any of his posts, go to the "PM" (private email) option to send him a private email) (go to any of his posts, go to the "PM" (private email) option to send him a private email)

In my opinion, these 3 are the best, most willing ex Int staff to speak up, barring Bruce Hines and Larry Brennan!

And again, ANY ex Sea Org members can get onto the XSO chat site and read amazing history from Apollo vets and former WDC members giving no holds barred stories of life under DM and under Hubbard!

Chuck Beatty
Ex-Sea Org (lifetime staffer, 1975-2003)
Flag Dec 1975-Jun 1983 (TTC, Sup, Word Clearer, D of T, etc.)
Int Base 1983-1984 (Routing Forms Pjt)
Snr HCO Int in the FB in LA 1984-87 Re-Training (Int and LA) 87-88
Int Training Org, LA 88 (Sec Checker Sup)
LRH Tech Research and Comps, CMO Int, (Sept 88-Feb 89)
Int RPF (Feb-Mar 89)
PAC RPF (Mar-May 89)
Int Training Org (May-Sept 89) (Admin Sup)
INCOMM Sep 89-Sept 90 (Routing Forms Pjt)
INCOMM Sept 90-May92 (Computer Room LA & Int)
ASI May 92-Dec95 (Computer Room, In-Training Esto)
Decks Int (Dec 95-Jun 96)
Int RPF (Jun 96-Nov 2000)
PAC RPF (Nov 2000-Mar2003)
Routed out March 29, 2003.
Join XSO and network to old Sea Org friends:
Chuckbeatty77[email protected]/
I live in Pittsburgh, anyone feel free to call
me anytime: 412-260-1170

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77"
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:50:26 -0800
Local: Tues, Nov 13 2007 5:50 pm
Subject: Re: Don't insult Scientology

On Nov 13, 12:31?pm, [email protected] wrote:

> Does Scientology engage in brainwashing or mind control?

> Not only is this question insulting, it is made even more
> offensive to Scientology since the exact opposite is true. Scientology
> makes people spiritually free and enables them to think for
> themselves. Indeed, one of the maxims used in the Church is that a
> parishioner should not just believe, but should observe the veracity
> and workability of Scientology for himself and only accept it when it
> is true for him.

Scientology results in people believing in dualism (body and spirit) and in past lives and future lives.

I was in for 27 years, and I don't agree with either of these views now.

Dualism and past lives have not achieved scientific proof.

Dualism and past lives is NOT true to me.

I left Scientology as my beliefs in past lives and dualism was collapsing, in my final years and months as a Scientology staffer.

I returned to atheism.

I vote for the good things other religions demonstrate person for person, member for member, compared to Scientologists, who are driven by Hubbard's extremely retributive rules to attack their "enemies."

When I weighed the behavior of Scientologists acting out Hubbard's worst policies, I chose the behavior of my Christian and Catholic friends and family I'd known in my life prior to Scientology OVER the behavior of the top ranking Scientologists who acted like vicious bastards (Barbara Ruiz, David Miscavige) in the name of L. Ron Hubbard.

I'm an atheist, but Jesus' writings get my vote over L. Ron Hubbard's writings, and I am today more a fan of Dawkins and Sam Harris, but I'll take Jesus' teachings over Hubbard's teachings! Especially Hubbard's heartless disconnection policies and Hubbard's heartless suppressive person rules that snag and snare and entrap and elevate ANY ex Scientologist into "Suppressive Person" status if the ex Scientologist speaks out about what they consider FOUL about Hubbard's writings!


Hubbard's rules stifle one from criticizing Hubbard's BAD ideas!

Disconnection is FOUL and wrong.

SP declaring people who simply firmly hate some of Hubbard's foul ideas is WRONG.

Hubbard turned all dissenters into "SPs" and make Scientologists disconnect and THAT is wrong!

That is systemic intollerance.

Hubbard's rules are so pervasive the rules are so prolific, the Scientologists are trapped and they don't even see they are trapped in their intolerance!

> The people making such accusations hold the opposite view. They
> seek to change opinion through "deprogramming," a violent form of
> faith breaking which frequently involves kidnaping, forcible
> restraint, food and sleep deprivation, assault, battery and rape.
> These same people refuse to even allow Church representatives to show
> them the true information about Scientology or engage in any form of
> meaningful dialogue whatsoever.

The only people who hold a low opinion of deprogramming have NOT seen deprogramming.

The great movie called "Ticket to Heaven" should be watched by ex Scientologists to see what "deprogramming" supposedly is!!!

Deprogramming is simply trying to get cult members to open their minds again to the outside world's logic that the cult members have shut themselves off from due to the traps that the cult founder's writings have set up.

Hubbard's Office of Special Affairs runs the depopularization of the concept of "deprogramming".

I find the chaos of the freedom of thought in the regular world outside the Scientology/Hubbard walled off mindset a relief!

Give me the chaos of free thought and discussion and freedom to CRITICIZE however imperfectly people do in arguing about ideas freely.

Scientology/Hubbard's extensive penalty rules stifle free thought and stifle ALL criticism of Hubbard's dogmatic conclusions about life!

Depopularizing "deprogramming", well, again, ex Scientologists do yourselves a favor and see the movie called "Ticket to Heaven" a Canadian film about "deprogramming" and judge for yourselves!

I'll take the freedom of arguing and criticizing any day over the orderly stifling freedom to only agree with "source", with L. Ron Hubbard!

> Millions of Scientologists from literally all walks of life have
> attested to the positive benefits received from their religion. A
> common theme to their personal success stories is that they are now
> more in control of their lives than they ever have been.

The truth is that these MILLIONS have all discarded Scientology LONG after their temporary involvement.

Scientology's inaccurate census figures are exposed by the recent census figures in Australia, which I posted recently. While Scientology is increasing in Australia, it is clear that people who did some degree of Scientology in their years past, those Australian's DO NOT continue to count themselves as Scientologists!!!!!

Scientology lies about their census figures.

People who do reliable census tallies in Australia prove this point!

There are MILLIONS of EX Scientologists, or more accurately there are MILLIONS who never properly were Scientologists, but who probably more normally who simply delved into Scientology for temporary periods and then moved on to OTHER "religious" affiliations or NO religious affiliation, like me.

Scientology does NOT see that the world sees Scientology for what it is.

Hubbard was into pretention about his "subjects" from day one. "Scien t ology"

> Then, too, L. Ron Hubbard was one of the first to discover and
> expose actual mind control and brainwashing experimentation conducted
> by United States military and intelligence agencies during and after
> World War II. He called these techniques "pain-drug-hypnosis."

Good for ANY exposure that Hubbard did! I have no problem patting Hubbard on his head for anything good he tried.

Just don't hype Hubbard!

He's unsellable, if you haven't noticed.

Again, Hubbard's "serious" spiritual work, look at what a tough sell it is?

Hubbard truly believed himself covered with amnesia tranced souls of dead humanoids from the 75 million year ago massive galactic level genocide by Lord Xenu.

Hubbard believed that people had to get Clear, then go OT as fast as possible, to un infest themselves of their burden of these thousands of clusters of dead souls that are affixed and embedded all through our bodies.

That is truly what he believed.

When Scientology is laid out in plain English, it is a tough sell.

Hubbard should have seen this.

Instead he left some extremely predicament causing rules for the faithful Scientology movement followers to struggle with.

Who wants to be cut off from one's parents or kids, when one parent or kid decides to GET OUT of the Hubbard system, or when one wants to complain about the Hubbard system!

Chuck Beatty
Ex-Sea Org (lifetime staffer, 1975-2003)
Flag Dec 1975-Jun 1983 (TTC, Sup, Word Clearer, D of T, etc.)
Int Base 1983-1984 (Routing Forms Pjt)
Snr HCO Int in the FB in LA 1984-87 Re-Training (Int and LA) 87-88
Int Training Org, LA 88 (Sec Checker Sup)
LRH Tech Research and Comps, CMO Int, (Sept 88-Feb 89)
Int RPF (Feb-Mar 89)
PAC RPF (Mar-May 89)
Int Training Org (May-Sept 89) (Admin Sup)
INCOMM Sep 89-Sept 90 (Routing Forms Pjt)
INCOMM Sept 90-May92 (Computer Room LA & Int)
ASI May 92-Dec95 (Computer Room, In-Training Esto)
Decks Int (Dec 95-Jun 96)
Int RPF (Jun 96-Nov 2000)
PAC RPF (Nov 2000-Mar2003)
Routed out March 29, 2003.
Join XSO and network to old Sea Org friends:
Chuckbeatty77[email protected]/
I live in Pittsburgh, anyone feel free to call
me anytime: 412-260-1170

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77"
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 22:41:28 -0800
Local: Wed, Nov 14 2007 1:41 am
Subject: Scientology's Bridge to Total Freedom confidential top levels are too embarrassing to discuss publicly.

Scientology is a long runway to some very embarrassing fantasy ideas about oneself and the universe.

The top levels that Scientologists reach, called OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7, involve beliefs which are instantly embarrassing to discuss for Scientologists.

Hubbard's upper OT levels on his Bridge to Total Freedom require thousands of hours of spiritual counseling techniques to rid top level Scientologists of their burden of thousands of clusters of dead souls (body thetans) infesting their bodies.

Earth has a surplus of untold billions of surplus dead souls here on earth. Long ago, 75 millions years ago per L. Ron Hubbard, an infamous ancient space leader Hubbard called "Xenu" committed a massive genocide against an untold number of people (billions) brought here from other planets and murdered in a mega massive genocide, and the killing fields of this massive 75 million year ago genocide were at a dozen volcanos here on earth back then.

Surplus souls of these murdered people brought here 75 million years ago, those murdered people's souls clustered together because they didn't have bodies to transmigrate into. The clusters of souls mostly were electronically put into amnesia trances and thousands of clusters of these dead amnesia tranced souls today infest everyone's body on earth. Every live human being has a huge surplus of thousands of clusters of dead souls stuck to everyone's body.

Scientology's OT levels 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 are the only spiritual techniques on earth supposedly to help humankind rid themselves of this surplus soul burden that everyone is afflicted with unknowingly.

Scientology raises a person up to awareness of their burden of surplus souls attached to each of us, and Scientology gets a person first of all "Clear", and then after you're Clear you continue up the confidential spiritual levels of Scientology OT levels 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 set free all your surplus souls! At spiritual level OT 3 Scientologists first hear officially from reading Hubbard's handwritten story about the massive genocide that ancient space leader Xenu committed here on earth 75 million years ago.

That's all Scientology is seriously all about. Hubbard took this absolutely seriously. There is no joking about all this inside Scientology.

Hubbard wrote serious penalties for Scientologists ever publicly discussing this in plain language.

Hubbard left the movement with no solution to this problem that these beliefs are now widely leaked out into the public, and people can go on the internet and read Hubbard's writings about these no longer confidential upper spiritual levels of Hubbard's "Bridge to Total Freedom".

Scientologists who satisfactorily uninfest themselves of their burden of surplus souls are in long range future good shape to go on to the higher spiritual levels and someday operate without bodies at all, but become operating souls without bodies, like the glowing hovering energy beings in the Star Trek TV show episodes.

No one in my 27 years of being Scientology staff demonstrated any supernatural abilities like Hubbard implies the upper level Scientologists should be capable once they've walked all Hubbard's steps on Hubbard's Bridge to Total Freedom.

Because none of these high level Scientologists who have walked the whole Hubbard Bridge to Total Freedom can demonstrate even the slightest supernatural spiritual abilities, that is why critics consider Scientology a long range con job.

I write this comment here for new religious movement studies students who've been asking for a simple description of what goes on at the top levels of the Hubbard Bridge to Total Freedom.

Chuck Beatty

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77"
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 23:24:47 -0800 (PST)
Local: Fri, Nov 30 2007 2:24 am
Subject: Re: Scientology defamer Chuck Beatty is a German pawn

[answer directed to Barbara Schwarz]

People want their simple questions about Scientology answered.

What do Scientologists believe. They aren't allowed to openly state their beliefs about body thetans, since that is confidential material, and when it is simply explained, it doesn't make sense why Hubbard said it cannot be discussed.

No one is getting ill from hearing the truth about body thetans and the supposed genocide that occurred here on earth 75 million years ago that was committed by the space alien character named Xenu.

Hubbard didn't answer questions simply.

He could have, but he didn't.

I like this interview with LRH, it's such an all important interview for ex members to view over and over, and to look at LRH carefully and see LRH for what he is.

We know LRH was fibbing (lying) several times in the interview, it's so obvious, and we know LRH had 3 wives, not 2.

LRH was caught in this interview fibbing (lying).

Hubbard's own words in this short 26 minute show reveal the flaws in Hubbard and his operation.

Watch this film, see what LRH said himself:

Chuck Beatty

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77"
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:56:53 -0800 (PST)
Local: Fri, Nov 30 2007 10:56 pm
Subject: Re: I am aware that the anti-religious extremists don't like the truth on the However, who defames and attacks L. Ron Hubbard, Scientology or Scientologists has to understand that not all Scientologists just take this abuse. If you have evidence that there is one incorrect word on the RFW, please address the webmaster with the evidence, and he will take care of it. Do not defame individual Scientologists of having spread lies when they are referring to the site. If you want your extremist profile taken off the site, better your characters and cease your anti-religious hate activities.

> > Everything you do to discredit L. Ron Hubbard, Chuck, sounds exactly
> > like German psychiatric secret service propaganda.

why do you say that?

> Because you promote the lines that the Germans fabricated.

I get my info from the books written by Bent Corydon, Jon Atack, Robert Kaufman, Paulette Cooper, George Malko, Stewart Lamont, Russell Miller.

I am only saying in my own words the things I've seen written, and also here on ARS former GO people who post here occassionally, ones who've phoned me, they tell me about the old GO days.

I worked in a few positions where I saw people like Trish Allen and Jacqueline Kevanar, then both OSA Int staff, doing the project to extract from the LRH orders to the old GO, all the "tech" that OSA uses today.

That tech I continue to link to, since this link for instance is the research that proves OSA uses the LRH tech LRH gave to the GO, and I saw the two ladies who were then OSA Int staff who did the compilations of the OSA Network Orders that ARE the LRH writings that cover the disgraceful irrelgious tactics, and the tactics are LRH's orders!

LRH is the source of the disgraceful intelligence stuff.

Read Mr. Hubbard!

I give my opinion of that "tech" and that "tech" is wrong for a religion to be having a huge operation like Office of Special Affairs orchestrating people and pushing the "depopularizing" tactics, like the Religious Freedom Watch.

That stuff is wrong.

I came to the conclusion on my own, reading the books of the people above, and from my recollections of the people I met in my years in the Sea Org, and also from ex GO people who've contacted me since leaving.

Hubbard is the source of my bad feelings about his ideas! He should NOT have concentrated so much attention on the tactics that he has left as permanent orders for the Office of Special Affairs to carry out today. That's wrong. It doesn't help Scientology and only makes Scientology hated.

> Don't you get it, Chuck?

> 1) L. Ron Hubbard's research ends p$ych monopoly.

Hardly. My conclusion is that the bulk of Scientology's benefit for humankind is personal relationships that Scientologists develope with one another, and that's just human nature to want to survive in groups and help each other out. Good for all the good things people do to help each other out in life. Hubbard boringly over hypes how great his "tech" is and in fact in my opinion the benefit of Scientology is just the normal human relationships that people make while Scientologists with each other.

> 2) Psychiatry is a German intention.

I don't think all psychiatry is bad. I read in Newsweek Magazine, and even posted it on ARS I think, where one condensed article said that a good stable counselor together with the right medication can have miraculous good results on people who used to have to spend their lives in insane asylums due to their delusions. The article pointed out that a good stable good mentsch counselor who stuck by the patient, and correct medication kept delusions (the real hard case cases who have hallucinations and so forth) from happening at all. I applaud good mentsch counselors and good priest, good people who try one on one to help other people.

I don't condemn all psychiatry, that's not correct. Fine on people pointing out all the over drugging and the horrible other bad things that psychiatrists do.

But Hubbard was wrong to make such a HUGE deal out of pscyh bashing. He built psych bashing into Scientology's strategic goals, and this is a HUGE wrong and irreligious strategic move also.

CCHR should NOT be connected with funding NOR any OSA overseeing. CCHR should be set adrift, and hire completely non Scientologists, and STOP all their overdramatizing.

And Scientology ought to stop applauding itself for all it's anti psych stuff. It can't because Hubbard was extremist in his hatred for pscychiatry.

Hubbard's extreme views turned into policy, into the CCHR setup, into WDC OSA overseeing OSA and overseeing CCHR, that is all NOT religious tradition.

It's a major Hubbard blindspot mistake.

If you notice the "squirrels" who apply the 1970s version of LRH's tech fanatically, those people are NOT at all into CCHR and the obsessive anti psychiatry crap that official Scientology is (CCHR, OSA and WDC OSA).

LRH's "big" strategies for causing the demise of psychiatry is just plain wrong.

It is one of the lesser major problems LRH left the movement STUCK with his very bad ideas which he turned into OSA and CCHR policy, and they are STUCK with Hubbard's worst extreme opinions as their jobs.

It causes Scientology to be perceived as irrational for Scientologists (thinking like Hubbard thought) for thinking psychiatry is just 100% bad and should be tanked.

No one disagrees that psych abuses should all stop! But people who get help from proper psychological counseling and proper medication are doing better than had they NOT gotten that counseling and proper medication.

That's from just reading Newsweek magazine! I used to subscribe to it.

Another source I read is the New York Review of Books, still do, and I highly recommend it. It had a recent months article from the doctor lady who is campaigning against over psych drugging, and I don't think anyone disagrees with that type of over drugging should be alerted and STOP!

Hubbard's plan to abolish psychiatry and psychology, and have Scientology replace the field of mental health, that is delusional. Hubbard prided himself of making grand goals, but this goal is delusional.

> 3) They want Dianetics and SCN destroyed.

Who? Things change. Look at even the top ranks of Scientology, things change there also. Mike Rinder left. Kurt Weiland was busted to the "hall" (voluntary detention category), Heber Jentsch busted to the "hall", Jacqueline Kevanar routed out of the Sea Org, Neil Levin and his wife are out of the Sea Org, there is just name after name of people who are NOT in the Sea Org, NOT in OSA anymore!

Internally in Scientology's top ranks there is constant change and all the top people are busted. Except David Miscavige.

In the outside world, same thing. The people LRH claimed were attacking Scientology back in the 1950s and 1960s, like LRH, are dead or long retired.

There is NO ongoing psych conspiracy against Scientology.

History changes, and there isn't some evil group out to get Scientology.

LRH's own writings are NOW on the internet, alot of Hubbard's intelligence and dirty tricks tactics writings are on the internet, and those writings are STILL on the books, meaning Scientology still has those writings ready to use if need be, since Hubbard was so organizaed in how he specified which of his writings could always be used, he said whatever of his writings and lectures were "timeless tech" that those writings and lectures should be PRESERVED.

There is much you would understand if you read what Hubbard wrote. His writings in detail, all his behind the scenes writings for the staff of OSA Int, for the staff at Gilman Hot Springs, those writings are available to those that are inside the movement.

Those writings are not forgeries like you like to state.

The dozens of ex Sea Org members who now chat on the XSO chat site, dozens have seen the writings of Hubbard that are the behind the scenes orders and despatches from Hubbard, and on XSO are several of the actual commodore's messengers who actually tape recorded Hubbard, and transcribed Hubbard, and then typed the despatches and delivered them to the high top executives in the movement back in the late 1970s, the point is real people who KNOW the truth, they know what Hubbard said, they actually copied and delivered the Hubbard insider top level despatches which contain his orders, those people are alive and chatting with one another!!!

My efforts are to get the real participants to open up.

The history of the movement is dull by most standards, but the truth is sometimes embarrassing and shocking to some people.

I think in context of the more severe abuse that goes on in life, Scientology is pretty minor.

But I will work getting the details of the history somehow into the public domain for anyone researching Scientology, and I will gladly network researchers (media, academics, students) to ex members if they need help.

At this point, enough of the ex members are contactable via private email on Clambake.

> 4) They start a defamation campaign against Ron.

I read the books on Hubbard and Scientology, and the reports done by governments on Scientology, which I highly recommend be read:

> 5) They send their infiltrators in to alter SCN from the inside and
> then have them blow and attack from the outside, lying that they ever
> were Scientologists.

Read the books on Scientology.

Watch this TV show, where Omar Garrison is interviewed. Omar and the other people interviewed don't fit your above comments.

> 6) They blame Ron on what the infiltrators did.

> And you support this with everything you do.

Read the books on Scientology.

Watch this show, and just Google video Scientology and watch the great TV shows done on Scientology.

> As far as these break ins are concerned. Infiltrators listening to
> their case officers did it and they committed these crimes so that Ron
> and SCN are being blamed.

I am sure this is true. I've had some ex members describe the actual infiltrators they caught, and I believe those stories.

There are a fractional amount of genunine infiltrators, and NONE of those infiltrators was a high status person.

I know the other extreme also, when one of the FBOs in EU was gang bang sec checked in 1982, he almost had a mental breakdown from the pressuring interrogation.

Scientology leaders (David Miscavige most specifically, but also Matias Patel and Don Larson) all put such serious pressue on some of the Scientologist staff members who got those gang bang sec checking interrogations that the victims were severely influenced negatively.

So there is NO question that Scientology leadership (Miscavige, Patel, Larson and others I don't know about, I'd say another 5-10 main interrogators) did some "damage" by the overpressuring interrogations in the early 1980s, which is when this "Plant" checking was the big fad in Scientology.

That disgraceful period is NOT happening now, thank goodness. There is no forced interrogations of that degree, but there is some pretty bad auditing that gets done in the name of security checking I've heard in the 1990s.

I did hear in Marty Rathbun's favor that Marty did do a really good "ethics" interview of a person who respected Marty and appreciated Marty's ethics interview. This was sometime prior to Marty blowing though, because the person who respected and liked Marty and said good things about Marty, that person blew though. Marty blew first though, and then this person who told me the story blew a couple years later. Anyways, as of about 2004, Marty did a good job of applying the interrogation tech, per this person, and so what I understand of the bad old days of forced all night interrogations, that is over, and I give this example of Marty giving what this person appreciated as a "good" interrogation. This person is anti David Miscavige, but pro Hubbard, who told me this story about Marty.

> As far as MSH is concerned. I am personally convinced that Ron never
> married her.

That is truly sad that you believe this. There are dozens of people who saw Ron and Mary Sue together up through 1975.

I met the man who was Mary Sue's helper on the Apollo. He was sort of Mary Sue's butler and estates person, named Don [Bateman], who was trusted for a couple years to be Mary Sue's estates guy.

I've met dozens of people who know that Hubbard and Mary Sue were married.

I knew someone who was an "old timer" from Texas who knew Mary Sue before she married Ron, and he was around at the time that Ron took Mary Sue off to get married!

>It is possible that they never met and if they did, MSH

> was just one of many people who sat in the audience. Either she made
> the marriage up or she married an impostor. The tapes and photos on
> which they are together are DOCTORED.

This is where I cannot understand why you don't simply seek out people who saw Mary Sue and Ron together, and ask them.

There are people posting on the XSO chat site who can absolutely confirm seeing Mary Sue and Ron Hubbard together.

> The truth is easy to be recognized by somebody who cannot be bought.

> --
> Barbara Schwarz

When you talk like the above, I wonder why you don't reach out and meet the people who met LRH, and ask them?

You at least write here on ARS, why not ask to meet the people who met Ron and Mary Sue?

And Marty? Do you want to meet some people who have met Marty and Ron and Mary Sue? You can if you want.

You talk to me, you can talk to them!

Chuck Beatty

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