From: chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
.....I found myself set in a field in the freezing cold- in a rain storm crouched under a tree- too afraid to go 'home' and be chastised by other Scientologists or go back to the Org.
This is exactly the kind of incident that prompts people to say "fuck it" and have nothing further to do with Scientology or the Sea Org.
It is my belief that the people who blow Scientology or the Sea Org do so usually following some intense predicament or degrading extreme incident or multiple degrading extreme incidents. Those incidents generally are the breaking point, and the person decides they have finally had enough, and it is not worth staying.
Scientology and the Sea Org don't have to be that way, and
unfortunately, it is my further opinions that there has to be a lot of
discarding of Hubbard's rules/policies before the Scientology movement
and Sea Org will cease precipitating these extreme
incidents/predicaments that are so stressful which are in my opinion
the real reason people can't take it any more and get out. (LRH was so
twisted, he insists this is the leaving person's fault, and LRH
attributes the evilness being restrained by the leaving person as the
motive the leaving person is secretly retreating so as to NOT commit
evil and violence against the group the leaving person is leaving; LRH
was unbelievably not one to recognize his part of the equation, and he
always made it the leaving person's fault, LRH being utterly consumed
with his own rightness for all mankind and all future life everywhere
in the universe....This is why it is imperative ex members reflecting
about LRH read LRH's Admissions, since they give meaning to why LRH
would be so blindly sure of himself and why LRH always heaped blame
everywhere except on himself.)
Sure, the people leaving may have done goofs, intentional and sometimes innocently, prior to the "ethics" being taken on them, and the people applying the ethics go overboard. But it is the people who go overboard, get into the screaming fits of condemnation and the disgraceful slapping, pushing, kicking, spitting stuff that has been done off and on for decades near the top ranks, the really bad behavior of a few people at Int, is just the last straw for me.
It convinces me that Scientology as a whole movement is really troubled, and NOT something that should be let remain free to continue applying these extreme disgraceful tactics on its own people. That's why any of the petty violence and screaming I hope ceases altogether. Again I hope someone recently coming from the top ranks comments on the atmosphere, and can tell if the crap has stopped, since the last couple years it was out of control per many of the people coming out of the Int base ranks.
LRH is the root of the screaming vicious behavior. He was unchecked in what he wrote for the rules for the Sea Org, allowing seniors to raise their voices, etc., which in my experience seniors are prone to excede their rationality quickly when screaming, over screaming, over dramatizing their own inadequacies as executives, unable to handle their zones so that even their juniors couldn't cause unsolvable problems. I saw more often than not screaming execs soon crashed and burned, since their screaming also indicated they'd not been on top of the scene competently that their juniors were bungling, or as seniors they'd let their junior's area slide too far into disrepair. Again, LRH is as fault I feel, since he blamed "non-compliance" so directly on a senior's "ethics presence" and LRH laid out bluntly that threats to the junior are what got compliance, so LRH is truly the one who gives seniors the rights to scream and engage in the stiff "ethics gradients" to ensure "compliance."
And LRH had his own numerous personal screaming fits. And LRH's violence against Otto Roos and Mike Douglas, those became the "hidden data line" known to the top male leadership, and even females, in the top ranks of Scientology ever since. LRH's disgraceful slapping and throttling personal tactics are just about as far as David Miscavige takes it. His justifications are this is what LRH said, and this is what LRH did.
It goes back to LRH.
LRH was wrong, and he and Scientology are wide open to criticism for continuing this.
It should stop. Period. I hope someone recently left from Int will tell if it's stopped or not.
From: chuckbeatty77 @aol.com - view profile
[email protected] wrote:
I used to love the Freedom Mag, years ago, when they interviewed Jim Garrison, and sort of helped rekindle Garrison's life by publishing Garrison's thoughts and experiences.
Freedom mag editors and writers are hampered by Hubbard's restrictions that all Scientologists are hampered by.
They cannot self-criticize. Hubbard lacked humility, and the movement isn't allowed any humilty.
Hubbard was big on propagandizing and smearing, and Freedom is all part of the propagandizing strategies, laid out in this AGI's admin scale: http://www.xenu.net/archive/go/agiadmin/agiadm1.htm
If Aaron Mason is out of the movement, and wants to, I hope Aaron goes public, and unloads the details of his years of OSA duties, and insider info on OSA's ongoing strategies and tactics. Aaron was part of Freedom as writer and even Editor himself for a few issues.
All the ex OSA people, please, one of you step up and speak out!
Subject: Private email answer to an ex AOLA Case Supervisor
ex AOLA Case Supervisor said: "The scene was much different then as it is now, because we were playing in the big leagues."
It was acceptable to me that the church broke into the FBI, etc, when they did, seeing as we have heard (assuming it is true) that the US Govt repeatedly sent in operatives into the church to steal stuff on the church, etc.
I see this, that LRH condoned similar response to those attacking Scn, and LRH basically used the justification (DM did also when DM gave the whole 2 hours long "War is Over" lecture during the War is Over event) that the psychs intentionally smeared Scn over the years with lies.
So I understood the whole GO's rationale being based on LRH's Simon Bolivar PL and operating like the players operate in the world you are in.
In fact I am positive that the Simon Bolivar PL was MSH's marching orders.
I don't think it is vaguely arguable what you say above.
Others observers of the world, namely the whole intellectual class go into excruticating arguments and details about the idiocy, totalitarian, outrageous abuses in governments, all through history.
That's where I came from, roughly, I was wowed by Scn's being cutting edge counter attackers of the US Govt which in the late 60s (the FBI was considered fascistic, etc., and the raid was completely positioned like Richard Banoun [Banoun the babboon] was considered fascistic by the younger generation I sided with at the time).
I laughed and thought "So what!" if we (Scn/GO) got caught, I agree, at the time it was sort of cool to think we (Scn) were cutting edge.
But now, I see what I failed to see at the time, that the immoral behavior in the FBI and all over society's institutions, the moral thing would be to expose it, but NOT to stoop to the practices of those immoral attackers.
Martin Luther King formulated, and the SNCC (Student Nonviolence Coordinating Committee) formulated rigid tactics, THAT WORKED. The SNCC's rigid non-violence showed the "pigs" for what they were better than the Chicago rioting young people.
Scn had already taken the wrong turn with LRH's Simon Boliver.
Scn had already taken the right turn back in the 50s when LRH in the Manual of Justice said use PIs, and drudge up the bad stuff, sue to harrass, etc.
LRH was consistently immoral going back at least as far as the later part of the 50s, in his counter attacking methods I now feel are what you sidestep honestly by misplacing blame elsewhere.
I don't think the GO's stuff, any of the covert infiltration is correct.
The high moral ground is better. Turn the other cheek is better.
Calling the police is better.
Exposing fascistic govt and FBI and exposing fascistic totalitarian police, etc., is correct.
Doing it legally is the right way.
I think it better to revise one's faulty earlier ideas of agreeing with fundamentally immoral behavior once one has seen instances of finer moral character displayed by other human beings is correct.
I think monkey see / monkey do is inevitable. I look to others with greater skills in writing and speaking, to others with greater ability to express better ideas.
LRH isn't the guy. He's not the person this world should role model themselves after, and Scn people and ex Scn people I don't feel should limit themselves to LRH.
He's not a good role model for humanity. There's no selling of LRH that is gonna fly.
The dissemination of Scn has bombed these last over 15 years, even after quite a lot of hard work and money when Ronnie Miscavige built the CMU up to over 60 people, because ultimately LRH. LRH cannot be sold, and Scientology cannot be sold like LRH wishes it to be sold.
Scn and LRH are way too creepy, too many outpoints.
It's a losing game. LRH's counter tactics, claiming all the criticism is psych or IRS, simply was never true.
LRH wrote so much he's gotten all the participants of Scn involved almost their whole waking day with one or another of this rules or ideas, keeping them busy busy busy, distracted off of the valid criticism aimed at him from day one.
Naw, Hubbard ain't ever gonna be sold. He's displayed way too many core faults that the world reads in almost every 10 pages of his writings (exceptions like the Way to Happiness I will admit, which is almost 100% acceptable to me).
But I remember when the order went to the Class 5 orgs and to the missions for raw public NOT to be allowed to read Keeping Scientology Working PL until they got onto the Hubbard Qualified Scientologist Course, reason being that at that moment in time too many raw public reading KSW #1 did what LRH boldly bluff challenges people to do, which is "Quit fast..."
Orgs and MIssions, somewhere, complained they didn't show raw public KSW #1, and they kept more raw public. So their successful action was turned at that time into a broad order.
It didn't stick, I think it got reversed a year or two later, but it showed me also at least when management could freely respond to even that plea to NOT show KSW#1, that that was positive. management then could adapt.
It also showed me though that Scn was immoral, and deceptive, in that green new people had the right, and LRH boldly challenged that they have the right to quit fast if they are going to quit.
I thought that allowing people the right to quit fast was entirely correct. I agreed with LRH, and think even if he was sort of hyping how sure he was of himself, I still took him to being serious.
I think Scn is completely chameleon like due to LRH himself. His data series allows wide shifts back and forth, and in the end, to me, it tends to prove that orgs are all about stats.
And if orgs get too much stuck into stats, then admin scales are out, and if management can't revise and disseminate honestly, but management is constantly evaluating and doing whatever is pragmatic all the time, it just looks immoral.
Scn should be high principled, period. It's admin scale should be all about high principles, the highest possible, and revise and adapt to any higher principled stands that come up superior to Scn's rules.
LRH has made Scn unfixable in my opinion. Simply because LRH's whole mentality and outlook and rigid policies block smarter people from fixing LRH's goofs embedded in Scientology.
I think the only way one evolves, once one starts to step outside the Hubbard/Scn bubble world, is to eventually recognize LRH is the source of Scn's most serious problems.
Date Nov 17, 2006, Experts site, question and answer
["HS" asked Chuck Beatty the following, and Chuck answered]:
I am curious about the RPF. In my readings from various sources I have heard many stories about this place.
Members of the Church claim it is not a cult, and yet Scientology seems to have so many "punishments" for critical thinking or individuals reaching conclusions other than those prescribed by LR Hubbard, or now David Miscavige I guess.
From what I've learned, the RPF is an entire facillity dedicated to punishing members who have somehow fallen out of line, or merely have doubts about the validity of the (endless) training. I personally cannot see a need for such a place in any church. I'm interested in your opinion (along with others) about RPF.
Why are people sent there, what is a typical experience for those people, what are they expected to do or learn while there, and what is official explanation for the need for such a place?
Sorry if that's a lot of questions! but they're parts of the same overall thought, really.
Answer: I was in the Rehabilitation Project Force from July 1996 until March 2003, almost 7 years.
In 1997 new published policies for the RPF were issued.
The new rules in some ways were better. In some ways the rules got worse.
I've seen the new 1997 NOT followed to the letter. I've seen senior people just decide NOT to apply the 1997 rules.
There are exceptions.
The RPF has definitely NOT changed from its fundamental role.
From the Scientology viewpoint it is seen as a positive thing.
To outsiders, only the most liberal-open minded religious scholars who are familiar with even worse types of religious group behavior would rationalize and consider Scientology's Rehabilitation Project Force as something as glowing and good as the Scientologists do themselves.
I believe outside informed scholars do recognize some negative aspects of the RPF, to varying degrees.
It was not supposed to be a punishment, at least Hubbard so wrote. People were supposed to co-minister (co-audit) one another out of the dumps they had fallen into. And their days were split between menial tasks of cleaning and so forth, and the co-auditing of each other back to good graces within the Sea Organization.
There is an extensive auditing routine, one of the most major auditing routines that the RPF members do on each other is called the "Truth Rundown". Please search on the Internet, and you will find my detailed writings on the "Truth Rundown." The TRD is the candidate for being called the "mind control" procedure which bends a member's views BACK into alignment with the group's image of itself and it's so called "good guys" in the movement. The TRD takes up point by point, instances where the fallen member has said disparaging and supposedly false statements about other well-intentioned Scientology movement followers, and the RPF member is put through the TRD auditing procedure until the RPF member reverses their views and changes their tune about the persons they previously disparaged.
So there is blatant evidence, were it to be investigated fully, of instances of "mind control" and manipulation of a person's beliefs, and the TRD is admitted by all RPF members as being probably the most important auditing that they experience.
People who have done the TRD have mixed feelings. Those still in Scientology will praise it. Those OUT of the church will condemn the TRD to some degree possibly. I condemn it. I think it is wrong, I think it is psychological manipulation.
To understand the RPF and why people are assigned to it, you must read what Hubbard said are the grounds for sending a member to the RPF.
You will have a lot of reading to do, if you want to understand this is full.
In summary, a person gets assigned to the RPF because that person has messed up so severely that the Sea Org organization that that person is part of believes that that person should NOT remain on his post, but that the group is better to have that person go "redeem" themselves rather than continue in the group.
RPF assignment can be done unjustly, and in my opinion it is unjustly done so frequently, that the injustice of assignment creates a whole separate confusing problem.
If people were assigned to it correctly, there is the chance that it might be effective.
I think the problems of the RPF spread into the problems in the ineffectiveness of Hubbard's claims about the effectiveness of his auditing procedures, which I have since now moved to believe are placebo positive only.
I've concluded that the practice of Scientology isn't valid as a practice. So any of the auditing procedures that are supposedly supposed to redeem a fallen staffer (only lifetime staffers are sent to the RPF, only the Sea Org members go to the RPF), I don't believe auditing is what makes people better.
I think people just go through life, and moment by moment, decide to act better, on their own, due to their considerations lining up that let them decide to act better.
I think Scientologists buy into Hubbard's ideas and just take up and play the roles that Hubbard lays out for Scientologists, including the roles of being on the RPF, and doing what they need to do to play the roles of "redeeming" themselves and getting back to their posts in the Sea Org (lifetime staffer group).
I think it is all just human agreements that people agree to believe in, and there's nothing more to it than just agreements to Hubbard's words.
The "evidence" is what people learn and are conditioned to say about their accomplishments in their auditing.
People are trained basically, they figure out what to say, they figure out how to act, so as to become "redeemed."
I think it is just some long well learned conditioning that people do with one another, and some people decide to stick with the RPF and get through it, and can believe in it, and believe in what it is they learn what to say, so as to get through it successfully.
I wasn't able to, and I never really wanted to continue, so I was trying to get out, and I knew that the group wanted me to stay, and so I let the group do all the steps I thought they'd like to try to keep me to stay. I put up with a lot of "help" in the course of my almost 7 years of trying to leave the Sea Org.
I accepted doing lots of menial tasks, and I did lots of constructive work also. I worked on a farm for several years, which I really loved, loved all the hard manual work, field work, concrete work, demolition, animal feeding, fire break clearing of brush, all sorts of manual work, I just loved it all.
I liked the construction work I did in the large blue building in LA. I did a couple years construction work there, loved it.
I dislike the mind bending auditing. My whole belief in the Scientology cosmology collapsed, during my final auditing.
I read a lot of encyclopedia articles which are kept in the RPF training course rooms, and I used my outside world reality as my lifeline to pull myself OUT of the Scientology world belief system that is dominated by Hubbard's ideas, and Hubbard found NO fault with himself, and he found and placed fault at everyone else's doorstep except his own, and that is ultimately left.
The actual rules of the RPF are extensive.
You get about 7 1/2hours nightly of sleep. You can get more time, but everyone is woken up at 7 1/2 hours and we went to breakfast.
After breakfast we started the 5 hours a day auditing time. People had to train to do the co-auditing on each other, and a couple months of training is necessary to begin the co-auditing.
After 5 hours in the morning, of co-auditing, then the RPF members spend the rest of the day doing manual menial work or construction work.
At the end of the night the RPFers shower and go to their dormitories and go to sleep.
People are in rooms anywhere from 4 persons to 16 persons to a room. Some large dormitories have held as many as 36 persons.
Some RPFers act like sentries, and make sure their fellow members don't run away or escape. Escapes are bad, and one's fellow RPFers get in trouble, and the sentry also loses his job temporarily, if an RPFer is allowed to escape undetected.
It is like a minimum security prison setting, I believe.
No TV, no radio. No telephoning, except with authorized, and the persons superior to the whole RPF group physically monitors and listens in on the phone conversations to ensure no RPFers say or do things on the phone that the church considers harmful to the church or the church's image. Like RPFers can't call their parents and tell their parents to come help them escape, etc. Their phone call would be cut by the person who monitors the phone call.
An RPF cannot talk to regular staff unless spoken to first.
RPFers can't go off by themselves away from the RPF. One is confined to the RPF, to one's work job (manual menial work or the construction job).
No time off, except 1-2 hours on Sunday morning just to do a thorough cleaning of one's dormitory, and it's a group cleaning done each Sunday morning.
It takes overall at least a year to get through the RPF.
If someone starts taking over 5 years, they usually let the person leave the Sea Org altogether if the person wants to leave the Sea Org.
In my case they wished for me to stay in the Sea Org, so they let me drag on and on and on, trying to let me decide to stay in the Sea Org, but I just couldn't stay.
Most people they will let drag on for 3-5 years, and the daily pressure within the RPF is to stay and do the program.
The atmosphere internally is always hopeful. It is a sad sad unreality though, and people are not allowed to openly be honest about the sad fact that MOST of the people on the RPF for over 3-5 years will eventually LEAVE and NOT graduate the RPF. Most long term RPFers fail and leave the Sea Org.
Realize that it is NOT a typical prison type setting. The time on the RPF is flexible dependent on the person's desire and drive to get BACK into a position in the Sea Org.
The runway requirements to completing the RPF in the last 10 years have become quite lengthy, which is why it takes minimally a year nowadays to get through an assignment to the RPF.
One is expected to learn how to co-audit.
One co-audits other auditing routines as necessary, if you are not familiar with auditing, this is not the time to detail the other possible auditing routines.
Mainly the RPF is the co-auditing and the workforce work one does.
One addresses one's attitude and ideas that supposedly led one to fall from grace and be assigned to the RPF, and one is supposed to be revitalized and back ready to do one's Sea Org basic duties again, upon completion of all the RPF requirements. One does a massive administrative presentation in the end supporting one's achievement of changed attitude and evidence of one's auditing successes dealing with one's supposed attitude problems for which one was assigned to the RPF. Sort of like a presentation of how one's "case" was handled and one is now fit for Sea Org duty again.
When one's administrative paperwork presentation (it takes multiple bankers boxes of evidence) is approved by the higher up administrators in the Sea Org, one then gets 1 day off and then returns to their Sea Org organization and begins a new post as a revitalized Sea Org member.
I of course don't see things this way, but that was generally the intended and stated rough goal of the RPF.
I suggest you read through my posting on my life in Scientology to find other writings of mine about the RPF. I've extensively written about it elsewhere.
Ask any specific questions, we can go back and forth for as long as you like.
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