Chuck Beatty
Internet Posts, May 2005


From: ""
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: 2000 New Year's event behind the scenes flaps - Int Base
Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 08:28:18 -0700

[Here is some 4 year old news, but better late than never. Chuck Beatty]

"No, that's fine, Chuck. Go ahead."

[Any objections to me editing the below answer of yours, and posting it on ARS? Best, Chuck]

"Everyone at those echelons are pretty wired for weeks before IAS and then through Xmas. You earlier asked specifically what was a flap about the 1999/2000 New Years event. What happened was that DM wanted to make this the most spectactular event ever. There was a huge amount of videos produced.

"Gold was on all-hands and Exec Strata, CMO and RTC execs were constantly inspecting to make sure these videos got produced up to standard and in time. It was already a flap, since it was taking so long. So Xmas was a 1 hour dinner and that was it -- back to the videos. It was very tight, but finally everything came out and was going to be great. But from the very beginning of the event, there were flubs on the videos. This was from the very first video. The wrong videos would come up, they would come up at the wrong section and even when the very first one started off wrong, someone started running it backwards. So it showed LRH walking down a beach and then walking backwards up the beach. Think that alone would be a flap? But it continued just one after another. Staff were relieved whenever they saw one come up and run right. Most staff tried to lessen in their minds how bad it was. DM didn't show on stage that there was a problem. He just continued on.

"But right after the event it was very quiet among the staff and there was no New Years party afterwards as had been expected. Everyone knew it had just been a mess and the group as a whole was in for it. Gold had to scramble to make sure the event videos that were sent out were correct, but the event had been seen live by so many that there was definitely hell to pay. There have been some Sea Org days since, but there is not a consistency of "holidays" (after all, most of those are artificial holidays created by other religions and Sea Org day is only if the crew are "acting like Sea Org members") like earlier. One would think that if execs from the top on down could find correct why's, then it would have been corrected long ago, but it has not. There was not such a problem in the early 90s. It came later. Now it's not a problem as "time off" and things like that are just "other practices," "artificial," "only when earned," etc. If you know that you are saving the world, this all can ring quite true. You're only going through a brief moment in the millennia, one short life in an infinity of lives, one being among billons relying on truth being revealed before they can actually be happy (they might only THINK they are happy)."

[end of info]

[anonymous ex-Int Base staffer]


Any former Int Base staffers with things they wish people to know that they feel should be shared, contact me, I'll post it anonymously for you. Then it will be here for getting the history straight.

Whenever, and if, anyone ever goes to historically write up all the events of the top echelons of the official Scn movement, then at least later researchers and observers of the official Scn movement have "raw" info to sort through.

I'm asking for people who are coming out of the top ranks of the official Scn movement to provide me with ongoing info, as they wish, for history is all.

Best, Chuck Beatty
ex-Sea Org (1975-2003)
412-260-1170 (call after 9pm New York City time;
after 6pm LA time; after 5pm Denver time)

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: [email protected] - Find messages by this author
Date: 5 May 2005 21:15:18 -0700
Local: Fri,May 6 2005 12:15 am
Subject: Answers needed, recent former Int Base staff please answer

Questions for recent former Int Base staffers, which won't trace to anyone in particular. Answer if you can. Email or phone me, Chuck Beatty, or post on ARS.

chuckbeatty77, 412-260-1170.

1) Is Gold Pay full pay these days? Approximately how many weeks per year are NOT full pay?

2) Are CMO Int and Exec Strata execs getting any bonuses? When were they last getting bonuses?

3) Do RTC staff get bonuses? Have you ever heard of RTC staff ever not getting full pay?

4) Why aren't they moving to the berthing buildings? Are any staff going to move in, like are some RTC staff moving in?

5) How are Christmas and New Year handled now. It used to be that staff were given "org presents" that were fairly nice, and we spent a period of time in MCI together opening these presents, along with the secret santa type present that would be exchanged between two staff.

6) Is anyone getting libs? Any org getting libs, and which ones, and how frequently, these days?

7) Are phone calls all made by CSWing, and having someone from HCO listening in still? (Does this also apply to RTC staff, and execs, like CO CMO Int?

8) When was the last New Year's Party at a hotel in LA?

9) Has anyone, any groups, been orderd to "beans and rice" in the last 5 years?

10) What kind of cars are CMO Int using, Gold using, RTC using (the org cars)? Is there still a pecking order competition for car use?

Email or suggest any questions you'd also like to have asked.

Best, Chuck Beatty
ex-Sea Org (1975-2003)
412-260-1170 (call after 9pm New York City time;
after 6pm LA time; after 5pm Denver time)

From: ""
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: MSH has apparantly passed away. Info I received.
Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 11:06:31 -0700


"MSH has been dead for over 2 1/2 years! Go to this link & type in Hubbard Mary S & note the next to last record on the page:


"This record is definitely her as: MSH was from Texas, was 19 when she walked into the old Dianetics Foundation and last lived in the Los Feliz are near the complex (90027 ZIP). "

From: ""
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Thank you to Chuck Beatty and Tory, etc.
Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 21:01:32 -0700

Thanks Tory!

Thanks for repeating this vital info!

Especially the datum about the Unprofitable Images statistic, if L. Ron Hubbard's name is spelled out.

Until they stop the internet crap they pull, I think the ARS internet subterfuge deserves to be routinely exposed and summarized so that new people who come out of official Scientology movement who find and start reading ARS get the simple truth laid out about Bill Yaude and what he's been up to, and how you used to work with him, and what kinds of things they did and are still doing.

You Tory, are the ultimate best former internet operations insider to expose it. I totally agree that when your name comes up, you get petty slams.

You did it for years, and know all about it. Thankyou again for coming out and exposing it.

Note: Any official Scientology movement accomplices, please come forward and reveal your ongoing day to day tactics. Please call or email.

Best, Chuck Beatty
ex-Sea Org (1975-2003)
412-260-1170 (call after 9pm New York City time;
after 6pm LA time; after 5pm Denver time)

From: ""
To: "Zinj"
Subject: Re: New info from another former Int Base staffer,
Int Base details
Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 19:49:27 -0700

>Zinj wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>The point is this Chuck; not that the prisoners think that
>the razor wire is there to 'keep people out', but that it
>was constructed to keep people in.
> Nothing else.
> All you need to do to 'evaluate' that is look at the
>angle of the top razor wire.
> If it angles in; it's meant to keep people in.
> If it angles out, it's meant to keep people out.
> How hard is that?
> Zinj

I see that, but realize also, from the on-the-ground view Int Base staffers contemplating blowing, realize the top of the food chain dedicated Scientologists who are working at the Int Base, are generally bright in at least many respects, and escape, many know the "holes" in the fence and just faking being good for a while gets one the leash length to just blow the way this person, or another of the people I have been posting for.

Person by person, people see the wire in different ways.

Another reason that once we get mounds of former Int Base staff offering their thoughts, I believe you have to respect all views, including the view that the razor wire just looks concentration camp, and that is what wogs think. It is just offensive in any case, and all manner of opinions from insiders trying to escape who didn't think it was for them, to insiders, like me, who did think the wire was just a PR gesture to keep people out, because I myself know that after Tom Woodruff (in 1996) blew from his Int Finance Dir post, he chose the section of fence that was razor-wireless, and I helped with other deckees to prep the area so the Security Guards and their Int Base staff helpers could then put up the razon wire in the section that Tom blew over, so that to me is pretty supportive evidence of your view.

Again, I welcome ALL views, and to me, that is just the way it has to be. No matter how much we each think better of whatever someone else says. People's views simply are. They may not be "valid", but their views are whatever they end up being.

I like to get out all the raw info, the raw views of all the people there, who lived through it all, on the inside.

Best, Chuck

From: ""
To: "friendship"
Subject: Re: New info from another former Int Base staffer, Int Base details
Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 21:30:25 -0700

>friendship wrote:
> Very interesting post. I have questions below:
> snip
> If a couple decides that both want to leave and
>neither wants to leave without the other, wouldn't
>that be very difficult? And wouldn't extra
> precautions and security be implemented if one
>left and the other was suspected of wanting to leave?

Sure. Couples blow together, successfully.

I saw 2 couples even blow together from the Happy Valley RPF. One successfully made it out. The other couple got caught. I think if the persons are clever, anyone can escape these relatively LOW security precautions. The security precautions are more like minimum security prisons, from what little understanding I have of them. Many many many times, during the day, Sea Org members have opportunities to simply blow. If a Sea Org member (remember we are talking Sea Org, their lifetime staffers here) could pretty easily blow. This area just needs to be detailed, and from the people inside's views, people posting on ARS are often the type of ex Sea Org who in fact blew! So those people who blew can tell you how easy it is, physically, to blow.

Once you see Sea Org daily life day to day details, written up, how exactly things are, then you can visualize more realistically how easy it is to simply go around some corner in a hall way, undetected, out of view, race to a stairwell, go hide somewhere temporarily, or not, and simply choose a path out of the building, through one of the exits (or at the Int Base, just slip home to the outside berthing apartments, because the berthing apartments where the bulk of the hundreds of Int Base staffers live are miles from the Int Base, and staff are bused to and from these wog apartment complexes to the Int Base and back daily. In any of the Sea Org orgs in LA, there is no stopping anyone just walking out, and blowing, at any time, realistically. Even with the hundreds of damn cameras, realize the buy watching the doors is not necessarily always watching the right screen, and the number of doors is just way way way too many, for instance at the complex (big blue). At the HGB they got only 2 doors, so that's tighter. And the Anthony berthing building where staff stay, there are ways the HGB staffer could blow at night, undetected it he had half a brain, or in the morning, before getting on the bus, to go to work, or when getting off the bus, etc., there are just dozens of moments, during the week when staffers at any LA Sea Org org could easily blow.

Same at Int realistically, for the staff in good graces. Even an Int Base staffer "in trouble", for instance when an Int Base staff has "blow" thoughts that become known to his fellow staffers, he is NOT allowed to go home to the outside apartment berthing with his fellow staffers, but is made stay in the OGH area of this photograph:

Okay, so if you're bad at Int, and told you can't go home to berthing, that is a mean swipe at one, it means you are in the the shits. Okay, in that situation, if one happened to be contemplating "blowing" even from the confinement now of the Int Base, then indeed, no one really disputes that the razor wire looks like a barrier to getting out.

Okay, so if one is confined to sleeping at night in one of the buildings in the OGH area (see photo, the white building are roughly what I'm talking about, just below the OGH label on that photo, here it is again:

Even though you are confined, you still can escape. So many have done it, it is a flap, but it is still pretty easy.

The security guards sort of keep tabs on you, ensure they watch you walk from the OGH area over to the building you work in, and to MCI, for breakfast, in the morning, Security are friendly, they're gregarious guys, and it's their hat to chat with you to see where you are at. They chat and get the feel of what is up with you, since they are not always told the details of why you got put over at OGH, but Security will chat and be reassuring, always being nice. I could NEVER complain in all my years at the base about any of the security guards, they are all damn sociable people, good roads, good weather, never challenging, especially if you are "in the shits".

So you play it cool, get back in good graces, play friendly, and your moment will arrive when you got the opening to blow. There is just no preventing it. You get back in good graces, and you get to go home, and then you blow while under the cover of some blunder of the "watch" at your berthing building. The building "watch" person has to go to the bathroom, there are moments they fall asleep, you can always jump out first windows, jump walls, etc., and get out. Some times, on Saturday morning, you can simply blow during your cleaning time, and if your org is allowed liberties, you can blow on your liberty, your day off. You can blow when there are big events, and everyone is bused to the various event buildings. There are dozens and dozens of opportunities daily to blow, if you are of the mind, and simply get over the mental hurdles.

Also at the Int Base, should one be confined to the OGH area, one's name goes to the guard booth, as a person NOT allowed to berth temporary at "home" (the outside berthing apartements), and if one has to sleep in one of the buildings or trailer buidlings over in the OGH (Old Gillman House, Gillman owned Gillman Hot Springs, which is the resort that the COS bought and transformed into the Int Base, Golden Era Studios, etc.). Now, one can still blow the confinement there at the Int Base also, even when one is sort of in the dog house, and staying at the OGH area at night. There are moments, during the week, when you can slip out. It may take some observation and planning, but moments arise.

On the PAC RPF, blowing is easily accomplished actually, there are hundred of times daily one could simply run out of the building out of any of the several dozen exits (and RPFers get to use all the exits in their many many travels throughout the complex buildings).

While I was on the PAC RPF, I could have blown every day, just slip out, I could have done it hundreds of times in any day. In all cases, I could not figure out how to take my belongings. Once you blow, and you are SERIOUS about NOT coming back, then you are catapaulted into the "SP" category instantly. You get an immediate handling, Security Guards will try to contact you, your staff in your org will try to contact you, and your spouse and family members in good standing in the church will be used to contact you. That part was tough for me to face.

I just didn't even try to face it, thus I took the "standard" route of doing the "Leaving Staff" procedure, the "routing out" procedure. Then I could take my stuff easily.

Many husband and wife couples have blown, and will continue to blow in the future.

> Also, I imagine that lower level staff who are considered
>of marginal value would be able to leave easier than staff
>on very sensitive posts. In other words, do any of you
>have any evidence of there being more restrictions placed
>on staff would could be more of a liability to
> management if they left? I think back to the affidavit
>that Stacy Young made where she claimed that she was
>imprisoned against her will and that it took quite a
>while for her to figure out how to escape.

Yep. Sensitive people, I have heard, get special attention. Annie Broeker when she blew, flew to Florida, was intercepted at the Florida airport, I read somewhere, and persuaded back.

I've heard firsthand of Mark Yager and Ray Mitoff personally working to get higher up Int Base staffers who had blown "recovered". The lingo used is "recover" a blown staffer.

The whole subject is mind-numbing for long term Sea Org staffers. Over the years you hear the skinny (rumors) about almost every blow that occurs, and the attempted "recovery".

For instance, every day, every staffer of every Sea Org org has 3 musters a day. A muster is where you all stand in lines, in your little subunit, per the L. Ron Hubbard organizing board (the administrative pattern for each church). Roughly here's how it goes.

You stand there milling around until the exact moment the muster is called, usually the starting time, like 9am, morning muster. You mill around just before muster and then just before the exact moment of 9am, you shuffle into line, do the fake standing at attention, similar and copying the regular military standing at attention. Then people missing are reported missing, and in every case a person is either "accounted for" or "not accounted for". The people "not accounted for" get chased up AFTER the muster.

So, within your little sub-unit, after the muster, one of your subunit goes looks up the missing staffer, and that's when any "blows" are first discovered. So 3 times a day, all staff are checked to see they are "accounted for".

Then if the person is "not accounted for" then the ethics department goes hunting, and usually takes someone from that blown staffer's unit too, to go search, phone relatives, etc., etc.

So if a Sea Org member doesn't show up for a muster, and is NOT accounted for, then they go start looking for you, etc., etc.

In the RPF, depending on how trustworthy you are, which translates to "not having any 'blow' thoughts recently", you get to run around by yourself, or sometimes with one or another person, who all basically are trusting of each other, and realisticallly at any moment, you could easily just slip out of sight of your fellow RPFers, and you might not be missed for minutes or until the next muster. RPFers all have their 3 or 4 musters every day, and each night in the RPF dorms I ever lived in, the RPF dorms were checked, bed by bed, to ensure each bed was filled and the person doing the checking was another RPFer designated to do that duty (a sort of slack off easy goddamn job), so that anyone slipping out of their bed in the dead of night could be noticed. Dorms I was in on the RPF got checked once per hour at nights, (I was last in an RPF dorm in Dec 2002, and then I got my very own full time "buddy"/"watch" and I got my very own room to sleep in, this in my final "recalcitrant" stage.)

Okay, enough of that. Unless you want more details.

In EVERY Sea Org unit I worked in, my whole 27 years, EVERY unit, there were 1-5 blows per year. That would be a statistic the official Sea Org will not wish known, but which could be assembled from the offered stories of those that have blown the Sea Org.

We'd just need to set up a computer site, and have people simple give their name, the Sea Org org they blew from, and what date. Sometimes after a Sea Org member is recovered (remember all the time while I discuss this, that I am only discussing Sea Org members "blowing", sometimes students and org parishioners "blow" also in certain contexts when students or paying preclear public decide to refuse to abide by orders by church staffers that the students or paying preclear public STAY and continue their service at that church, and the students or paying preclear public just refuse and leave "in the middle" of their church "services"), but on the computer site, we'd have to specify if the person signing in was staff or public, and then we could just bypass the official Sea Org lack of making public all the "blows" by Sea Org, regular staffers in regular Scientology churches and missions, and blows by students and preclears. If we got everyone to answer, the numbers would be staggering I am sure.

> >
> > "Regarding the other anonymous poster's remark that
> > Skeet (Clarence) Thomas was at the Pac Base doing
> > renos org projects and was there because of some
> > flap, does this poster know if he is still there
> > or if they managed to get out? He and his wife
> > Tammy were dear friends of mine and I would love
> > to hear if they are doing okay, if they are out.
> > Does this anonymous poster recall the problems
> > surrounding their wedding ceremony on "The Ship"
> > (on-base)?"

Another person came forward to confirm Skeeter (not "Skeet")(and his real name is "Clifford" and goes by the name of "Clif" also) Thomas IS still working as the "Installation I/C" he installs the finished cabinets into the Sea Org buildings around LA, mainly the complex. He IS remarried to Myriam Bright. His former wife, Tammy Thomas Holquin was on the Int RPF up to 2000, and in the end of 2000 Tammy went with a group of about 10 ex-Int Base RPFers from the Happy Valley RPF, they all were "reprieved" (a good thing in my view, I thought the reprieves were definitely the right thing to do to put to use these valuable longterm Sea Org members) and this 10 man or so group reno'd the New York Org for a couple years, and Tammy remarried John Thomas (the guy whose face is on the back cover of the latest version of the Introduction to Scientology Ethics book, he's the guy sitting in the witness box in that photo/art picture on the back cover). John Thomas was on the Int RPF with Tammy and John was amongst the 10 reprieved to go to New York, CLO EUS, to help do the renos of New York Org.

Chuck Beatty
ex-Sea Org (1975-2003)
412-260-1170 (call after 9pm New York City time;
after 6pm LA time; after 5pm Denver time)

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: [email protected] - Find messages by this author
Date: 13 May 2005 22:55:20 -0700
Local: Sat,May 14 2005 1:55 am
Subject: Gotta a phone call from a polite but pissed Scientologist today - Chuck Beatty

Tonight, 11pm, Pittsburgh time, I got a phone call from a polite but pissed Scientologist calling from a restaurant, as there were lots of people talking like in a bar or restaurant, in the background.

His name was Hayward ...., didn't catch the last name.

He wanted to complain about my site (the one with all my accumulated internet posts):­eatty77/

I hung up on him, I don't like to argue, and prefer to discuss things in writing, since I can choose my words, think my thoughts out better. One of the reasons I felt auditing would never work really for me, is that I don't get a chance to answer auditing questions, and never felt fulfilled even by the procedure of auditing. (In other words, I felt, probably like people who write books, that just talking is not as fulfilling, as writing. I far prefer to get the chance to say fully what I want, in writing.)

No one is obligated to read my posts, at my site.

I can intellectually defend them. I have a site meter, and not that many people actually read my site.

I have only about 120 maximum hits at my site per week, and some weeks I get less than 30 hits.

So I hope this guy relaxes.

And other people, don't worry.

Only experienced Sea Org members and Scientologists would even grasp what I am talking about.

Faithful will not be harmed.

The faithful should not be reading what "SPs" write anyways, and I suppose since I pat the "SP" critics on the back for their work, that makes me imaginarily guilty of committing daily, almost, "SP" acts.

Also, if faithful wish to counter, and write in detail about the benefits and wins and so on in their lives, as things go along, daily, the great things they experienced, their unique viewpoints on life, and out civilization, about how really truly the dwindling spiral of the whole universe is being finally reversed, go ahead.

I think as a side note, though, that official Scientologists have a sort of muzzled mindset, thinking they might need official church okay to publish anything about their Scientology lives, and that is unfortunate. Free Zone Scientologists would not have that type of group or self-muzzling successfully ever agreed to by them.

The self muzzling mindset of Scientology, which I think this Scientologists wishes me to revert to adhering to, to me, it wholly out of step with mankind's freedom belief and freedom of expression tradition.

It reflects badly back on official Scientology when their members and church officials try tactics to muzzle people speaking their minds about their lives and Scientology experiences.

It recoils, because mankind will never submit to that type of thought muzzling, and L. Ron Hubbard was wrong on this and many other points of his doctrines, and the world will simply never submit to LRH's ideas. There is a fundamental clash, and LRH tried to get around it, but the clash is there.

The world IS freer in the area of speech and writing, compared to the official Scientology church is with its members.


I don't plan to go back under the yoke of suppressed communication I existed under, while I was part of the official Scientology religious movement.

When intelligent wogs view this issue, they make mincemeat out of LRH and official Scientology.

The only effective muzzling the Scientology movement has been able to enforce, is internally with their members, or externally when they entered into a legal contracts after which some individuals chose to abide by certain things.

My advice to official Scientology members, is please don't try to do things that recoil, and make official Scientology out of step with mankind's much longer more sensible been/there---done/that traditions of allowing free speech and freedom of expression.

Official Scientology guys only keep the bad image that is pretty seriously stuck to official Scientology in place, when they try to limit people talking about their Scientology experiences.

Don't do it, official Scientology guys. It doesn't help your cause.

Just do the things your members love, and spread your successes, good works well publicized. Just do what people like and enjoy.

People are allowed to do things others benefit by.

Trying to shut others up, when people are expressing their opinions and their life experiences, is not one of things mankind likes to associate with the good guys.

If official Scientology members want to be the good guys, they will do good guy stuff, and not try to go around shutting up people.

Official Scientology needs to lose the things LRH did not survey on mankind, and the LRH rules that went about muzzling people, the Guardian's Office and today's OSA office tactics try to shut up people, just works so to official Scientology's disadvantage.

Let people talk! More intelligent people will see the faults in whoever is speaking.

In May-Jun 1975, I spent several hours a day for several weeks, reading all the BAD horrible then accumulated wog magazine press on Scientology, in the Arizona State University Library. I read everything they had. I heard all the smears.

Still I stuck with Scientology (another 27 years) and all the bad press, I just filed, and I went ahead and read most of LRH's books, all the OEC policy in the old and new OEC volumes, etc. over my years in Scientology.

The negative stuff didn't deter me from getting in.

I wanted to find out for myself, and I assumed the high high spiritual states existed, since other practises mentioned them.

I concluded what I concluded, and I've written my opinions.

I'm glad a Scientologist just couldn't restrain himself and he just called me.

I think though, that he won't be happy until my communication my thoughts, that I have posted, and then put all in a row, on my internet site, now he wants me to get rid of my site.

What does that say. That is not human tradition.

People write about their lives, people express their opinions.

I want people who want to write their lives and opinions to be able to do so.

I noticed that that does not seem to be the case, as ARS and Clambake have had a definite lack of higher echelon people posting, and the reason I think is due to the muzzling tactics the movement has engaged in.

Official Scientology isn't going to advance in the current western civilization setup unless they drop the objectionably anti-free speech stuff and act, honestly, more like the normal decent people who I have met who are "Free Zone" Scientologists.

The David Mayo tapes I heard of David talking, now that is how official Scientology church atmospheres should be like. I am sure there were faults in the David Mayo facilities, in various other respects, but at least David was NOT into muzzling dissent, and the ongoing objectionable tactics official Scientology then did for the next couple decades after David shut down.

I agree with Arnie Lerma's list of steps, the particular step I think, is the one when a ex-Scientologist comes to realize that Scientology before 1966 was more the correct atmosphere, and that the Sea Org harshness, etc., was a wrong direction.

I agree on that, now. Historically, I agree the Sea Org seems to have done the movement some harm due to the Sea Org, Guardian's Office actions and OSA's followup actions today, have caused an embedded recoiling bad image for the official Scientology movement.

That's my view, what can I say.

I don't agree with the "SP" doctrines, and think that official Scientology should actually drop them, and act like the Free Zone Scientology people who are just far nicer people, the ones who have cummunicated to me, who are Free Zone, are sort of like the nice people I consider nice people in the official Scientology movement.

Isn't that ironic!

The nice Free Zone Scientologists are not apt to ram some opinion down my throat, and I appreciate that. I respect them, since they have retained and exemplify, in my opinion, their inherent goodness individually as people.

To me, it is the unfortunately wrong ideas of LRH's that hamper the official Scientology movement people, and not merely the harshness, or style or character of the movement's top executive, DM.

That's just my opinion. Of course to official movement, these opinions are sacrilege, and that's why I am not inside supporting them any longer.

I hope they drop the things that the world finds objectionable.

I bet if they did some PR surveys for what the public doesn't like about Scientology, and did those things real, and dropped insisting on doing the things LRH said to do, drop the publicly objectionable things, that they'd do a lot better.

I get normal conversation from Free Zone Scientologists.

Official Scientology members have lost sight of the way normal humans converse.

Be nice, be kind.

If some official Scientologists wish to converse with me, please send me something in writing, so I can respond, point by point.

One thing I hate about verbal conversation with someone (like Int and PAC RPF MAAs and others in recent years) is that I get my comm cut, and am not allowed to finish my thoughts. My objections during conversations, I'd forget, and only a month or so later, would I remember my train of thought that was smothered by the preemptive communication thrust at me in long defensive spoken speeches, and then weeks or months later, in private, by myself, my objections would surface.

I've found that writing, learning regular word vocabulary, getting my vocabulary and reading up, now I can express myself.

I encourage all who wish to discuss their lives in Scientology, who want to write, to not feel paranoid and worry about retaliation. That is wrong, and the world does not agree with that. You should be able to speak freely about your thoughts about Scientology and your life in the movement, and what you think now, and whatever you wish to say. If people say ridiculous things, they will either hear about it, or be ignored.

In my opinion, LRH had such a stubborn attitude, he made the rules around him to fit what he wished the world to be like, and my opinion is that the world is NOT the way LRH thinks it is. And I don't think he nor official Scientology are correct in enforcing their idea about freedom of speech, on the world, not if the world does not want those ideas. In my opinion the world does not want the official Scientology movement's self- muzzling atmosphere to be the atmosphere that prevails in the world.

Those who wish to add to the details of live in these first 6 decades of the official Dianetics and Scientology movement, I see nothing wrong with writing up one's thoughts and one's experiences.


If anyone wants to read all my ARS posts in context and in date sequence, use this link: q=author:[email protected]&start=0&scoring=d&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&c2coff=1&

Best, Chuck Beatty
ex-Sea Org (1975-2003)
412-260-1170 (call after 9pm New York City time;
after 6pm LA time; after 5pm Denver time)

From: ""
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Free Zone ex-official Scientologists helping, thoughts. Chuck Beatty
Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 10:36:50 -0700

I sent the following to an ex-official Scientology movement person who wrote me recently.

I have only had respectful, decent conversations from the so- called "Free Zone" (ex-official Scientology movement persons) in the last 9 months since I have come out publicly and started posting my 27 year Scientology lifetime staffer experiences.


******** "I got a person off drugs recently using the Tech, I must confess I have mixed feelings but people come to me for auditing and I use it more as a proffession than as a religion, I have another PC that came from AA and I did LR (Life Repair) and she said I saved her life, go figure!"

Excellent. I have NO disagreement with anyone doing what they consider good, and what the people receiving the help felt was good too! I applaud you and anyone who does help and fully acknowledge that people can be helped by LRH's Scientology techniques, as that is what people say. That cannot be denied. I fully respect people's ideas, whichever way the people believe things are occuring, and in whichever way people describe them. It is all part of accepting one's fellow man's views in life. I accept and applaud you for your help, and I am happy for those you helped, and am grateful you still do help others and that those others appreciate your help. Excellent!

************"But I am not trying to convince you is godd, blah, blah, blah, it helps some people and to that degree is good. I think everything done to the extremes is dangeorus, including Scn. And I am a Cl 8! I think Scn can be harmful like alcohol if taken way too much..."

I agree, I have found that Free Zone, or ex-official Scientologist applying the tech, and doing what they feel is right for the people they help, THAT IS SO IMPORTANT. That to me is why anyone is helped. I think it is the basic GOOD intentions of the people trying to help, and committed to sticking through and HELPING someone, almost secondary is the philosophy. I have seen really that sort of the mystical concept of "intention", and in this case it is "good intention" that is the overriding factor in my opinion, that good results in helping another human being comes about.

I commented yesterday on Clambake, that ironically the Free zone, or ex-official Scientologists who are carrying on and doing LRH's tech, are to me, in my opinion, and you are an example of this, all these ex-official Scientologists are to me just like what I consider the existing GOOD people in the official Scientology movement. Meaning the well-intentioned people, inside and outside, are the same. They are just good, well-meaning people.

I think it is just the trick or artificial barriers of other ideas and words which make us, or anyone, sort of forces us to "choose sides", but it is almost like the artificial barriers that guide people into combat against each other, like nation to nation. Each nation has fine well-intentioned people, and still they are somehow otherwise with other doctrines and words led into "fighting" or "combatting" one another.

I think the tricksters are the people who do not sometimes see the later on down the road ramifications of their strong use of words and rules and doctrines from their high unquestioned positions in groups they have risen to the top of, and the "leaders" words and directions in turn force artificial groupings that cause temporary battles, that are just unecessary, and wrong, longer range in history. There are patterns, I see, at least I think I see, that go throughout history, due to leaders NOT being ultimately good leaders, and NOT taking into account the full ramifications of their actions and choices. LRH made some serious long range incorrect decisions, from his positiion of power as the sole decider of serious matters in the Scientology movement. Those incorrect decisions are hitting the official Scientology movement in the teeth.

I respect anyone inside or outside the official Scientology movement who is intending good things and trying to assist and help their fellow man. Again, I feel the goodness that LRH allowed people to employ one to the other, that you agree with and use, GREAT! Continue having success and helping people who appreciate it!

I think its the rules that are not broad enough to include, and rather exclude good people who are doing good things. And it is the rules which when employed by the official church which recoil harmfully on official Scientology's image, and the simple solution is for the official Scientology movement to do PR surveys, isolate what the intelligent public does NOT like about what the official Scientology movement is doing, and phase out all those things.

So even though I don't wish to engage in Scientology tech, I do respect anyone inside or out who is helping their fellow man in whatever way their fellow man appreciates.

Best, Chuck Beatty
ex-Sea Org (1975-2003)
412-260-1170 (call after 9pm New York City time;
after 6pm LA time; after 5pm Denver time)

From: ""
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: More info, back and forth with an Ex Int Base staffer - Chuck Beatty
Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 02:10:33 -0700

[The following is a back and forth email between me and an Ex Int Base Staffer. Lots of stuff. Sorry some is real Int Base specific, if people want to email me clarifying questions, please do so. It's long! Sorry. Chuck Beatty]

[NOTE: to higher former Int Base execs and staffers, higher up types, please come forward, particularly ex-CMO Int, ex-Exec Strata. People who've sweated and lived the LRH advices for the base, please come forward and email me. To those people who were even higher on the food chain, these meager posts I am trying to get out in recent months about the Int Base atmosphere, are just the tips of many icebergs. See the end for how to contact me with any info you wish to share. Thanks]


Ex-Int base staffer:
Do you really think that this "improved image" campaign that DM seems to be on will last, or is it just a phase, like so many other phases. My concern is that it will be the usual PR bullsh*t on the outside and possibly a lessening of harassment techniques to ex-members and nay sayers, but that the inside program will remain the same, with people being intimidated, made to feel like they are unproductive, unworthy, and full of O/Ws, when they are, as you say, likely some of the most dedicated and sincere people in this movement.

Chuck Beatty
My take is that DM is a human being, and inevitably he reacts as all of us do, and as people do in history. I see a huge change personally, in the last decade.

The silence of ex-Int Base staffers I think mainly is due to NO huge face-ripping, to DM's lack of chopping people up to peices. It is much much milder than the times in the early 80's when he ran around hitting people, spitting on them, etc. [In otherwords, if horrendous things were happening, there'd be dramatic blows and really BAD news would leak out, my opinion.]

I think that difference, the fact that so many pretty top people drift OUT of the top ranks, (Grady's, Gamboa's, dozens of people over the nineties, Jesse Prince himself left in the 90's, Mike Eldridge and Penny, Bruce Bromley, the many dozens more I can't think of at the moment, etc.), I see the reaction of those left of slight sadness and that those leaving withstood quite a bit of shit.

I think the worst days of overt physical abuses of staff are long gone. No more chain lockers, no more actually people being forcedly locked up. It is not as frequent.

If they did do those things, then there'd be people coming out and complaining, believe me, as the people did in the late 60's and early 70's when the worst of the worst was happening on the ship, the Apollo.

In my opinion, things are unquestionably historically much much lighter than the ridiculously abusive things that went on the Apollo, and up to about 1982.

The public backlash has made its impact on DM and he can be laid low with just a quick factual statement that he is guilty of spitting and physically hitting, punching, pushing, threatening staff. That is a serious serious condemnatory image which he, in my opinion, has tried to move away from, and not only with PR, but he also from what I have heard, uses his intensity, but isn't physical anymore. [Exception is the most recent ex-Int Base staffer who detailed how DM had Rinder body slammed in the late 90's or possibly closer to present time.]

Ex Int base staffer
One thing I want to emphasize here, for those who are not familiar with the psychological tactics that are used at the Int Base and throughout the SO, is that even if DM is resorting to less and less physical attacks, and relying more on "his intensity," meaning, his intense stare and few words, designed to provoke a reaction, or to "expose" someone who has "missed withholds" by making them uncomfortable, these are still psychological tactics. When you put a person, or for that matter a whole org into a state of constant self-reflection and fear by telling them constantly that somehow they are "off-purpose" or that they are "counter-intention" you are setting them up for a fall, purposefully. Anyone who has had children knows that if you cause the child to reflect on all the things that he has done wrong in the past, and focus his attention on all the bad choices that he MAY make in the future, by extrapolation, he will make bad choices. And he will likely suck up to you and eventually turn into what you referred to as "cowed sycophant" who will fawn and dote and say "yes your Grace" every time you punish or scold him. He may adopt the idea that you are doing that "for his own good." This isn't healthy and doesn't create self-determined beings. It creates beings that can be controlled by tugging on their short and curlies, or at least the ones they were willing to show you. Sea Org staff are controlled by a seemingly (to outsiders) meaningless concept of reality whereby they are a detriment to the group if they experience the very human emotions of doubt, insecurity, selfishness (which is on a different scale in this group: You can be considered selfish if you want to spend time with your kids or spouse.) etc. These are all human frailties, that, once demonstrated to the group turn you into "ethics bait" and start a vicious cycle of ethics and "conditions" that seemingly for some, never ends. You live in demeaning and degrading conditions and work ridiculously long hours and are scolded constantly to keep you on track, and still you are a hinderance to the group? If this goes on long enough (like telling POWs in Viet Nam that their food was poisoned, even though they were starving and the food lay in front of them) it will create a "psychotic break" and they will act nuts. I noticed while reading the posts on some of these sites that ex-staff finally came to the conclusion that their "PTS situation" was created by the Scn people who were controlling them, be it at Int or org level, instead of by family members or ex-lovers, or whatever, as they were led to believe earlier. There are a lot of staff who had never been touched or breathed on even, by COB, yet still they look away, walk quickly past him, take a different route etc. all in an attempt to avert his focus, and why? Because of psychological tactics.

Chuck Beatty:
So the next round of criticism I feel, is getting those who have witnessed and experienced his current version of "applying just enough force to counter the out-ethics intentions" of his minions, selectively, as he does this, to set examples of what he considers gross out-ethics, suppressive, etc., whatever his actual current "bullying" or enforcing tactics he uses are, I think they need to historically be laid out, and unquestionably from what I have heard, things seem actually long range still better, even though I recently got word he body slammed or had Mike Rinder body slammed in 1998, or even closer to present time. My source was sketchy and I didn't feel I had the right to question details.

Ex Int Base staffer:
The very concept of "out-ethics intentions" to me, is very similar in practice to the Christian dogma that "we are all sinners" and that save for Jesus the Christ coming to redeem us, we would all surely rot in hell. Saying that someone had bad intentions that need to be audited out is often stating that they existed from birth (or before) and doesn't often acknowledge that a bad situation created the ill-will and intentions. I'm sure that the first time many people met Adolph Hitler they didn't despise him (maybe pitied him for his bad fashion sense) but that after his reign of fear, many wished him dead. Do they need to be audited?

Also, DMs apparent trend of gleefully announcing old-time key execs as "suppressive" has just gone too far. I really don't feel that smart-ass remarks from MY are a sign of suppressive tendencies any more than I believe that staff who have had enough bullshit and decide to leave the base are "suppressive." Hitler was not misunderstood, as Pat Buchanon and Arnold would like us to believe, he was "suppressive" (if you want to use that term). Staff who have been worked like horses, told that they are off-purpose if they want to spend time with their families, have meals with their children, sleep in the same room as their spouses and get time off, and who finally say f*ck it and leave, are simply not "suppressive." Also, I think you are right to correct yourself in your sentence above whereby you stated that "DM... had Mike Rinder body slammed..." as he simply isn't the man to do it. What would have been the purpose of that? And the result? That's a funny one.

Chuck Beatty:
But yes, DM has already lightened up compared to his early 1980's. We need some actual incidents if things are not different.

Second, I think DM learns by osmosis from the wog world, he learns what is unacceptable in the wog world and what of the things he is doing and pushing, he is slowly learning which of those things make Scn completely unacceptable to wog opinion leaders who cannot come on board in support or who do NOT wish to ally themselves with Scn in any way. Wog OLs(opinions leaders) find things about Scn and the way DM operates which are totalitarian and offensive to good human behavior.

DM I think, responds. His whole campaign to get staff to recognize his compassion, his "care", I mean RTC staff syncophantly (and earlier ASI staff) pushed DM's "care" attitude down staff's throats. Like DM is the only one who REALLY cared, like the time he ordered Gold to be paid, when they'd not been paid for months, and the FBO Gold, Paul Schroer ended up getting busted in the months that followed that. Like you or another ex-Int Base staffer told me, the whole "we are worthless beaten down staff" attitude, the story goes that DM is trying to get Gold out of that.

Ex-Int Base staffer:
I don't personally buy that COB didn't know that Gold wasn't getting paid and that he somehow found out accidentally because his steward was crying as she served him his lunch one day. How could he not know that the largest org on the base, the people who serve him his food, maintain his cars, clean his dishes, guard him, etc. were not being paid? Sounds like just a ploy to act as the "benevolent leader" who comes to the rescue.

As far as the "beaten down staff" attitude goes, I remember from the Saturday briefings where COB did most of the beating. Saying that DM is trying to get Gold to move on from that is like saying that you can scold and beat a dog for years, and then turn around and praise it and expect it to do anything than cower and piss on the floor. I just think that at a certain point, Gold Execs took the whip out of RTC and CMOI's hands and started self-flagellating, which allowed COB to step back and say he's trying to rehabilitate them and get them to move out of this self-flagellation mode. I agree with you that DM is not the one to do it if it is to be done. But he will likely use it to his advantage, like I said before "benevolent leader" bs, since he is so intensely aware of his PR situation at every moment. I don't trust people who are too very concerned about the way they appear to others, because I feel, their responses are scripted (even if only in their heads) and their words carefully considered before being uttered, and therefore are more likely to be false. As far as the "angel" which should go around and "undo" the abuses on the base without being countered in any way, I feel that some staff at lower levels believe that if any corruption is actually happening at the Int level (AND IT IS FOLKS!) that LRH policy is that "angel." I have read it in the posts where people who have not experienced this treatment firsthand look to LRH policy as the guiding light that will lead the misguided Int execs out of the forest. They should read the more ascerbic and sinister LRH advices to see where "Source" weighs in on some of these staff abuse trends. He started most of them! Do you know if there is a compilation anywhere on the outside that shows the "evil" side of LRH in his more abusive and militant mode? (Does "evil-LRH" have a goatee?) That would be an eye opener for sure, but then many would probably try to discredit them as "squirrel" or fraudulent. My other feeling about this "angel" stepping in is that sometimes execs see their comrades getting carried away, and step in to mitigate the damage. This has happened to me on a number of occasions, and I notice that depending on the "weight" of that exec, meaning his standing on the Base, in relation to COB, etc. they are allowed to step in and do that with no bad PR ramifications for the other exec, and people believe that this isn't a sign of overbearing or unjust punishment, but is actually just an "overworked exec" blowing off steam at an out-ethics staff who may not have earned the overboard handling, but likely "deserved it." How many times have I heard that phrase "he/she deserved it." and I've even read it in posts.

Chuck Beatty:
This other Int Base staffer totally bought this attitude, it is internal base PR in favor of DM, lots of executive level minded staff buy this type of PR, that DM is trying to get people back from being cowed synchopants. To me, this undercurrent think that supports DM in his attempts to get people being more effective, I think unfortunately more likely proves your point that things are so deeply wrong that a guy like DM, and I think with DM's personal hands-on abusive history abusing personally so many Int Base staff, he's just not the right guy to pick up the peices and try to correct the decades of mistakes. In my opinion he has to have a base ESTO, RTC level, who knows and applies without any intervention LRH's lighter policies and tech, and has the authoritiy to instantly undo injustices and staff abuses on the base, without being countered in any way. Sort of a roving angel to undo the abuse. Some one roaming on a scooter (what was the old scooter type they execs used to ride around on like a fad for years and years).

Ex-Int base staffer:
As I recall it, the RTC execs and CO CMOI rode red Honda scooters and other CMOI staff and some Gold Execs, (did Guillaume ever ride one?) rode little blue and white ones. Security also rode scooters until they got their huge KLM bikes didn't they? Amazing what you remember when someone brings up an obscure reference.

Chuck Beatty:
I agree he keeps any players from coming in from the side to really inject the movement with some sanity. In summary, I agree, and I feel that LRH is the ultimate culprit, due to LRH's parameters for the official movement. DM is executing, with DM's own brand of "king of the moutainism" and "I'm the boss, you listen or you are toast" , DM has the reigns of power, and the result is what we got.

But since I am not being harrassed, others are not being harrassed, Dan Garvin is the most biggest person I expected to get harrassment, the facts are they are simply not doing what they used to do.

Ex-Int base staffer:
At this point, I'm worried more about staff who are in, who are treated badly and feel they cannot do anything about it. They are losing so much of their lives and many don't want to be there, but are afraid to commit the thought-crime of thinking of a way to leave.

Chuck Beatty:
April Hall blew and NO ONE CONTACTED her to try to get her back. Gary Hunter just blew 2 months ago, and NO BIG salvage operation.

Ex-Int base staffer:
Fantastic! Good for them. April always had "balls." I liked her.

Chuck Beatty:
No, things are lightening up, and I think any slipups, any return to abusive, overtly silencing tactics that the wog world repulsively rejects, the official Scn movement is cooling it on doing the things the wog world hates.

Ex-Int base staffer:
"My concern is that they will spend thousands with their PR firm and atty's trying to create a positive image, and because the majority of people aren't logging onto these "safe" sites, the media will be won, and the harassment will spring up again, once they think they have a safe footing in the public eye. What's your take on this?"

Chuck Beatty:
He plays the role of spokesman, ultimate spokesman for official Scn, and plays within the boundries of the last advices from LRH. When he was COB ASI he had about 30-80 personal advices from LRH. All had to do with LRH's business dealings, investments, personnel at ASI, production of ASI altogether, and LRH's bright ideas for things he wanted ASI to do with his "special properties".

LRH did not have much to say in summary form in the 1980's advices about how to run the whole ball of wax. The 1982 strat planning advices are the really last bits of advice. LRH expected his leaders to know basic OEC policy, his advices to what each Exec Strata Int Exec should know is an excellent excellent view of what LRH really hoped the top exec structure at Int should do.

I can see what DM should be doing, within the guidelines that LRH DID say should be done, and there is PLENTY of room, in my opinion to steer the movement away from the concentration of "ethics" and "retalitory" measures that are concentrated on.

But you remember the WDC ED 86 Int Strategic Planning issue, based on the 1982 advices for the Int Strategy. One of the key key key first parts of the strategy was the ethics handling and pushing production until you run into stops, and they blow the stops off the line with ethics, and get production.

Ex-Int base staffer:
ED 86 is far from my mind these days, but you know, from our earliest conversation that I find it easiest to get on in life by shedding all the "think" and thus policies that went with my time in the movement. So forgive me if I am foggy. What I remember is a white binder with an SO symbol on the front that all Sea Org staff were given in some hokey ceremony. There were policies inside that were supposed to keep you and your juniors on track. Yes, I feel that it is becoming the all-inclusive strat that dictates what the mood should be for all of Scn now. I don't think it's realistic to push and push and "apply ethics" or punish, and push and push without getting disaffection. It's not humanly possible. And when were we supposed to "cruise?" When the "planet is cleared?"

Chuck Beatty:
I agree that this senior senior production strategy is simply an embedded all-time senior senior consideration at the Int Base, and its trickle down effect is probably the single most important driving policy that today completely overshadows all other LRH written policies. [By the way, if you had not even emailed me, I would have been jogged to think about just HOW important, and how what I said above is really, now that I look at it, the goddamn key to why they act so damn stressed out and hard at one another all the time. Looking for weaknesses in NOT pushing production. Pushing production is such a key key overriding ingrained issue.]

Tell me your thoughts on the WDC ED 86, and WDC ED 86-3, the "86-3" was even a buzz-word in the mid 80's, and even though WDC EDs are not FCB level issues, because so many of the FCB managers went uplines for a couple days or weeks of, what did they call it, some phrase for straightening the FCB managers's think around (not SRA, but a milder phrase, god I wish Paul Grady could talk freely). Pull someone up so they could be "slapped around" a little!

Anyways, the Int production strategy. That to me, that is the most driving policy that colors Int Base life, and the trickle down attitude in the movement. You are absolutely right on this, I feel. I think longrange, when people who really get to know policy, do the OEC like older timers used to do the Briefing Course, and if they get people who are fundamentally good people who themselves have a more balanced overall view of all of LRH's works, that those people, as they move in their own decades long trek up the ranks into the top echelons of the Sea Org, those wiser future OEC and hopefully also Briefing Course trained individuals, in a more perfect official Scientology future (also conditional that these types of people who I am speaking about, they somehow survive getting knocked off on their way up the ranks) I then think those types of people may select LRH's earlier more compasionate and wiser policies (the ones I myself think would be the salvaging policies to improve their religious image and get the movement out of the 3 decades long rut it slid into when LRH veered into his "Sea Org" phase), then longer range there IS hope for them with what they got. I'm admittedly afflicted with a fatal case of "pollyannism" so I am possibly way off in my predictions for them.

As DM constantly refers to LRH, to LRH's past writings, DM has a drive to absorb whatever of LRH works and improves their stats, by elimination it is my pollyanna hope they find the objectionable LRH ideas do NOT work, and the truly wiser more compassionate ideas of LRH do work. Let's hope there is enough good in LRH, that DM finds his way into a more decent operational atmosphere for them all. That's how I see and hope it goes.

Ex-Int base staffer:
You mention above that "in a more perfect official Scientology future" that more OEC trained execs may elect to apply LRH's more compassionate and wiser policies and change things for the movement so to speak. In this instance, I do feel that you may be showing your self-annointed "pollyanna" side. I don't see that the system there is set up to make any discerning motions away from LRH's more destructive and sometimes irrationally aggressive policies and move more towards a selected group of compassionate or helpful policies for the movement. To me it sounds like suggesting to the Pope to tell all the Catholics that some of the Bible's ideas are old and outdated and have caused a great deal of bigotry and hatred of one's fellow man, and in other cases have taken away the rights of individuals to choose how to celebrate life for themselves, and so these ideas are to be abandoned and in their place, we are to embrace the more loving, gracious and giving ideas that the Bible offers. Those aggressive or destructive (to you or me) policies are there for a reason; to control.

Chuck Beatty:
On DM, I know he has had to get hatted on the OEC, which he did in his study time, I recall in 1985, spring, seeing DM studying the OEC, I saw him and Shelly, in 85, and I had the urge to help him out.

Ex-Int base staffer:
"I see what you are saying, but do you really feel that DM will become more humane and realistic in his treatment of Int staffers and Int orgs? Do you feel that after a couple of decades of telling people that they are worthless and criminals, just waiting to destroy all his efforts, that he'll feel like he's getting good results being more light-handed? I feel like it is a situation of "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely." I don't see that he'll ever mellow out and treat people like they deserve to be treated. Any comments or ideas about that?

Chuck Beatty:
Well, I think that is why it is so important to get other people to come out and tell recent years experiences of DM's wrath, or lack of it, and how it is being manifested at the Int Base. I recently posted several other Int Base staffers' views who have come out more recently. (Both are anonymous also, and aren't giving exact dates, etc., but the idea I get is that it is within the last 5 years.) I would love to hear from those more recently there what the atmosphere is now.

Did you ever meet Phil Stevens? Old timer, Class 8 and an OEC FEBC. She could chew people up at times, but most times she was cheery and while I am not knowledgeable in her failures as an exec, I liked her more as a leader than most.

Ex-Int base staffer:
Yes, I remember Phil. Short, grey hair, terse and commanding. She was not to be messed with at times, but was a very sincere person. I don't know much about her more recent history, though.

Chuck Beatty:
I liked Sandy Wilhere also, as a leader. I am wildly unfamiliar with her failures as an exec. I think we agree Greg Wilhere, was for the most part a more compassionate exec than DM is. (RTC just have an anti-magnetic reaction I think to anyone implying DM is not compassionate, but they forget how badly and how permanently DM has tarnished himself with his spitting, punching, pushing, threat-screaming little legacy that now will follow him to his life's end.)

Ex-Int base staffer:
I know that Sandy was a bit "chewed up and spit out" looking when she was brought to CMOI to be in the Missionaire Unit. She just seemed to have been through the wringer, and although she could really muster up some balls, it seemed as though there had been a campaign in her past to knock her down to size and she just never recovered from it. I liked her personally, she was frank and funny and no bs or ego standing out in front of her when she walked into a room. She smoked too much, I recall, which didn't do anything for her once very attractive features. She had done a lot of damage with smoke and sun, and this is a trend I've seen too often up there.

Chuck Beatty:
Both these women, I feel had some real warmth and compassion that they showed. I think Sandy is Phil's daughter.

Ex-Int base staffer:

Chuck Beatty:
Also the other Phil Steven's daughter, Chris, I like her too, but she had her moments I think. Personally, I found that women in the upper ranks of the Sea Org, had inherently a good effect countering the male tough violence threatening aspect.

Ex-Int base staffer:
Many women leaders there did have a mitigating effect, however, many also emulated the worst traits of some of the males in power in an attempt to compete so to speak. This is a hold-over from the women's lib movement in my estimation, that women have to take on the worst traits of the most competitive males in order to keep up. When did it stop being a choice?

Chuck Beatty:
It is such a weird universe, the upper ranks of the Scn movement. It all just goes back to LRH in my opinion. He incited and ignited these objectionable long range discreditable trends.

Ex-Int base staffer:
I'm sad that not more people lower in the Scientology "food chain" (to use an Int phrase) are aware of LRH's true intentions and non-BPI advices. As I said, these would be an eye opener. I know the people who got me into Scn would not believe how people behaved and were treated at the top level of Scn if I told them. It is just a different ball of wax altogether. No pseudo-hippie, wanna-help-others, let's-all-just-get-along mantras up there. I think something needs to happen to shock all Scn members into reality on the true nature of their leadership and where their religion is going and for what purposes. Then, maybe they can take things into their own hands and lead it down a more humane, less costly and less greed-driven path. However, I know that won't happen, as that would be the worst thing in the world to the top execs of Scn. That would be doom indeed!

Chuck Beatty:
I do think that now with decades of exposure of the worst, that it is important to get out any continuing manifestations of these trends. I do think they wish to cease what the human race generally disapproves of. LRH in other policies offers them other avenues. Remember rekindling purposes, remember The Way to Happiness, and I think along with the WDC ED 86 Int Strategy, was the whole False Purpose Rundown strategy, which was supposed to get all the top execs at the Int Base done first, which like you or someone else said, DM may not have had the correct EP of.

I think he's trying to lighten up, and he's got his reasons for NOT lightening up (meaning LRH handy written justifications).

You are likely right. But since I am not being beaten over the head, I take it that things are changing. Simple as that, from my personal viewpoint.

Ex Int base staffer:
I know what you are talking about, getting DM's "ev-purps" handled, and the people around the top guy getting him in and audited so that he is recharged and ready to go. I think that DM has the reverse flow going, where he feels that everyone around him (his right-hand-henchmen) needs to be audited and sec-checked, and RPF'd evidently, in order to get things running smoothly again. I was there when the IGs and IG MAA were in, I can't imagine that things got so bad with all of these guys at once that he felt that he just had to start shooting them down. He's made himself even more of a lone-wolf, and I think, a target. He's going to wear himself down even faster. Hitler did it.

On a slightly different note, I know that a lot of people who are ex-Int and ex-SO still believe that the tech works, if applied correctly, and that LRH was right and benevolent at his heart, and that only those who misapply LRH policies give him a bad name, etc. I personally don't believe this way, but I don't shut out communication from those who do. I feel they have a right to feel that way, but I personally cannot support such a string of ideas. I think there is enough evidence to prove that he was nutz, particularly in the end. I think that he had a lot of "ev-purps" himself, as evidenced by some of his more "evil" advices and sinister and violent quotes. I feel that a lot of the material that he came up with himself supposedly, were developed from the study of other religions, militaries, schools of thought, etc., and most of the time he didn't give credit where it was due, i.e. citing those sources that he studied to develop these ideas of his, (I call this the "Martha Stewart Syndrome.") I feel that he supported a system whereby people were treated like slaves and servants to his dream, and that only those with which he chose to develop a special relationship or a special consideration thereof, were treated like valuable people and when they f*cked up, were "salvaged." People try to explain away his tendency to treat people like they were disposable by saying that "so-and-so was on the rocks, and he made sure that everything was done to salvage them." I feel this was done where it was seen as useful to him or the cause. LRH was not a secular humanist. Look at his remarks about those who were not with his program. It was kind of a "you're either with us or you're against us." kind of mentality. Those who were not with him were viewed as mortal enemies of the "tech" and all his good works. How nutty is that?

I've found that although I can see some merit in some ideas and practices, that overall there is so much "bad juju" as it were, surrounding the whole Scn movement, that it works best for me to just drop all ideas that any of it works, drop all ideas that somehow these people are acting this way because their auditing is messed up, or whatever. I feel that we each have an opportunity to act as decently as possible toward other humans and other life forms, we have an opportunity to act in service of others and our environment, and we have an opportunity to create a happy life that can still be a spiritual and contemplative life, even if we haven't "heard the good word." I don't care for organized religions any longer, some people having heard me say "Organized religion is as bad as organized crime." shortly after I left the Base. This doesn't mean that I hate religious people, but I classify them differently. There are people who are "spiritual" who act on their beliefs for what they consider to be the good of mankind. Then there are those who strive for power through a God or other anthropomorphic representation of a devine concept, and those folks I'm afraid of. The resulting power-trip always ends up the same. "My God is bigger than your god." "My God came first." "I'm higher up on God's list than you are." "My God says that if you don't convert, I can kill you to save you." Hundreds of thousands end up suffering in the name of "love." Scn is no different. All these themes are present. So I just feel that treating people like producing cattle, keeping them from having any quality of life or family time, keeping them from reading other ideas, keeping them from communicating freely, and taking away their free-will is not the result of ev-purps, it's just a result of not getting one's shit together as a human being. Anyway, that's my rant for today. Thanks for reading. :)

Best, Chuck Beatty
ex-Sea Org (1975-2003)
412-260-1170 (call after 9pm New York City time;
after 6pm LA time; after 7pm Denver time)

From: ""
To: "SunSurfer"
Subject: Re: Who should get the Money when Scientology collapses!!!!
Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 20:43:23 -0700

>Surfer wrote:
>[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > If the Scn new religious movement collapses, I think
> > their hoards of hundreds of millions of dollars ought
> > to roughly go to the following:
> >
> > 1) Original people donating for Scn religious
> > activities/services who want their money back, should
> > be first to get their money back.
> > 2) Govt agencies leeched on by the Scn movement, those
> > Govt agencies funded out of the taxpayers pockets,
> > should be compensated to make up what the public
> > has shelled out covering Scn's lack of chipping
> > in).
> >
> > 3) Staff should be paid the omitted minimum wages they
> > were denied with any leftover money.
> >
> > 4) Anything leftover, then let attornies battle for it.
> >
> > Chuck Beatty
> >
> Chuck Beaty, you sure are generous with other people's
> money aren't you? You were in the S.O. all those years,
> none of that money came out of your pocket did it? No,
> but it was used to house, and feed you and provide other
> things. Chuck, this is disturbing and disgusting. This
> post of yours isn't flattering at all. Chuck, you have
> lost ALL credibility and ALL respect from me by this
> one post. This is 'old' in ARS time (last month) but I
> am glad I ran across it. You need to stop and think
> about what you are doing, saying, and posting as this is
> beginning to border on the criminal. I note also that
> there are the usual suspects replying, I have yet to
> read their 'take' on it, but I can see that they appear
> just like stinky tropical fish in the home tank when its
> feeding time, they all come out of their castles to gorge on
> some tiny morsels of whatever comes out of those fish
> food boxes.
> SunSurfer

Dear Sunsurfer,

The church's money came originally from the donations of its members.

I agree my post is wildly hypothetical and off the wall contemplation of what to do with wealth that legally has accrued under the official Scientology movement's corporations, and I admit my knowledge of the legalities and laws in that zone are non-existent.

I hold the ethical opinion that the wealth the official church has, should it collapse, which I know is an offensive thing to contemplate, the wealth should return to the original donators.

That is who I'd give it back to, in this fairland scenario.

Your point is taken.

Best, Chuck Beatty
ex-Sea Org (1975-2003)
412-260-1170 (call after 9pm New York City time;
after 6pm LA time; after 7pm Denver time)

From: ""
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: One Int Base Staffer, responding to
another Int Base Staffer's recent info
Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 21:16:36 -0700

Hi, Chuck.

Just read the posts regarding DM, whether he has changed how he acts, your reply, and the question whether DM has had much auditing. Your ex-Int Base poster was correct that DM has changed from the earlier more physical mode to a more "mental" method. (I can tell that your ex-Int Base people do, for the most part, know what they are talking about. I must have worked with them, although I haven't yet twigged who they are.) I personally experienced it -- him having one of his guys grab me, stand me up straight, shoulders back, a bit rough, but not awful, just somewhat demeaning... years ago. I also had even rougher incidents (although again not directly from him) that I will not go into further, as it would ring bells with people I'd rather not have bells rung with right now. But, yes, there was a more physical time. Then the more physical actions stopped and it became a scene of getting condition assignments, not from him but from those junior to him so they could report they were handling. Then he follows a bit later with a direct comm to you, not demeaning but just a comment about it. You are correct, though, that now the general atttitude that filters down becomes one that you are off-purpose if you desire to be with spouse, family, so on and so on.

From the "management" viewpoint, it is this idea that "it's all for the greater good of the group", but forgetting to a large degree, if not entirely, that the group is made up of individuals. If the individuals are made nothing, then the group is a collective nothing. Yes, I KNOW by direct observation and comm with auditors that DM has had and gets lots of auditing. Most of the top execs have. The auditors who have done the higher execs for long enough, however, are those who will be kept in the Sea Org no matter what. If they screw up (which they eventually do -- or maybe someone else's withholds are missed or something ?), they will either be "permanently posted" RPFers or grounds personnel or dishwashers or ... No matter what, however, they will not be allowed out of the SO. They will be told and convinced how much they are really appreciated or given some carrot of someday becoming an auditor again or in some other way kept on a leash so they never will be out. I imagine, though, that eventually there will be someone...

[Note: former Int Base staffers can contact me any way they wish, and I will post and answer anything they wish to post. -- Chuck Beatty]

Best, Chuck Beatty
ex-Sea Org (1975-2003)
412-260-1170 (call after 9pm New York City time;
after 6pm LA time; after 7pm Denver time)

From: ""
To: "roger gonnet"
Subject: Re: One Int Base Staffer, responding to
>another Int Base Staffer's recent info
Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 10:30:27 -0700

roger gonnet wrote:

> It's interesting : if the report is true (impossible to check out)

Sorry about this Roger. At some point, in this imperfect medium, it comes down to something more human, simple trust. There are about a dozen former Int Base staffers who've contacted me, and they all essentially agree. If people know me, there are certainly people who can come forward and controvert anything I post, and I am more than happy for those in the know to do so.

Once enough people come out, more newer higher ecehelon former official Scientolog movement lifetime staffers, more details and the broader picture of the whole top ranks of the movement will fill out and be visible.

For instance, there are hundreds of Sea Org (lifetime) staffers who over the years, visited, but did not remain on a post, at the Int Base.

In the years of the whole evolution of the "new management" structure, when the Flag Liaison Office was set up, and the Continental Liaison Offices were all "slam dunked" into new being with the new issues, about 10 years back, I think over a hundred lower echelon Sea Org members were brought to live and train in the Qual Gold courseroom, especially set up for them, and I am positive MANY MANY of those Sea Org members, some at least, have drifted OUT of the Sea Org, and can confirm and offer lots of insight into their lives at the Int Base those months that they were there. I make a particular plea for any of those former Sea Org members to contact me and tell me about their experiences.

Slowly as more people come out, and speak, the picture of life at the top of the official Scientology movement will be more extensively painted for history's sake.

> it seems that
> the scientology majors look more civilized (no longer striking
>physically their slaves), but the second part would show
>that they are as dishonest or more than ever: why would they
>keep their auditors under such security? That's not really
> something one can call "freedom"!

Yes. Honestly, that is what I have observed, and I want others to continue coming out and say whatever they wish on this issue.

Again, I did post that one former Int Base staffer DID say the physical threatened intimidation STILL exists, and has not essentially vanished, but is still very much a real "ethics gradient" and a "too gruesome" tactic that DM will always have as a justified tactic to employ, since LRH himself used the physical tactic (the time LRH used it on Mike Douglas) and LRH has many figurative advices and some policies that encourage intimidating physical tactics. Even the Knowledge Reports policy letter talks about the pinpricking culprit receiving a "black eye" from his fellow staff who are sick of the culprit's pin-pricking actions. Violence is thus wise right in LRH's policy for all times, for use by any staff who see fit to use it in the vein LRH outlines blatantly in Knowledge Reports policy itself.

> Besides, I fear that's just PR:

Okay. But the on the ground physical pushing, spitting, etc., is simply NOT a daily occurance. No one I think, has been spit on in over 2 decades. Pushing, maybe in the last 7 years. Just realize I am trying to get anyone to give valid info. I'm thinking history, permanent decent material for scholars and academics, to get the atmosphere, as many people who want to help on that, please contact me.

> How could these guys, who are forced to know the upper levels, being
>much audited on lower levels than OT 8: on what could they be audited,
>once the secret levels are known?

I'm sorry, not tracking with who you refer to. OT level think is NOT much of the equation of life, from what I observed at the Int Base. Everyone just thought that case and advanced OT levels were nice, but people were busting their asses and great Sea Org heroes at the Int Base who were NOT "OT" by way of the "OT" levels, so OT level status is not some particularly special vital thing one had to have to succede at the top ranks. The top top guys are all OT, etc. But the mass of underlings are not.

> Anyone could see that OT8 is contradictory to OT 3 and
>NOTs, by instance.

Beyond my ken. Sorry.

> How could they still be on the "bridge" now, while they have their
>2,5 hours study or auditing a day?

The people doing the "Advanced Courses" are cut some slack, so they can push through their OT levels, one level at a time.

> This posts looks PR designed to make believe that these
>goons believe the tech. How come they are never on the
>completions lists?

Sea Org members in the Int Training Org, at middle management in the HGB in Hollywood, does not post their Sea Org completions, only if Sea Org members do their Advanced Courses at AOLA, or Power, R6EW, etc., at ASHO, would Sea Org members be included in the "public" magazines. Sea Org doesn't advertise their OT level advances. Decent question, as I imagine in the really old days, like the late 60's, early 70's, the Sea Org members at AOLA, AOSHEU, ASHO all got their names in the Advance and Auditor Mags back then. But this lack of naming Sea Org advanced courses completions, (oh, I forgot the Source Mag for Flag, which might include the Flag Sea Org members who complete Advanced Courses at Flag, I am not sure that they don't record their Flag Sea Org advanced courses completions, I hope some ex-Flag person comes forward to answer that), but this is a long range unofficial tradition is all. It was not some planned sinister thing, it is just one of the many many details of just how the Sea Org evolved, and since LRH didn't comment on it, no one wants to do something about it because who knows what bad ramifications it might have. Chuck Beatty

> roger

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: [email protected] - Find messages by this author
Date: 20 May 2005 00:24:23 -0700
Local: Fri,May 20 2005 3:24 am
Subject: Running Program at Int, questions, please answer. Chuck Beatty

Any former Int Base staffers with recent years info on the Running Program, please share it if you wish.

1) When did the palm tree replace the orange pole? Do you remember when the track was put in at the base? When was it spruced up? When was the mist system (misters) installed?

2) How long are people to run these days? 5 hours? 7 hours? More?

3) Do most people hate being put on it, knowing the tradition of putting people "in trouble" or "needing it" (meaning the people are messed up in some way)?

4) Remember the story that David Lantz blew the Int Base, escaping during the time he was supposed to be running?

5) Anyone do the "new" running program, since it was all spruced up to make it not seem like a condemnatory action?

6) Did you hear of people's wins doing the running program at any time in its history? Did you observe "conservative" wins, and notice if some people were elated to simply get done? Did you notice people getting fit, and the byproduct of shaping up and getting tanned getting the time off from their job seemed the predominant "win" for some people?

7) Anything else you know or heard about the history of the running program that you think may not be known?

Best, Chuck Beatty
ex-Sea Org (1975-2003)
412-260-1170 (call after 9pm New York City time;
after 6pm LA time; after 7pm Denver time)

From: ""
To: "roger gonnet"
Subject: Re: Running Program at Int, questions, please answer. Chuck Beatty
Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 11:16:11 -0700

>roger gonnet wrote:
> I can't be absolutely certain, but I'm almost sure that
>back in 1982,perhaps near June, LRH Comms from Class IV
>orgs received the "running around a tree program". I don't
>remember the title. But guess what: one or two weeks
>later, and before I had had enough time to translate it
>and send it on the High Crime Line in my org (Lyon),
>another HCOB came in, cancelling the running program
>or whatever title it had, and I remember distinctly
>that the reason given was that "it had not been written by
>LRH". Could this human torture program had been written
>by Miscavige or the WDC then?
> r


Extremely unlikely the running program was by some mysterious WDC member, nor by DM. Many people, hundreds if not thousands, have seen and read and "M-9" word cleared the running program advices, and they have the markings of being by LRH. No question they are really LRH, honestly. DM was not at that stage in his rise as the official Scientology movement leader adept enough nor do I think he got into this type of activity, in my opinion, as extensively as some people imagine he did. I have no personal info on forgeries. I have extensively posted about RTRC (the sub unit in CMO Int, under Senior C/S Int Office, called LRH's Tech Research and Compilations, the unit that does the compiling and writing of LRH issues), I've written all I can recall on that angle.

Best, Chuck Beatty
ex-Sea Org (1975-2003)
412-260-1170 (call after 9pm New York City time;
after 6pm LA time; after 7pm Denver time)

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: [email protected] - Find messages by this author
Date: 23 May 2005 23:44:16 -0700
Local: Tues,May 24 2005 2:44 am
Subject: Re: Questions About the accuracy of the book, What is Scientology?

>Lisa Ruby wrote:
> On page 541 under the subheading, What is the Flag Service
> Organization? it reads, "Flag, today is a service
>organization and no longer functions in a managerial
>capacity." I find this impossible to believe.

Flag Service Org is at Clearwater, abbreviation FSO.

Flag used to be the ship, the Apollo. On the Ship, the Apollo, the FSO and the FB (Flag Bureaux) and the Commodore's Staff Aides, all existed side by side. By Dec 75 the FSO, the FB and the Commodore's Staff Aides all were situated in Clearwater. The FB and Commodore's Staff Aides were considered "top management". FSO has always been considered the "service org".

The top management functions followed LRH when he went west to California, and the FB also split from Clearwater and went west to Los Angeles in the 80's, to be closer to the evolving top management at the Int Base (Hemet).

This left at "Flag", just the FSO essentially.

The term "Flag" has in the years from 1976 on, always referred to Clearwater, the Flag Land Base, and most specifically to the FSO. Flag also meant the management part of Flag (the Flag Bureaux) only up till the early 80's, when the FB was still at Clearwater. As soon as the FB moved out to Los Angeles, the term Flag mainly just meant the FSO.

It was a little confusing for org staff, who for years used to say Flag, and to them, they reported their stats each week to Flag. To them, org staff, Flag was the FB, since the FB collects the stats each week.

So when the FB moved to LA, they were still reporting their stats to the FB, the Flag Bureaux.

But the word "Flag" all by itself, meant the FSO.

FB meant the FB out at LA now.

Today, the Flag Liaison Office, is in LA, and inside the Flag Liaison Office, there is a sub-unit called the Flag Bureaux, and in it, the Data Bureau which still collects the stats from the Class 5 orgs, today.

Public Scientologists when they say Flag, they mean the Flag Land Base, and usually they are thinking of the FSO.

So the statement is essentially correct, if you understand what management functions used to be at Flag, and then those management functions moved west to LA and Hemet, leaving FSO as "Flag" today.

Best, Chuck Beatty
ex-Sea Org (1975-2003)
412-260-1170 (call after 9pm New York City time;
after 6pm LA time; after 7pm Denver time)

From: ""
To: "Gerry Armstrong"
Subject: Re: Why is it that scientrologists are so easily predictable?
Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 12:11:52 -0700

Gerry Armstrong wrote:
> On Sun, 22 May 2005 08:19:10 +0200, "roger gonnet"

> There probably is a long list of things DM has gotten away with that
> people don't even know he's gotten away with yet, so I'd expect that
> the list won't be complete for some time
> Here, work with what immediately comes to mind:
> Boasting of shooting down SPs like ducks in a pond
> Using the law to harass
> The killing of Lisa McPherson
> The Armstrong contract
> The crushing of Graham Berry
> The kangaroo courting of Keith Henson
> The beastifying of Ford Greene
> Clerical collar terrorism
> Serial sadism
> The RFW hate site
> The "Suppressive Person" doctrine
> Declaring people SP
> Twenty-four years at the fair game throttle
> Gilman razor wire>
Not refunding Caroline Letkeman's money
> Refusing to meet with Scientology's victims
> Calling himself a humanitarian

> © Gerry Armstrong

Hi Gerry,

I think it significant to add:

1) DM will need to apologize to those staff he spit on, and who he's slapped, punched, pushed, and physically threatened. There are actual people, and until he apologizes, his factually proven instances of physical denigration of Sea Org staffers, are a permanent, and easily understood permanent blemish on his character as the leader of the Scientology movement. This to me, is the easiest proven blemish easily absorbed by wogs, when one wishes to characterize what type of person David Miscavige is. Were he to publicly apologize, his character would improve. That he has yet in his life apologized, marks him, and marks him in wog's eyes permanently, as a harsh and humility lacking individual (unfortunately somewhat guided by LRH's own justifications, particularly the Code of Honor, which allows DM to never "regret yesterday...." Hubbard's faulty policies and ideas keep DM's character faults protected and locked in, to the official Scientology movement's detriment, simply put. Exposing the clearly documented and first hand stories of DM's spitting on Sea Org staff, to me, is the easiest example that immediately shows DM's character. No human being on earth, hearing of these instances of DM spitting on Sea Org staffers, without DM subsequently apologizing, and humbly admitting these personal failings, is the easiest way to bring DM down from his mammoth self-inflated idea of himself and importance. He would gain so much to apologize, but he cannot see how adopting a non-Hubbard, non-Scientology attitude by apologizing to those he irrationally abused, he cannot see how doing this would help him and Scientology, unfortunately.

[Any former Int Base staffer who were punched, pushed, spit on, physically denigrated, harshly and irrationally screamed at, please contact me. This type of behavior by leaders of groups of human beings, has traditionally failed mankind's approval test. Instances of this type of unacceptable behavior by high echelon official Scientology movement leaders need to cease in official Scientology, the sooner the better.]

Best, Chuck Beatty
ex-Sea Org (1975-2003)
chuckbeatty77 @aol.comh
412-260-1170 (call after 9pm New York City time;
after 6pm LA time; after 7pm Denver

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