Chuck Beatty
Internet Posts, July 2004


[My very first post on the internet, since leaving the Sea Org. I did this post
anonymously, slightly fearing retaliation from the church, due to its history
of hammering former members who complain about things they experienced in the
movement. I made this post on the Through the Door site:

Monday, 12th July, 2004 10:22:36pm
Name or Alias: Ex-SO
Training and/or processing level: Grades
Org or location: US
Time involved in the Church of Scientology: 27 years Sea Org
Recommended Website -

1. How did you first become acquainted with the Church of Scientology?

Went to a college lecture. The visiting lecturer listed out about 10 new age spiritual groups he recommended that students STAY AWAY from. I checked them all out, called them all on the phone, and Scn was the easiest to get into, on an immediate basis. All the other groups were too small-time in my town, or they only met Thursday's in the evening. Because the local Scn org is 24/7, I called, and was talked into coming in right away. I was a book reader, read alot of other practise books, and was immediately impressed with the great number of LRH books. The OEC was out at that time, and I leafed through several OEC volumes, noticing the orderliness of the org board, the chronological sequence of policy, and even after browsing several PLs in the OEC Volumes, I picked up that Hubbard revised policy as the years progressed. From the OEC Volumes, I immediately grasped that the staff of the org had an extensive administrative body of issues to follow.

In the first hour in the org reception, I browsed about a dozen books, reading the table of contents, and searching for indexes, which I was disappointed to find a lack of in the Scn books in general. I respected non-fiction books which are properly indexed and contain bibliographies, which are a sign that the writer is not so self-centered that he credits no one else for his findings. I brushed this off, or rationalized that Hubbard obviously made a conscious decision to position his views all by themselves, without contiunally crediting where he derived his ideas. I admit, and realize now, I should have left, and never returned. But the enthusiasm of the staff handling me, as a complete walkin, the GO guy gave me an okay. But not before asking me if I was a reporter (as I was so interestedly checking all of LRH's books, including the Management Series). This GO person's question put me off. I respected (and always have, despite LRH's views to the contrary) reporters. Not all reporters are the same. I was a weekly reader of the NY Times, and NY Review of Books, and a handful of other intellectual magazines.

It was childishly simplistic, to imply all journalists are only controlled by their editors, etc. The implication from the GO guy was that newspapers and journalists had been giving Scn a hard time. I being completely open-minded, and judging Scn only on the basis of the few minutes of contact I had had with the Receptionist, Reg, Tech Sec, I had decided these people were (to use Scn terminology) uptone fine individuals. So, I went forward, took my OCA test. I dismissed the eval as BS (being polite not to voice my opinion). I was there to explore the data in Scn, and I already wanted to find out from whichever new-age spiritual group I could (I am and have always been completely open-minded, in the negative PTS A-J HCO Policy Letter sense).

If Scn could get me exterior, and able to float around the universe, without my body, then HEY, LET'S GO!! I'm aboard. I was a walkin, and quickly saw within 20 minutes of browsing the reception area, checking out the Bridge, that Scn offered up the cutting edge of spiritual abilities, mainly exteriorization. Creation of Human Ability, with the 'Be Three Feet Behind Your Head', command, and then Route 1, (or is it Route 2?), the process that directs you to fly all over the universe, obviously completely free from your body, as an eternal, immortal pure spiritual being. That was evident within 1/2 hour of walking in the door of the org. That's what kept me in all the years I was in the church.

Other religions, and spiritual groups offer the same spiritual state. Only in 1998 (or 1997), when I was trying to route out of the S.O. (on the RPF at that time, as might be expected), did I happen to read in an Encyclopedia Britanica that was on the shelf in in the RPF theory course room, an article that blew me totally away. It has been known about for thousands of years, by religious people, and scholars, that MANY give their lives to the dedicated long route of spiritual work towards causative exteriorization, (basically the L's of Scientology, exterior with 360 degree full perception), and per the Britanica, very very few truly make it, and those that do, their experience is fleeting, it is not a long continuous blissful 360 degree floating, controlled floating lightbulb experience. It's a momentary experience. At that moment, my 20 plus year spiritual quest burst like a bubble. Had I read that article while in College, and before I walked into the Scn Org, I would never have walked in. Or else I would have demanded (I am too polite, I would ask, and let them produce the statistics, and testimonies), to convince me of the 360 degree exteriorization experience, etc. It is not there to be found.

And in 1997-98 after reading this article, reflecting on my years of Sea Org duty, the wins, and information I'd seen firsthand, the amount of false attests by others reading their exteriorization experiences, the rationalizing, the lack of honestly attaining what LRH promised could be attained at Flag, that to me is why I could not continue. Scn is rigged not to evaluate other's experiences, and exteriorization, being a personal auditing win, is also not to be questioned without serious repercussions for the person who feels they have 'exteriorized'. I met no one in my 27 years who could and was exterior with 360 perception for more than a few minutes. It wasn't and isn't a state to be obtained and maintained, as I had expected. If Scn can and does produce this state, and even if they do it slopily, and only a few times, then I think that's a good thing. But I came in the end to believe exteriorization is basically an hallucination. I've slowly reverted to being an agnostic, and am edging towards being an athiest. I am open to man being a spirit, and being able to exteriorize. But to me, the proof is in the pudding. Meaning, in my 27 years, this one didn't exteriorize like I imagined I would if I truly were a glowing lightbulb of spiritual beingness, able to separate from my body. It didn't happen. So, the Britanica article coincides now with what I have observed to be true for me.

Scn to me, lives or dies on delivering its tech, producing spiritual states like exteriorization, or complete certainty of being a spirit, not a body. Or else it is just like other unconvincing religions that have inhabited earth for thousands of years. I have nothing against Scn's right to be a religion. Were they to deliver what I observed them promising to deliver when I first walked into the org, I would praise them more. That they try or claim to be able to produce spiritual results, is fine by me. This is no sham. There are at least thousands of people in Scn who will claim they have had spiritual gains. So the only complaint I have, in my case, is per Keeping Scientology Working, I got no results along the main line I wished to acquire results. I never exteriorized with any perception, let alone half-perception, etc.

I don't see newspapers flooding us with the news of people en-masse exteriorizing, leaving their bodies, floating around as spiritual beings. You hear more about Out Of The Body Experiences, happening to non-Scientologists compared to Scientologists.

Well anyways. I give Scn the benfit of the doubt, since people on this planet have been believing man is a spirit and can occassionally pop out of his head for thousands of years, making Scn nothing new under the sun by a long shot. That's the main reason to me now that Scn is proof against any charge of it NOT being a religion. But the truth of Scn, or any religion, I now believe is more in line with the article I read in the Encyclopedia Britanica, I mentioned above.

2. What initially appealed to you about scientology?

I answered this. Spiritual release from your body, being able to float around the universe as covered in Creation of Human Ability, the Route 1 or Route 2 procedure, where you are sent by your auditor as an exteriorized thetan to the planets, and all over the universe.

3. Were there problems in your life that you thought scientology would address?

I wanted to exteriorize, and fly out into the universe and explore the cosmos, free of my body.

4. Did you see, experience, or hear about things that didn't seem right while you were in the Church of Scientology? What were they, and what convinced you to set aside your feelings?

I have spent easily 3-400 hours reading all the complaints of the whiners and bitchers and moaners who got ripped off by Scn. I myself as a public would NEVER allow some nitwit reg, no matter what f-ing org they were from, reg me for more money than I wanted to pay. I was a skinflint before Scn and have been all my life. I NEVER buy on credit. I never got overregged because I would NEVER allow it. Most Regs and Scn staff I considered far dumber than me. My battle was finally toppling LRH in my mind. I finally realized he was NOT the sanest guy on the planet, even though I earlier pretty much convinced myslef he was.

I could detail for hours living conditions, abuses, but who cares. It is all relative. I would gladly experience all the abuses, compared to growing up as a starving baby in Somalia, Ethiopia, etc.

The only thing I hated was being locked up, when I had blow thoughts. I hated being locked up. I hated being 'under watch'. The procedures the church initiates for persons (meaning lifetime staff who originate they want to get the fuck out of the movement and back to normal life suddenly) who are 'blowy' I could not tolerate. For that reason alone, I could not stay in the S.O. When those procedures were applied to me, I had my most upsetting periods and hateful feelings of revenge spring to light. I rightly target the church rules and policies, which Hubbard himself would NEVER ever tolerate himself. Imagine LRH being locked up, had he expressed a doubt about Scn. Imagine someone locking Ron up, or having people watch that he didn't blow.

Ron initiated rules and policies which ultimately cause more harm in some instances, than the overall good they are supposed to. The complaints on this site and the other anti-Scn sites are the ramifications of Hubbard's rules and policies that reacted badly on people's lives. Scn can change those policies, and possibly many decades from now, they may. If they keep bumbling along at their current rate of growth, I doubt they will change these policies. It will take some new leadership, who are thoroughly familiar with all of Hubbard rules, to honestly make some needed changes in the rules that have been causing the blowups in the lives of the people who are pissed with their Scn experience.

I am only moderately pissed with my overall experience. It could have been worse. Imagine being imprisoned in North Vietnam as a US soldier. Imagine being in Iraq today, a captured US soldier. Nothing compares. There are far worse conditions all over the planet. People suffer far more in other subjects. The complaints I've read against Scn, while almost all valid, I know as a former lifetime staffer (S.O member), that most are Reg f-ups, staff f-ups, all sorts of off-policy actions.

I've seen policies misapplied. I've seen very high up senior guys do outrageously wrong things, and outrageously right things too. I saw one RPFer blow. No one could recover him. I saw a senior RTC guy handle the blown RPFer in 15 minutes (that's what the blown RPFer told me when I asked him later what happened to him). So there are extremes. People ain't perfect, not all of Hubbards policies are perfect. Hopefully the really bad policies will get deep-sixed (dropped), and less debris or messed up lives will occur. But the basic spiritual game, of exteriorizing people (if this is really possible, I'm open-minded both ways still, but I haven't experienced it yet for myself, so I opted out of Scn), is a valid life pursuit, and Scn church has a right to pursue it. Otherwise we'd have to legislate against religion, like Russia did under communism. That's my two cents about the matter.

5. Why did you choose to stay in the Church of Scientology?

Hoping someday, I'd achieve 360 degree exteriorization, full perception, the whole nine yards. It is guaranteed on the L's per the quote that is periodically printed in the FSO 'Source' Magazine. Scn is a pretty straightforward religion if you keep the bridge in mind, and realize on the L's, people are supposed to get blown out of their heads, and get total certainty as spiritual beings. Who cares about the f-ing money details. If it is f-ing true that all humanity are really spirtual beings, trapped by considerations thinking themselves as meat bodies, etc., then even though I believe in the meat-body theory now, if we are immortal spirits capable of disengaging and causatively floating free, that would be a good thing. So hope of the truth of that claim, and the fact that Scn is not the first spiritual activity to claim and strive for that spiritual state, I can cut Scn some slack in this area. Anyone with half a brain has heard of astral-traveling, and if they've heard of that, then they know guys in India and that area, have been trying to do that, and apparently have been doing it to some extent for quite some time before Scn.

So Scn to me was just a new-age religion, like Ekenkar (not sure I spelled Ekenkar right, sorry), or 'Silva Mind Control', or any of the other new age spiritual BS groups, that claim to give you the ability to exteriorize. Like I said above, I was impressed with the policy layout for the organization, the extensive year by year work, the books all written for the average joe on the street. Looked like Hubbard was trying to cut through all the scholarly BS of the past and deliver the spiritual goods as fast and as best he could. Over my years of Sea Org duty, that was my continuing rationalization. But like Hubbard says in one policy, to make sure the Reg reads the PC wins, or else the Reg will think he's stealing from the public (parishoners) and that Scn is a fraud, unless the Reg hears the wins of the pcs. Well I didn't hear enough of the mainline wins that Scn is supposed to produce. 360 exteriorization, with full perception. It just isn't happening. And those that I heard claim it, sounded a little strained and forced in their claim of exactly what they'd experienced. Too many omitted details of what one would expect to have happen, if the goods could really be delivered on this point.

Also I was married, and my spouses were just as dedicated, and we worked 24/7 and didn't really have time to doubt. Also the fact that if you rose high, and then expressed doubts, you got sacked to the lower echelons, and in a few minutes, could lose all status and position that had taken you years to acquire. So no being 'disaffected', no leeway in expressing 'doubts' about being in the Sea Org, being doubtless was critical to upward movement, in maintaining one's position in the top of the church. You learned the rules to move up, you compromise so as never to go backwards. Not until the bubble bursts, as did for me.

6. Were you staff or public? If staff, was it at a mission or an org? Were you ever in the Sea Org or OSA? Which unit? If not on staff, did you ever volunteer to 'help out'?

I went straight from public, on an auditing internship, to the TTC on the FSO, then Flag Bu, then on and on, up quite a way. I knew (at least as aquaintances), most of the 'bad' hats from 1979 onwards.

7. Why did you leave the Church of Scientology? Was there a "final straw"?

Long answer. 1) KSW #1, no results personally -- re: myself exteriorizing, which was my personal goal, and the crux of religion, immortality, the big questions about life. Scn had written answers, but so does everyone else. I didn't ever exteriorize, and had thousands of hours of auditing, thousands and thousands (over 130 pc folders, and only a Grades PC). I am a nice guy, knew I wasn't SP, but I must be SP with no 'case' gain. Only thing that helped me not go completely mad-dog SP against the church was the Encyclopedia Brit article, which justified that the true high spiritual states are only experienced by a very few. Not anyone I know can exteriorize 360 degrees and float around at will. I know of no one personally who can. I realized it was pie in the sky, and it is fine to offer pie in the sky. But Scn doesn't deliver the pie in the sky. It has a right to offer it, and I hope some make it. I just ain't going for it, and that's that. If the next edition of the 'What Is Scientology' book comes out with a big chapter on the statistics of church members one-for-one going exterior with full perception, like an assembly line, flawlessly, etc. Then I might be interested.

I doubt I will afford the services, the prices are too high. Something will have to give in the centuries to come. Maybe like Nepal, where the government uses the taxes to support the local Tibetan Bhuddist churchs, in the countries around the world, if Scn really churns out exteriorized people, then govts might fund it, and everyone could do the bridge.

But Scn does not seem to be delivering the spiritual goods, not in volume, because all the petty criticism would fall to the floor, if people could routinely be popped out of their heads, and learn to operate exterior, as is promised in Scn. Who cares about $ if you can leave your body, and cruise the whole physical universe. That's the issue over my leaving the church. I didn't see this product being produced.

I want to enjoy the rest of my life as a regular person, with normal hours, no more 24/7 (which is the Sea Org style, which I have no disagreement with, more power to them). But they got to deliver the goods, like Hubbard says in KSW #1. That's all that counts.

8. Do you think the Church of Scientology needs to change some of its practices? If so, what should be changed? How did those practices affect your life?

Yes. I need to be extensively interviewed by someone, as I have voluminous answers. Many nit-picky points, and truly my answers would better be sent to the Sea Org, and let them consider them. I have no reason to smear the church. Given their manpower and the intelligence of their manpower (talking about the SO that is), those guys are in a unique type of universe, working together daily in huge groups and units, smaller units, all working together, bonding in their unique ways, all their inter-org games and competitions, their hard ass-busting work on hundreds of programs and projects (I'm thinking about the HGB, FLO, CLO levels here), there is tremendous comraderie, which only if you have put in the years, done the dirty hard all-nighters, done all the imaginary 'kicking-ass', etc., all the BS wrong targeting, HE & R, all the crap, and gotten through it, the guys who are still with the Sea Org, have put up with alot of crap, and are proud of it. Each SO day, they glow due to their accomplishments. The guys who nit-pick the SO, but who had a few good years, if they remember the good times, they were there. Can't deny them.

Of course the f-ed-up unjust Comm Evs, the lying KRs that were personally motivated by low toned revenge, all that crap is enough to really stick and hurt some people, and they say screw it all, and leave. It happens. LRH in the ESTO tapes even gets down on Execs to not blow their juniors away. All the bad (or most of the bad) stuff Hubbard somewhere in PLs or tapes says DON'T DO THAT BAD STUFF. But staff do it anyways. And Hubbard did the bad stuff too. He blew people's heads off incorrectly. The debris from the mistakes made by the Scn staff and failing to deliver the spiritual goods, and of course failing to correct both of these things, is what kicks Scn in the teeth, in the form of the whiners (me included), on this and the other anti - Scn sites.

No one HAS to buy (donate for) Scn services. No one HAS to stay on Scn lifetime staff. No one HAS to sign any of the totalitarian legal (give up all your legal rights) documents the church may ask you to sign at moments when they are worried you might run out and talk to the media. Just say no, and walk away. Get a different life.

If I had done that, I wouldn't be answering this stupid questionaire, and I wouldn't have logged onto this site, to listen to the other whiners.

I am not as worse off as if I had some real trauma like being a captured soldier in Viet Nam, or Iraq. Only thing I hated was being locked up against my will when I wanted to 'blow' (leave right then, before my Security Checking -- required spiritual counseling). I hated being locked up. I hated when a couple of other RPFers physically prevented me from blowing, one pushing OEC Volume 1 into my chest and telling me over and over 'stop committing suppressive acts'. I knew they were seriously alter-ising Hubbard's policy, but I also realized I'd be further making matters worse, if I got into a physical battle, and headed for the police to obtain my release from that RPF at that moment. I knew the guys in the SO above these two RPFers would have to suffer through the bad PR because of these two, at that moment, jerk RPFers. The policy on handling those wanting to leave is quite clear. I wrote up extensively what should be done to the appropriate terminals in the church, and I expect at some point in the future, if not already by now (since this incident in 1997, was 7 years ago), the procedure might be different. That is my only beef. I know there are persons whose job it is in the church to address my complaint, and I made it known to them. I did my report years later, and no physical lockups ever occurred or no physical detainment ever occurred. There is a specific policy that rules against any physical detainment.

The Introspection Rundown rule, I had the introspection rundown. I had one of the biggest release moments in all my auditing (I laughed for 2 minutes uncontrolledly) on one of the commands from that auditing (spirtual counselling) rundown. But I wasn't locked up, I wasn't that whacked-out, so I did normal physical work on the RPF at that time. I really went into Scn willingly, I knew it was a new age religion, knew within 20 minutes that the media gave Scn sh-t, but I wanted the exteriorization ability.

I got no real long lasting qualms. I hated signing the legal waivers, saying I couldn't voice my opinion. Particularly when my opinions are basically a pretty good defense of the church, better than most of the persons who made me sign waivers not to say anything. What the hell, why try to shut me up. I can voice my support for any religion if it's getting the product. And if any church gets the product, proves people they are free from their bodies, well that church, that group has my support. That's the big test. Then all the little problems like prices, stupid rules, the dumb rules and prices that are barriers, well I agree they should be handled, accordingly.

9. If the items you listed in the previous question were changed, would you consider rejoining or staying in the Church of Scientology? If so, why?

Prices way too high. I can't afford getting to the L's. I won't be paying my Freeloader debt even. I think that's a rip off. As many years as I put in, I don't owe Scn a dime, and that alone will keep me out. Also, auditing skill is really dependent on the auditor digging what I say. I have only been audited by about 4 people, all SO members, who I thought even duplicated what I say. Most auditors fell asleep on me, they couldn't follow me. So most auditing is wasted.

If a whole bunch of intelligent people, like modern trendy, basically enlightened smart college educated people became auditors, and prices came way down (like 10 % of my income), and if like I said above, a new version of the 'What Is Scientology' came out that had all the statistics on 360 exteriorization, and causative full OT, floating free at will thetan activity, in volume, and I read about all this, and it was the rage across the planet, then of course I would get back into Scn. I think we all would. If we could learn how to causatively exit as spirits, our bodies, and travel anywhere in the physical universe at will, what do you think? We'd all go for it. It would have to be true, it would have to be being delivered.

So in the end it comes back to Keeping Scientology Working #1 policy letter, that says the church's troubles always come form the church not delivering what it promises, just not delivering the goods. Deliver the goods, and within the public's $ means, and Scn will be the bee's knees.

10. Any additional comments you would like to make?

In favor of Scn, there is a lot of common sense knowledge, which if a normal public person doesn't have any other way to get common sense knowledge, then the basic Scn books, Problems of Work, have some useful tips. Even though I am not a Scientologist anymore, if someone really pushes me, I will direct them to Scn books, and tell them there is common sense data in it. It depends on the person. If someone will listen to my whole ordeall, I tell them in summary form what I said above, and that's my reason for not sticking with the Sea Org and Scn. From the Scn viewpoint, I basically was not dedicated enough. Yea, possibly, but I want to enjoy the rest of my life now, and am happy to do that.

1A OCMB Post #1 User Name: CE
Posted on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 6:28 am:

This is my first posting to a discussion site. I unfortunately signed EXTENSIVE waivers, and right now, first off I need reassurance, or guidance on what I can and cannot say. I have an EXTENSIVE (posting in senior orgs) history in the SO. I first of all need some people with recent experience to allay my paranoia on what I can, and cannot say on this site, so as not to get all tied up in BS. I am not declared, I intentionally routed out, keeping a good roads and good weather relationship with the SO, on my way out. It took me years, to ease myself out, but I knew it would take me years to get out. I need advice. The shit I signed giving up my rights to speak or write, I want to know if those waivers are actually being used against anyone in the recent several years (meaning specifically against upper level SO org/Int level org ex-SO). Are ex-uplines ex-SO members being hammered or gone after for violating their signed waivers. Can anyone with knowledge on this point, first allay my fears. If the coast if relatively clear, then I have MOUNDS of relatively recent info to unload (which I would like to do).

From a private message to Arnie Lerma, since webbed on his site.

My INCOMM experience.

My association with INCOMM started back at Flag. I was a course supervisor at ITO (Int Training Org, which was a part of the old Qual Bu FB in 1979, and LRH in spring of 79 suggested to Greg Wilhere, then head of the ITO, to make it a separate org, which he did, keeping it placed in the Qual Bu FB). In spring 1981, INCOMM (not yet named such) was being planned.

There was a CMO Int Mission, called MCM (Mission Computerize Management), headed by Foster Tompkins (whom you surely remember, as he may have swung by Bridge or Pubs WUS back in the late 70's). The 2nd for the MCM (Mission Computerize Management) was Chuck Prenner. Chuck had been the Qual Sec ITO, so I knew him well. In fact I trained him on his OEC, and also his wife, Noomi Prenner, both on their OEC's at the ITO in 79-80. I was slightly disappointed to see them go off to the MCM, and MCM then evolved into INCOMM in 1981. ITO lost Chuck Prenner, Noomi Prenner, Barbara Tompkins (Foster's wife), Jorae Tibbits and one other person, to form much of the top exec corps of INCOMM when it formed in 1981. So I knew these former ITO staff well. But at that time, 81, I stayed at ITO until summer 1983, when I was nabbed (for my policy knowledge and encyclopedic reference handy abilities which I'd honed as the OEC/FEBC sup at ITO), and I went to CMO Int at Gilman Hot Springs (Hemet), and became the writing researcher person on the "Routing Forms Mission".

The Routing Forms Mission was supposed to tie in with INCOMM, in that the routing forms were being printed on paper, and designed with little boxes to be filled out in pencil, that could be read and scanned into a computer, and thus INCOMM was going to program the computer to suck in all the data off the completed routing forms that the orgs were going to receive, and this was a whole major strategic element in the original "Int Strategy" of 1982. You may or may not have heard of this, but it was THE strategy of the 80's, it was called WDC ED 86-3 (which means it was issue number Watchdog Committee 83, addition 3). (WDC EDs are CMO Int level issues only, but because this particular WDC issue was so important, the term "86-3" was the buzzword at CMO Int for the "Int Strategy", and that "strat" was known by all to be LRH's last Int strategy, and the final one he authored. Because it was so important, it's nickname "86-3" even filtered down to middle management, the FB, which was just moving from Clearwater out to LA. Therefore for years in the 80's the "86-3" strat was stable datum around which ALL of Int management's actions revolved. 86-3 had three parts, and one of the three parts was the "Routing Forms Project", which was the project I was on. LRH separately with his advices to Foster Tompkins on what LRH envisioned the computer could do (the famous "Chug Advices", which I've read numerous times and I suspect you will want the lowdown on what they say, which I will tell you in due course), LRH planned for the MCM mission to computerize managing, so the computer would basically do evals, issue orders, and run orgs like existing management does. That is what INCOMM was to do, computerize management completely, and replace the managers with a computer that monitored orgs, evaluated, issued orders, and got execution.

For years this was worked on by INCOMM, to varying success. (LRH and Foster Tompkins, in my humble opinion of ALL the advices I have seen, exchanged the longest, most intense of comm cycles. Foster was pretty brilliant at engaging LRH's mind, and LRH went on a major role on computerization ideas, with he issued as orders to Foster in the INCOMM advices.) Foster triggered LRH and LRH went on a role, page after page, going into whole-track stories about the "Duke of Chug" from some ancient galactic empire who was embezzling his planet, the computer picked up the traces of the embezzlement, checked Chug's bank accounts, found the embezzled funds, the computer looks for the person who will have to replace Chug's position now that Chug is soon to be arrested, etc. The computer orders the replacement to report to Chug's planet for duty, and the computer orders the Galactic police to arrest Chug and he's sentenced by the computer to be executed, and duly, Chug is executed. All with the "press of a button!" Anyway, INCOMM has not been able to fully execute these advices in the years I was associated with them. INCOMM was able to do quite a lot, but not yet have they been able to "replace" management, nor do evals with the computer. A lot of time and unbelievable amount of programming has been done, but they're not there.

Most of the 80's INCOMM did what was called "TNT", which stood for "Target, Nudge and Tally", which was using the computer to keep track of programs, step by step, and Nudge and Tally up the targets. The whole FB and Int staffs all got INCOMM trained to "load" their programs, target by target, onto the computer, and then "run" the programs on each other, nudging each other, reporting compliance; and the computer tallied it all up. When a program was marked as complete, then the program was done.

This went on for years, all through the 80's, and was one main activity of INCOMM. Another main INCOMM program was called "Orders Logging", which was for Miscavige, possibly LRH originally. I don't know to what extent the original INCOMM guys provided this to LRH, but I believe the "Orders Logging" program was for LRH originally, and Miscavige, and then others later, used it, as it trickled down to normal users. In the 80's I remember that anyone at any echelon could use Orders Logging, in the end. It simply kept track of a person's orders, with a number, and kept nudging the person up until the order was complete. Various versions of Orders Logging tied into the LRH Comm policy about escalating cramming and ethics gradients on the person who was non-compliant. The Orders Logging program went through several evolutions. In 1993-94 when I was the Int Computer room operations officer, (night shift,) I remember Miscavige still was using Orders Logging. Nothing particularly sinister about it, nor any of the INCOMM computer programs I worked with.

I notice myself getting lost, sidetracked trying to relay the INCOMM programming, as they can lead off into the dull ordinary daily stuff. Possibly I can do a year by year rough categorization of the main INCOMM programs, and descriptions. 83 message system/stats system/Orders Logging

84-89 TNT (written programs tracked, nudged and tallied by the computer.) Computerization of the routing forms. Message system for all of Int and middle mangement. Stat evolution totally on computer for Int and middle mgmt. Personnel data base for Int and middle mgmt. SP data base (list of all SPs and ex-SO) (used by Snr HCO and OSA and RTC.) Org Flag Officer system totally on computer now. Computerized Data Files system (scanned paper items, and text messages.) LRH Copyrights system (now located at ASI, where the Copyrights Officer is now posted, her name is Alison Fine.) Specialized Data Base systems for various units to replace virtually all paper file systems, and indexing systems.

Myself, I worked from 84 till 87 solely on the Routing Forms part of the 86-3 strategy, and in 87, I burned out, got busted. I was in and out of the INCOMM LA space during those years.

Not until 1989, when I got pulled back into the Routing Forms Project again, (this time as INCOMM staff where I got promoted to) then I went and spent more and more time in the Int Computer room, and observed how it was run. (Not sure what you want to know about it, there is endless details I could go into.) In 1990 about Oct, I started being the night operator at the LA computer room. LA at that time had about a 11 million dollar computer room, equipment costs alone (not including the physical flooring, walls, etc.). All the computers I worked with from 90-92 are now sold and gone, they are now obsolete.

The routing forms consisted of a two-part tactical plan, of feeding the computer with raw data. From 83-87 I worked tp help get the computerized routing forms printed, into use, and back to the computer to be fed into computer databases. INCOMM was able to have the computer issue reports, that I then edited, cleaned up slightly, and sent to ED's of orgs telling them little things about what they should do in their orgs. It was a feeble beginning to part of the Chug Advices (Chug Advices and INCOMM advices are interchangable, and refer to all the LRH advices to INCOMM -- about 95 % to Foster Tompkins). So I worked for years with INCOMM, from the computerized routing forms angle. I was fully genned in on the INCOMM advices from my part, so I knew how the routing forms were to fit in with the overall bigger picture that INCOMM had to accomplish. The routing forms by themselves were a success, and in 1984, all by themselves, when they were implemented in the Class 4 orgs, the stats rose. Ever since then and until now, the routing forms have been pretty successful, and a stable adminstrative feature in all orgs. I worked in the "bullet proof" control room that was supposed to stop people shooting their way into the computer room. I was instructed by the INCOMM security guard how to manually execute the "one button" program that would erase ALL of the sensitive OSA computer files. The OSA computers were about 3 of the total 40 INCOMM computers in the LA computer room. The really hot OSA computer with all the sensitive stuff they'd want to have erased if the FBI showed up, and were all kept in one connected stack of computer disks. The security guard who instructed me on the procedure was Hank Gould. He himself didn't keep alerting me to these special duties, and it was more HIS responsibility to run into the computer room, since he was given access, and he was the one who periodically came in, and went right up the OSA Int computer, and did his little drill, like he was typing in the commands to erase all the data on the computer. From what I recall if the program was really run, it would take several minutes to erase all the data on the OSA sensitive databases, on these old WICAT computers that INCOMM had in 1990-92 when I was there. So after Hank's initial instructions to me, Hank didn't expect me to run in and erase the OSA data bases, he was settled on doing this himself. Later in 1991 when I got temporarily transferred to hold the night shiift up at the Int Computer Room, the guy who ran the Int Computer room, Rog Kernbach, didn't gen me in on the erase program. If it existed at the Int INCOMM site, he ran it. Hank was obsessed with his security duties at INCOMM. Hank was the person who drove the magnetic tapes off to a confidential storage facility somewhere around LA, where ALL the data from ALL the LA computers and ALL the Int computers were kept. Wherever that was, I never found out.

I knew Tom R, the guy who flipped out, sent the OSA report to the FBI or wherever he sent it. That was great! Oh boy, good thing I had gotten promoted out of INCOMM by then, otherwise I would have been toasted too back then.

Editors {Arnie's] note - this is the infamous "Miss Blood" operation run on Ex-Flag Cramming Officer Dennis Erlich's ISP - Tom Klemesrud.)

But by the time of the Tom R flap, I was safely at ASI. I did get pulled over and Sec Checked to ensure I wasn't doing anything like Tom R, and I passed my sec check and kept my post, which was the ASI Computer Operations Officer, at that time. But all of INCOMM staff sure got the shaft, except the Int Computer guys: Rog, Pat Buglewitz, John Dunn and James Perry. They got off much lighter than the rank and file guys at LA. The Int INCOMM guys went through far less ethics, I know because I was able to call them, like normal on the phone, which I did almost daily, from ASI. At ASI, I always had questions of things that came up, and I was calling Rog, John Dunn and James Perry almost 3-10 times a week. The Tom R flap at INCOMM went on for months. Tom R should not have been in the SO, he didn't have the mindset, he was way too green, and couldn't tolerate the totalitarian BS like a regular good older SO member learns to tolerate. It is too bad Tom R's mischievousness didn't get an even greater hold on him. He might have sent off a lot more sensitive material to the Justice Dept or LA Times, or something. That would have been something. I think it funny now, but I could never have done that, at those times when I had the same access and computer power as Tom R did. Tom replaced me as the LA Day Operator in May 92 when I went to be the ASI Computer Operations Officer in May 92. He was far more qualled than me. I was a self-taught computer room person and Tom R has a Masters from Cal-Tech Poly here in the LA area. He's a serious tech nerd. I'd like to see and talk to him someday. We'd worked together in the LA computer room off and on for a year together. That whole INCOMM flap that Dan Garvin wrote so well about - what an overkill RTC did on that. Norman Starkey was the I/C, two or three of the top RTC sec checkers were on that mission, etc.

It was serious overkill, and the rank and file caught the most shit, as Dan laid out. Guys like the Int INCOMM guys all got off the hook and me, I totally got off the hook, having been promoted to ASI's computer room. ASI's computer room was a dream, since at ASI there were only 28 staff to service compared to the LA or Int where the computer operator's public was 500 to 1000 staff to service. I being the hardworking type, went downhill over the years. I was lured into the out-ethics upper echelon of less work with the same 12 hour days, but only with a lot of finger-twiddling, and doing insignificant computering for higher ups. When I was at ASI, around 94 Norman and Maria Starkey got removed as ED ASI and ED ASI Communicator, and they went uplines and did the decks, and filtered into RTC staff in 95, which is where I last saw them hanging out, (in 96) when I finally left the base and went down the road to "Happy Valley" where the Int/Gold RPF was. At ASI I disliked Barbara Ruiz, (who may be ED ASI currently, I am not sure.) She was one screaming bitch. For her alone I couldn't take staying at ASI, and in Sept 95, I was promoted from Computer Operations Officer to Exec Esto ASI.

When Exec Esto, I realized I would have to handle Barbara's lack of understanding of English, and boy did I not want to do that. I failed on HCO lines, which are part of the Esto duties, to be able to handle getting new personnel, and I torpedoed myself and set myself up for the RPF, to make my exit from ASI.

The other ASI staff I liked: John Allcock, great guy. Most were in the upper level advanced state of fog, mixed with lots of access to wog life goodies, that ASI staff have.

To succeed at ASI you almost have to overcome a repulsion for middle class (upper middle class) trinketry (eg, 500 dollar suits and clothing, 40 dollar haircuts. My worst was my 350 dollar shoes which were the same model as a pair of shoes Travolta wore at one time). I couldn't take the mindset, and went spluey. But at ASI, we got the "OSA passarounds". The OSA passarounds are the daily news clippings of ALL the bad news and good news clipped from the news services. I then read about Vaughn Young and Stacy Young. I read about Archives.

I heard every bad angle of every news story. I then starting getting paranoid that I someday was going to turn into another defector, Vaughn being the last. I being nowhere of his caliber, could not help the bad thoughts that I was headed out into the same territory as Vaughn; using my insider knowledge to paint the picture as it was on the inside, so that those outside could see what it was like.

That I could not shake, and could not hide, and the thought that I was always going to come out and spill all the beans that I could, never left me. Now, 8 years later, here I am telling you, doing the exact things I feared, while I was sitting in my swivel chair in my air-conditioned little computer operations office - safe in the bowels of the ASI computer room, on the 4th floor of the ASI building on Hollywood Blvd, living the perk lifestyle of an ASI staffer; getting $250 take home per week, and paying a piddling to the Estates Org for rent ($60 per week.) ASI was an out-exchange lifestyle compared to the lifestyle of the rest of the Sea Org members at LA and at Int, particularly the Gold staff. They get it the worst. The worst schedules and many times with no pay, (worse pay scene for Gold staff than the LA orgs.)

There was a heartlessness from CMO Int and Exec Strata staff towards Gold staff over the years I had the opportunity to notice the small things in people's lives while I was uplines. LRH in advices at Int, about Gold staff was pretty brutal over the years, and that "look down your nose" mindset towards the Gold staff was adopted automatically by CMO Int, Exec Strata and RTC staff towards Gold staff.

All this I realize might go right over your head interest wise, but at Int there is always a major climatic ebb and flow of vibes towards the orgs doing well, and those doing poorly, and each week at the Friday night briefing that Miscavige does and did for years - for all Int base staff, he defines which was the wind is blowing, and everyone looks down their noses in the correct direction. I hated that. I hated seeing Gold staff getting dumped on and blamed for the worst goofs routinely. And Gold staff are mainly made up of all the busted staff from CMO Int, RTC and Exec Strata. So at Int there was (and I am sure still is, because Miscavige has it ingrained and it won't go away until he goes away), this tension. And Gold staff are the low men on the totem pole. Sometimes you can see Gold staff look on a higher org staffer like "if you keep that up, you'll be joining me in Gold, and we'll see how well you survive down here!!" I thought that many times myself, like if Miscavige were busted to one of the hot Gold posts, and denied funding, denied all-hands assistance, how well he could get the lower level posts done, and get some of his own medicine. On the Internnet Scn critical sites, there is often talk of the harshness in Scn and the SO, while at Int, there is a cruel ingrained mix, which I have just given you a slight glimpse of. The RTC staff who are stable, meaning there is no real threat of them getting kicked out of RTC and busted down to Gold, they are like a sort of royal set. CMO Int is much more volatile, with only a few CMO Int staffers that are so entrenched, they won't move up to the RTC level, and won't ever get busted down to the Gold level. Exec Strata, there is only ED Int himself who has lasted the years, all the other Exec Strata heads have either gone on to CMO Int, or done to Gold over the years. The exception was Dianna Hubbard, as DSIEI (Div Six Exec Int), who was pretty stable. She had been off lines, elsewhere, then came back onto the scene uplines in the late 80's as a Gold staff member, and then in the 90's moved back up to DSIEI, and that's where she is now I believe. Anyway, I need some tips on ordering of my writings. I will strive to make this less rambling, and more readable. From INCOMM to these last sentences - whew, I get lost in my thoughts. Enough for this message, which I was trying to just stay on INCOMM.

I'll talk to you later. I'll try to pick up the INCOMM thread after you respond to this. Chuck

Chuck Beatty on INCOMM Part 2:

Physical location of INCOMM LA. It is in the ground floor of the Complex Building. As you go in the 'Horseshoe' entrance, it is the second door on the right. It may or may not have INCOMM written on the door, because at various times, they will not want outsiders to know it is the entrance/exit. This is the staff entrance/exit. Wog public come into INCOMM from the Fountain Ave entrance, on the corner of Fountain and LRH Way (across from AOLA building.)

If you were outside the Complex, standing on the steps that slope gently up the main entrance on the Fountain side, (meaning you are standing on the Fountain Ave sidewalk facing the Complex at the middle of the block) then the actual location of the INCOMM computer room for LA, is the section of ground floor building immediately to your left, as you face the Complex. The whole left wall facing the streetside (Fountain Ave) on your left, is the back wall of the LA INCOMM computer room. If you punched through that wall, you'd be in their computer room itself.

So as you come in the Horseshoe entrance, you wind your way through several offices, until you come to the raised computer operations room, which is about 1 ½ feet up from the ground floor. Since the whole computer room area is on the normal computer room raised metal flooring, (like normal wog computer rooms) the floor squares lift up and cabling runs the length and breadth of the INCOMM computer room itself.

You know you are at the INCOMM computer room because it takes up the whole back wall section of the building, raised floor, smoked bullet-proof glass, and screens and so forth and you can see right into the room - where the computer operations officer on duty is sitting, handling the screens monitoring the whole LA computer systems.

The only people allowed in are the operator on duty, INCOMM security, RTC execs, INCOMM execs. Possibly visiting CMO Int terminals, like when there was an INCOMM WDC Member, (for a short time, then the post was nixed, because LRH didn't include INCOMM on the list of areas needing a WDC member over it. Today there is a Computerization Dir RTC over INCOMM, and CMO Int is not above INCOMM at all. That's the way it was last when I was there 1995.)

The INCOMM programmers come to the door occasionally, and I used to let them in, have to be there with them while they were in the operations room, and the programmers would give me their new software, (at that time on floppy disks) and I'd take it and install it.

Also, the INCOMM programmers, during my time, (90-92, and likely up till late 95) would program on a special computer, and then when their programs were tested, a higher INCOMM exec than me would do the tape transfer, or hook up a physical link, and copy the program to the actual user computers. This was all done inside the "middle" big computer room, which held the bulk of the 44 INCOMM WICAT computers at that time period. (Today that big middle computer room I heard is a "tennis court," joke, since the new IBM computers are so small and hold all the disk space that the 44 old INCOMM WICAT mini computers held.)

When I worked at INCOMM, they had about 44 computers - the old 5 foot tall, 2 foot wide, 2 1/2 feet deep, standup WICAT models, which were “mini” computers, meaning they were NOT the old clunky mainframes, but cheaper (only $90 G's each) WICAT mini computers, used for multiple user sites, like for universities, or for faculty and student's use. They are obsolete, and gone today I believe. I think the whole system after the Tom R fiasco, was replaced with PC compatible IBM machinery.

I suspect they went to IBM because the top computer guru at INCOMM in the late 80's and early 90's came from IBM in Australia, Paul Wilmshurst, (his wife went SP by the way, Susan Wilmshurst, she's American, he's Australian). As an aside, I recall Paul telling me in private he hacked and screwed up an enemy computer site in the early 90's - like 92 or 93, meaning he hacked into some of the Scn critical sites, and nuked them. He's the guy who did it. Him and my guess would be if anyone else helped him, it would have been James Perry.

But I recall congratulating him on his doing this one time, he being happy to brag a little about this exploit, casually. He's not some big bragger type, he was just proud to have taken out some site. I assume if there has been some problems in the early 90's, he's the main culprit that the church used. It was a one on one conversation, and I sort of pulled it out of him, but he was happy to tell of his exploit. I think he may have even been sent out of the country, and went to Australia for a few weeks, to avoid being questioned about it, when whomever it was that complained. This would have been somewhere between 92 and 95, sorry I can't be more specific. It would be his word against mine.

Other people to ask, who are inside - who would know, would be James Perry and John Dunn, both programmers for the church, and topnotch debuggers of the whole INCOMM Int and LA software systems. They were still with the church as of 2004. I've seen John Dunn on the streets of LA, spoke to him one Sunday morning, (he was the best man at my second marriage, and we were good friends) and I'd see James Perry loading an INCOMM van around the complex in late 2003. Both are the longterm hard working INCOMM stable programmers. Both have been operations officers, and programmers. As you might know, programmers look down on operations officers, as programming is a much higher skill, and only busted programmers end up slumming as computer operations officers (the operations officers having to handle the telephone traffic from users complaining about all sorts of minor gripes and computer glitches on a daily basis).

John Dunn is in LA currently. James Perry is up at the INCOMM Int computer room.

In 1995 I know the INCOMM Int computer room was going to expand or move. I know where it was in 1995, but I cannot vouch it is in the same location.

I cannot vouch for the current backups procedures at INCOMM LA. I used to make the backup tapes at nights and on weekends. I then boxed them up, and Security INCOMM drove them to some warehouse and stored them. I don't know its location, and cannot vouch that they do this. The reasoning for off site storage is fire damage and total destruction of the computers. At least if the tapes of the data on the computers is stored offsite, then all you need to do is buy and set up new computers, and restore the taped computer data, and you are back in business.

An important fact is that the daily backup tapes are kept in the computer room for up to 3 weeks, and then once a month, the Security INCOMM person would take all the tapes in boxes to the outside storage facility. So at all times, in the computer room, you have complete tapes of all data on the computers, sitting on tape racks, with data in those tapes of the whole computer system. That tape rack will always be full of tapes, and always be right there inside (the inside middle) computer room. (There are 3 layers of computer rooms the operations room, the big middle room which held most of the computers, and the far back room which just held more regular computers.) The tapes that are on site at all times, are in the middle big room of computers. All the computers were equally “confidential”. During my stay at INCOMM LA, (90-92, and up to Dec 95, I'd visit occasionally from ASI) INCOMM LA used the WICAT mini computers to hold all the computer systems used by all of the HGB staff.

The HGB basement has a big computer room, which in 1995 was just a relay station from the HGB to the Complex, which I believe was by Microwave dish, from building to building. It might have been by telephone cables, but I think it was by dish. I know that the connection from INCOMM LA to INCOMM INT is via microwave dishes off the top of the Complex aimed towards Mt Wilson, and then Mt Wilson relays them to another site that relays the computer transmissions to INCOMM Int's microwave dish. I don't remember where the dish is at Int, but it's probably observable from aerial photos of the Gold Base, probably up around the Mtns edge. ASI's computer hook up to the HGB system via land cables, and ASI staff thus have message system capability to stay in immediate touch with RTC and CMO Int staff as needed. The ASI computer systems are identical to the LA and Int systems. ASI's software was often better, and very rarely worse, than the same INCOMM software systems at LA and INT.

I can detail all the software systems I can recall in another message. The actual hardware/software locations are: a) Int INCOMM for all the Int stats and data files b) INCOMM LA for all the HGB level and OSA Int level stats and data files, (all the OSA computer data is right there in the LA INCOMM computer room and was when I was there, because OSA is NOT categorized as an Int level org). Although all OSA staff have Int clearances, or did, when I was around, my then wife Janet Beatty (maiden name Parker, 1st married name Findley) had Int clearances, and on SO event days, we'd hang out at Int during the 3 years I was at ASI. (Janet divorced me after 7 years of my being on the RPF and not being done.)

The flow, physical, is microwave from INCOMM LA in the complex, to the HGB and back. Then from the roof of the Complex via microwave to INCOMM Int, via Mt. Wilson microwave relay station, and via another microwave relay station between Mt. Wilson and Int's microwave dish. And ASI to HGB and back via land cables, I think is AT&T.

Then there is CST (Archives, in the Mtns which you probably know, I can't recall, but their location is findable, somewhere in the Mtns around LA I believe), and it I think is hooked up either by microwave or cable to INCOMM LA, and thus to INT, also. Not sure of the exact hookup, but it's either cable or microwave.

My data is Dec 1995.

Oh, just recalled, the Computer Operations guy at CST/Archives, was Wade Starr and he routed out in 1996. Might be a guy to chase down, as he knows a lot of insider stuff on CST, as he had to do all kinds of emergency communication gizmos for CST, which is LRH's baby as far as keeping all the LRH knowledge on those metal plates, etc, which is what LRH wanted his estate $$ to be spent on first priority. Wade was a recalcitrant on leaving, they couldn't handle him. His CST auditor “messed” up on his auditing, and Wade blew; was recovered, and I met up with Wade, we were both on the decks in spring of 1996, (I went to the Int RPF in un 96, Wade routed out.) (I remembered a few names, current CO CST was Russ Bellows, wife Sara Bellows the auditor.)

Back to your question, I have no data on erasing all the data on the new computer system, as I haven't seen it. But the old command, Unix, was “del */*/*.*” and it took a few minutes to run is all. The old program had some stupid dramatic name, but I can't remember it.

INCOMM Int's space was cramped, in the middle villas; the three rooms on the right end of the middle villas building if you are looking at the villas from Bonnyview. It was really a shabby setup, and I know from 95-2000 Int did massive renovations, new CMO Int Building, a new RTC building, and Del Sol was turned into the auditing rooms for staff auditing now, (which means that OGH, Old Gilman House, probably is berthing for fuckups again, like it was off and on in the 80's, but I have no hard data.) When I drove by Gilman Hot Springs in Dec 2003, which I did just because I wanted to see all the new construction, I couldn't see much from the road, due to the trees strategically planted to coverup the CMO Int building and RTC Buildings. I can't say for sure, we need a new Int level defector to help out, but I believe the RTC building is to the east of Bonnyview, and the new CMO Int building is to the west of Bonnyview. I can't say for certain, but I highly believe Bonnyview is still where it was. Although I am not positive that it wasn't renovated/etc. with all this other construction going on. In 1995 bonnyview was the same space, having been renovated 2-3 times since 83, and LRH's Bluebird mobile home was there, at the car garage where 2-3 of LRH's vehicles still were.

INCOMM Int had, while I was there, (and I observed this up until 1995) its own backup tape racks, and the INCOMM LA security guy would come get the INCOMM Int tapes and store them offbase as well. For sure that has changed since the Tom R fiasco, (Jan 95) and INCOMM Int stores the Int Base computer tapes off the Int base somewhere, (I would suspect) but I don't know for sure. Rog Kernbach, James Perry or Pat Buglewitz would know that, or could answer that question.

Pat Buglewitz, is THE techie at INCOMM. He has physically been a part of EVERY single step of the physical setup of INCOMM LA, INCOMM space at the HGB, INCOMM ASI, CST's computer setup - EVERY INCOMM physical site. He did the actual physical setups himself. He's been CO INCOMM, he knows everything about everything, and is a VERY good person, easy to work with, great guy. I liked him a lot.

If there is any question about the INCOMM physical system, he knows the answer.

He and Paul Wilmshurst are the two smartest guys and most knowledgeable computer guys at INCOMM.

John Dunn used to be the ASI Computer guy, under DM when DM was at ASI. John Dunn got busted from ASI in 1989. Chris Johnson replaced John, and I replaced Chris (who blew and was recovered; she didn't like being a computer operations person, she's since been busted to Gold.)

The Command lines, are from Computerization Dir RTC (a Dept head in one of the production divs of RTC), to the CO INCOMM. Then INCOMM has a normal 7 Div org board. I think the lady named Cathy ?.. is CO currently. I know by face, a lot of the execs. Pat Buglewitz, and his wife Patrice, (she's always been a DCO or Chief Off or Div head level and always a good exec in INCOMM - personable, not a computer nerd, but an exec type.) Both have been in INCOMM since approximately 1984.

Oh, there is also an INCOMM CW (Clearwater), and it is under the CMO in Clearwater; it was up to 1995. Paul Johnson has been the longtime CW computer person. When RTC execs and Norman Starkey visit CW, we LA or Int or ASI computer operators had to ensure that their “computer message” traffic all flowed to CW, so they could go to the CMO spaces in the WB building, and handle their message traffic (this was in the early 90's I recall). The INCOMM network, message system, software allowed the computer operations officers of the various sites, (ASI, Int, LA, CW) to switch a user's message traffic to land at one site, so the user would get and receive his message traffic at that location. That was just a peculiarity of that INCOMM software at that time. It may or may not be that way software wise now.

I have no data on ANY of the INCOMM software systems since Dec 95, but I know they planned to get RID of all the WICATS, and I am sure they have since then.

I heard someone - oh yeah, an INCOMM member on the PAC RPF, in 2003, tell me that the WICATS were gone, and the big middle computerroom at INCOMM LA was like a tennis court now. The new computers were so reliable, that this computer operations officer didn't have to handle very many phone calls, like I did in the old days of the WICAT systems. (The WICATS were late 80's computers, and very unreliable hardware and software wise, but they were easy to learn, use and program.)

Dan Garvin knows about the standalone table model WICAT computers that OSA used, and the PCs he says they later got themselves and bought off the shelf software to use for their own purposes, (smart of them, as INCOMM programmers took forever, and often came out with faulty programs in the 80's, 90's.)

COB RTC had a standalone WICAT table computer, which I know that Rog Kernbach, the Int INCOMM operator, had set up for COB, (Miscavige) to hold what are called the “COB ASI” advices. These were the advices from LRH to DM when DM was COB ASI.

I took these advices off of the ASI computer, meaning the COB libraries of LRH advices were removed, and I deleted them all off the ASI computers, and put these on tapes and gave them to Rog, who put them on a standalone WICAT (150) standalone table model computer, for COB to hook into them, so no one else could see them. I checked those advices out briefly, and saw nothing particularly sinister about them. If they contained anything nefarious, I missed it. I kept no copies of the “COB” advices at ASI. They are all at RTC last I knew, in Dec 95. Not that this means anything particularly, just shows how Miscavige thinks - like these advices are to him personally, NOT to the COB ASI post, which by the way CEASED to exist the moment Miscavige moved himself from ASI to RTC in 1989. At ASI, it left Norman Starkey as head, from his then post of ED ASI. The COB ASI post ceased to exist on the ASI org board and isn't on the ASI org board as of Dec 95 when I left ASI. That is minimally a minor corporate violation, for an RTC member to remove LRH ASI traffic and take it to another corporation - RTC. Just a little odd, I think. Like Miscavige was ensuring no one moved up to COB ASI post, and thus would have been senior to him. Sort of covering the possibility. Maybe in all my writing so far, this is possibly the most useful bit of data firsthand I have. Confirms Miscavige's tactic of elevating the COB RTC post, and the retroactive action of obliterating the COB ASI post. (I did this in 93, 94 or 95 - make the CO ASI tapes, and remove the COB ASI advices off the ASI computer.) I think I even non-complied, and left the advices somewhere on the ASI computers, out of my dumb sort of rigid "sticking to basic policy" viewpoint, thinking to myself, “what would LRH do?”, and leaving the COB advices on the ASI computer, because they were labeled “COB ASI”.

Chuck Beatty on INCOMM Part 3:

While I was in INCOMM, (1990-92) as a Computer Operations Officer, and likewise at ASI, (1992-1995) as Computer Operations Officer, I was intimately connected with the SIR data bases. These are all of LRH's issues and advices, in computer data bases, so the relevent execs and staff, from middle-management up to top management can access and read LRH source materials. FLO, (Flag Liaison Office) which is in the HGB, (Hollywood Guarantee Buildling) corner of Ivar and Hollywood Blvd, Hollywood - those guys have limited access. They don't have the Int level advices, they don't have any access to ASI, (no one has access to the ASI advices except ASI staff, when I left in Dec 95.) FLO has access to HCOPLs, HCOBs, (but not the controversial non-confidential HCOBs about "Heaven Implants." Those HCOBs are only on the Int base SIR HCOB menu, as of Jan 89, last time I saw the "Heaven Implant" HCOBs on the Int SIR HCOB menu.) FLO has access to FO's, LRH Issues, meaning Flag Ship Orders, Orders of the Day, Central Bureaux Orders (CBOs), Technical Individual Programs (TIPs), various LRH written programs, Ethics Orders, (written by LRH) and various other issues. The OSA staff have their own issues nowadays, which are kept secure to their floor of the HGB, in other words the OSA issues, (which have LRH bylines) don't leave the OSA floor. But the normal HGB staff member on the other floors, all can get computer access to what I said in this paragraph. (I don't recall and don't have data on OSA advices, which I think are only on the Int INCOMM SIR data bases, but I don't remember exactly on them.)

When I was a computer operator at INCOMM LA, the computer room in the complex which I described in my other message to you, I remember the SIR databases were all on one or two INCOMM computer. And the backup tapes for the middle management SIR menus, were separate tapes, which we kept in the computer room. The point being that the full LRH data is physically on tape, in the LA INCOMM computer room, very likely, as we speak now.

At Int, in the Int INCOMM computer room, I was last visting there in Nov 95, the same scenario applied. There would be backup tapes of ALL of the SIR menus on the Int INCOMM computers. INCOMM Int has a considerably greater number of SIR databases. LRH gave advices to ALL of the major units at Int. There are menus for the SIR advice databases which are quite specialized: Cine, Music, Grounds, Exec Strat, CMO Int, (broken down by year groupings I seem to recall, as CMO has A LOT of advices to it;) RTC, (which of course only RTC members can access, and in fact the higher of an org you are in, the more you can gain access to the lower SIR databases;) and there are all sorts of issues LRH wrote that don't really belong at the middle management level, and the guys at Int have these extra categories.

The point is, that both the INCOMM Int and INCOMM LA, both will have tapes of their full SIR databases, at their respective computer rooms. Because it is basic computer room policy to have those tapes nearby, meaning in the same room, or directly adjacent to the room with the computers, that is why I am pretty confident that the SIR database tapes will be at each INCOMM computer room as we speak right now. (It was that way for ALL of the time I was associated with INCOMM Int and INCOMM LA.)

Like I said in my first message, I don't know the actual physical location of the Int INCOMM computer room, if it has moved since I was last there in fall 95. If it hasn't moved, since Dec 95, it would be at the west end of the "middle villas" at the Int base.

When I got busted in Dec 1995, within the first couple sec check questions I was asked, was about did I have anything, like the SIR tapes. Those would have been the hottest items to have taken, I realize now that I am out, and talking to you at this moment.

It would be very difficult, I think, for me when I was there, to even consider walking out with the tapes of the full Int SIR databases. How someone would do so today, I can't imagine there being someone on the inside with the mindset to do so. The INCOMM Int guys when I left in Dec 95, were Rog Kernback and James Perry, and occassionally John Dunn would hang out at the INCOMM Int computer room. I am sure that Pat Buglewitz is intimately familiar with the INCOMM Int computer room, as he physically did most of the physical setup of it. None of them are the defectee type, that I can see. All are married, and their spouses, (except Pat) are at the Int base also. Only John Dunn is single/divorced (as of spring 2004.)

It is only after months and months of reading critics' postings, am I even considering this now. To have ALL of LRH's writings exposed to sift through, would be a good thing, I feel now.

A side story - in 1994, when I was the ASI computer Operations Officer, I was asked to put COB ASI's advices on a pc, so that two ASI staff could work on the advices and proofread them, which is the procedure to ensure that the copies that are installed on the computer are good, and don't have typos etc. I put all the ASI COB advices on this pc, and the two ASI staff did the proofreading, and I copied the proofread advices back off the pc, (personal computer) and I forgot to delete the COB ASI advices off of the pc. Later, a couple months later, that pc I used for something else, like I swapped it out and gave it to another staff member. The pc broke down for some reason, and I then sent the pc out to get fixed, by a wog repairman. I didn't realize that the pc had the COB ASI advices still on the pc, when I sent it out. I freaked. Somehow I caught what I had done. But the pc was in "wog" hands for about 24 hours, and so the COB ASI advices could have been picked up, had the wog known what was there, and had he copied them.

The point is, that staff, make mistakes, like this. This one is pretty rare, but it can happen.

In otherwords raw LRH issues DO sometimes end up right smack dab in the wog world accidentally, due to staff screwups, (and I was at ASI when I made this mistake.) Needless to say, I was thoroughly sec checked on my goof, and I passed, because I was not trying to get the COB ASI advices into "enemy" hands.

Don't know if this data is useful or not.

Best, Chuck Beatty

2 OCMB Post #2
Posted on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 6:49 am:

I'm Ex-SO, relatively recently. I signed EXTENSIVE waivers, on video, giving up my rights to free speech. I signed away my rights to free speech (regarding my SO career), thinking that I'd just go ahead and violate the agreements, and pay the consequences. But I'm still paranoic about getting into a bunch of BS, being called by people in the church, etc. I went out amicably. I wanted to remain good roads, good weather. But I also want to unload all my "inside" knowledge, just for the record. I hope someone is saving all these ex-SO stories, for future researchers, who try to piece together the inside the SO story, which the church is not about to record in writing for public consumption. I think the inside story is valid material for the specialized historians wishing to know what the inside history in the church was (meaning inside the SO). I have relatively recent history. So I need some people, who know which way the wind is blowing, as regards to the church tromping on ex-SO (uplines ex-SO), who have bailed out in the last year or two. I saw Dan Garvin's post somehwere. I know Dan. I know him back to the late 1970's. I believe anyone in a "church" (and thus protected by the US laws), has the right to their self-delusions. But I want to know if the coast is clear to write some interesting inside details to my last years in the SO? Someone who knows, please advise me.

3 OCMB Post #3
Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2004 - 8:41 am:

Thanks all who answered my first posting. Getting some sort of legal advice is probably the route to take. I was so long leaving the SO, that my last post data is old (meaning only up to the mid 90's). But while on the exit route, I heard lots of stories, of experiences others had had, first hand. I heard stories of staff at Int, in the late nineties, having to wear stupid little name tags. If someone f-ked up, then Miscavage would think of a clever (1.1) degrading name for the person, and HCO Gold would cut the person a special nametag (the nametags all have velcro backs and attach to the velcro strips above the left shirt pocket at that time in the late nineties), so the screwup people had these belittling labels that Miscavage thought up for them. This was a degrade he instituted as an "ethics gradient" totally squirrel, something LRH would not do, and it is the kind of BS he could get away with with no one uplines putting Miscavage's ethics in. People had to put up with this crap from him. It is possible Miscavage didn't order this, but I cannot imagine anyone else getting away with this. I saw an RTC MAA verbally attack someone, and make wild gernalizations, due to the MAA's ignorance about life (meaning this MAA was way over their head, little experience in life, typical of the screwups that happen inside the church at all levels). That MAA blew from Int within 48 hours of their screwed up inablility to handle this other person who was a "flap" on this MAA's lines in some way. I saw certain hot posts in RTC, the one that deals with the uplines f-ups, the people with doubts about staying, the recalcitrants, there's a post in RTC, and that post is senior to the post in OSA Int (the one that Tory knows about in OSA, held by Kirsten). Well the one in RTC was pretty unstable, meaning holders of that post got busted every two years or less. That post was supposed to handle the flaps at Int, meaning the f-ups.

One type of fu-kup I saw one time was a security guard at Int, who set off the whole alarm system, cause a base wide panic, meaning he intentionally tripped the wire fence at night, setting off the alarm, starting up the whole guard routine to check for the "blown" Int staff member. This was in the 90's, when the razor-wire fence (supposedly to keep people out of the property, which I suppose if that meant process-servers, then it served its purpose that way at least), but from the inside, being in the f-up category, that type of fence with the razor wire, and with the motion detectors to tell where on the whole fence around the Int base, the blowing staff member was hopping the fence, then my experience at the time, and I doubt it is any different now, if you are "confined" to the base (which was the phrase for being under watch, meaning you were a blow threat), it was a concentration camp atmosphere. All this mentality of being a threat to the church if you managed to commit a serious enough of a screwup, and being immediately put over to the west part of the Int base, where they had a few decrepid old buildings (OGH which stands for Old Gilman House, where the auditing occured at in the 80's and part of the 90's until the Del Sol building was renovated and turned into the auditing building for Qual). But if someone was staying "over at OGH", this was the euphemisn for a while which meant you were off post, under watch, on the decks, getting cleanup auditing, and living in the other buildings over further west of the OGH building. In that category for a while myself, is when I saw the busted security guard play games and pretend to show the remaining security guards that they couldn't do sh-t to stop him from blowing. And indeed anyone with some degree of cleverness (I know from hearing of some who blew successfully, jumping the fence in a spot where there was no razor wire), you could escape the base, even if you were under "watch", and under sort of limited security watch by the security guards. I thought it funny and indicative of the stupid games staff get into, proving each other wrong, and creating childish flaps, this was one. My hated moments all had to do with the stupid concentration camp atmosphere. These are just stupid solutions that dumb Int staff came up with to try to solve the problem of people wanting to not stay at the base.

Better to let people go, and not put up razor wire fences to prevent them from leaving. I think all the razor wire was eventually taken out, for the same reason the "Happy Valley" name is not used any longer.

Ironically when I was on the Happy Valley RPF, there was a period when that RPF was made to look like a "holiday camp", which was actually kind of nice. This was after the period when Vicki Az. and Jesse Prince were incarcerated there. What an ironic joke, trying to make the RPF space into a holiday camp. Flower garden beds, nice rock walls, lots of ice-plant, really a beautiful space. Then one day an RTC staffer comes (the RTCer was on that post that doesn't last long, and this RTC staffer got shifted off this post shortly after this incident I'm about to tell I'm sure). So this RTC staffer gets pissed that the RPF space looks so much like a holiday camp, that the whole RPF at Happy Valley gets called together to get a berating by the RTC staffer, for us tolerating such an "off-policy" RPF (meaning too much holiday camp atmosphere). Pretty stupid briefing, we liked the nice look of our camp, what the hell. We knew it looked good, and it was a cover in case any helicopter reporters came along. Better to look like a holiday camp than a concentration camp. But this being a perfect incident of ignorance in the ranks (even in RTC), this RTCer did as you might expect. They ordered the camp to be made more RPF-like (meaning more concentration camp like basically). And the RTCer wanted to know who the "who" was behind how the RPF got to looking like a "Holiday Camp". This incident should really be put into a movie someday. Well of course the RPF I/C (which if you know the SO, you know the RPF I/C post is a regular staff member, and he/she catches sh-t from RTC if there's anything amisss in the RPF), well this RPF I/C is sh-tting bricks, and essentially blames the holiday atmosphere on one of the nicest RPFers in the Int RPF. That breaks a few hearts, causes some real tears, because that RPFer feels betrayed, because every step of the holiday atmosphere was cleared with the RPF I/C, and now he's pointed the finger at the RPFer who tried their hardest to give the RPF a good atmosphere. Not a wise thing for this RPF I/C to do. It is also about as stupid as a prison guard blaming one of the inmates for persuading the prison guard to create a holiday atmosphere in a prison, and then when the Warden asks the prison guard why the prison looks like a holiday camp, the guard says it is the prisoners' faults. They persuaded the guard to turn the prison into a holiday camp. But the comedy is not over, it goes on and on. So the RPF I/C is trying to cover his ass by blaming an RPFer (dumb), and then the RPF Bosun (top ranked person who is an RPFer, but the person in direct command of all the RPF members), got pissed and blew up at the RPF I/C. An RPFer is screaming at how stupid the RPF I/C, and how the RPF I/C betrayed the RPFer (by pointing the finger at this one RPFer who essentially was just the head gardener of the RPF site, but who is offered up as the "who" to the RTC staffer who wants to put someone's head on a pike, as per "standard" ethics investigation procedure). This is now an out of control major flap. RPFers are NOT supposed to go up to staff and blow steam on them. But the RPFer Bosun let the RPF I/C have it between the eyes, and then the RPFer Bosun storms out of the Happy Valley RPF. He walks about 10 hours and 20 some miles, from "Happy Valley" until he reached the nearby city of Beaumont. He plants himself at a Denny's or similar restaurant. All the while a dozen RPFers following him and trying to talk him into coming back (he was a pretty beefy Bosun, so no one tried to jump him or restrain him physically, or else he would have made mincemeat out of them). No dice. This Bosun wasn't coming back. Then amazingly, to the great credit of some indviduals in the top of command in RTC, one of the top, most capable right hand men to Miscavage, goes to the restaurant in Beaumont where this seething RPF Bosun, who's just blown the RPF, is sitting. To the RTC right hand man's credit, he uses his power and authority to handle this flap, and after a quick 5-10 minute conversation, takes the RPFer Bosun back to Happy Valley, and contramands the orders of lower RTC person who did the "make-wrong" briefing that precipitated the blowup. So this incident to me is typical of the things I saw over and over throughout my years in the SO.

People get into positions, abuse their authority, do wierd stuff, make a mess someone higher up has to figure out how to handle. Sometime the errors go on and on for years.

After this Holiday Camp flap, some months later the "new" RPF issues came out. Things tightened up again (meaning no parent time for RPFers with kids, no time to see your spouse). Some of the new RPF rules got tighter again. To this day I am positive the Happy Valley (although realize they stopped calling it "Happy Valley" for obvious reasons back in the 90's), RPF still exists. Aboout a year after I left the Int RPF at "Happy Valley", it was still going on. It has had it's ebb and flows. It ceased to exist in the early nineties. Then it formed up again in the mid nineties. One last story, then enough for now.

Probably the funniest Int RPF story I have, is I was there at the Int RPF when the German news helicopters were flying over. I saw them on two occassions. I was dying to run out of the building we were all hiding in, and wave my arms at the helicopter, and pretend to beg for the helicopter to land and rescue me. I was dying of laughter thinking what kind of flap that would have been, I'm sure that would have caused the Int RPF to fold up overnight, were film clips to appear on the news of me waving and begging to be rescued (and believe me other RPFers would have been trying to drag me back inside, out of sight, and if that got on film, that would have been a beautiful flap). Well, I didn't have the nerve to do that. But I thought it would have been a good thing had I done so. And I'll bet if I had the thought, I imagine a few other of the Int RPFers had that wicked desire too. Enough for now.


Im CE the person who posted this on FACTNET in 2005. Chuck Beatty

07-24-2004, 10:55 PM CE ( Guest FACTNET CE POST #1

Re the vault at CST, I heard this year in LA from a Scn public, that some recent event (last year or so), he heard that a full set of the LRH mat'ls was put into orbit, via an orbiting satelite. LRH was obsessed with ensuring the "tech" would be around despite mankind blowing the planet away. I recall reading advices (when I was on a Pjt uplines in the early 80's) where LRH mentioned "spacia linguia" and getting his mat'l all translated, into "spacia lingua", so that up the road, if earth was totalled, the implication was that someone could come back and dig up the "tech". An ex-CST staffer I talked to, we were both on the Int RPF, and he's shooting his mouth off a little on this and said something along the lines that one or two guys in the SO right now, have the job to after this lifetime, or in the event of sudden major disaster, like comet taking out earth, etc., to come back up the road, like whenever they can, after getting bodies on another system, and coming back and digging up the tech. I vaguely remember the advices go into this. Someone entrusted to come back would remember the coordinates so they remember where to come to dig up the plates. For real. This is not far-fetched, because if you have seen the new Tech film, "Why TRs", with Isaac Hayes narrating from the outer space platform, the LRH message in that film, the film is only for Briefing Course students, and at a particular level of the BC, the message is they have to have the contents of the book The Dynamics of Life, completely down pat in their heads, so that lifetimes from now into the future when Briefing Course grads find themselves on new planets in the future, they know that TRs and the basic tenets of that book, are what they'll need to instill in the co-auditing twinships they will be establishing. The reason for TRs, is in the Dynamics of Life, in otherwords, and that tech principle is so important that BC grads better at least remember that tech point above all others, for the day when they find themselves on other planets trying to teach the tech, and do a one man Scientology movement from memory. That movie is about the most concrete tactical layout I've seen anywhere about what LRH foresees for the long future of Scinos who are really Scinos up the road.

Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 02:09 am

Re loaction of Scino vault. I was in a position to see press on the vault. A good search on Lexus-Nexus, would find the exact location if you need to. There are other newspaper articles on it, I remember seeing the press clippings. OSA does what are called "passarounds" which are xeroxes of all the new articles on Scn, etc., and the "passarounds" get sent around to higher up SO and ASI people. The address for CST, the vault, were right in the newspaper clippings I saw. I don't remember it, but it's out there in print on Lexus-Nexus, or somewhere. It was in the local newspaper from the nearest town. That local town did a whole article with photos of the vault, and the hillside, and guard gate, etc. of CST.

6 OCMB Post #4 Thread MODERATED "Sleep Deprivation in Scientology"
Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 2:37 am:

My experience on the RPF, sleep allowed recently.

I have 5 plus years of experience on the RPF (both the uplines RPF for senior church orgs - RTC members, CMO Int members, Gold org members), plus over a year at the PAC (LA area and western US region) RPF. 7 hours is what it states in the RPF issues. But at both places, Int and PAC, and I am sure the other RPF sites (one in Clearwater, and sometimes small ones exist at the UK, Copenhagen and Sydney), they all follow suit and allow AT LEAST 7 hours. At the Int RPF, we got as much sleep as needed to be "sessionable", meaning adequately rested to get the Scn auditing confessional procedure. No BS, the RPF in the most recent years does NOT fu-k around with ensuring RPFers are sessionable. If an RPFer was supposed to be the pc (receive the confessional procedure), on a particular day, and he had not had enough sleep, at both the Int and PAC RPFs, that RPFer would get extra sleep, so he/she was sessionable. There was NO exception. I am not a defender of the church or SO, but this is the truth. They let anyone getting auditing to get enough sleep, and they allow extra sleep for those that need (some people do get 1-2 hours extra sleep daily, I've seen it authorized). A side story to this, since I was on these RPFs (Int and PAC) recently, I can attest that there have been fads, of lots of RPFers asking for extra sleep. And at the Int RPF, because the screwy RPF issue says 7 hours, and 7 hours is just not enough sleep, the local hours for sleep was bumped up, so if you really conserved on your going to bed time (you're given a few minues to brush your teeth), so if you really do your end of the night hygiene time really quick, jump in bed before lights out (all typical of all RPF sites, they have an end of the night hygiene time to pee, brush your teeth, etc.) you can almost sneek in about 7 hours and 40 minutes, which is what both Int and PAC RPFs currently allow, last I was there. I have NO reason to believe they have lessened this. Like I said, I am no defender of the SO nor the degrading rules that still exist in the SO or the RPF, but sleep has been relaxed for RPFers, so they are NOT currently a bunch of sleep deprived zombies. (I could make a joke here, but you can make the joke yourself.)

7 OCMB Post #5
Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 5:16 am:

In my time in the SO, uplines, I was able to read the LRH advice on "...and if you see [blank, name of a good person in my book, so I won't name him] spit on him for me..." --LRH. This quote is my very close paraphrase of what LRH said. Of course due to Miscavage's nature, he took this as an order from LRH (LRH has of course ordered worse things in policy already). Miscavage finds, spits on this person, and I believe he wrote up the compliance report. But I think Pat Broecker didn't pass that info on to LRH (protecting Miscavage from his own stupidity, and avoiding upsetting LRH). While on the PAC RPF recently, I was dying to ask [blank, the staff member Miscavage spat on] about the incident. [Blank] is a VERY old timer, still hanging in the SO. He even graduated from Oxford Univ, and has great stories from WAY WAY back. Any old timer will know him (meaning Flag ship days). But unfortunately, I didn't have the nerve to check into what exactly happened that day that Miscavage spat on him. It would have meant me getting "rollback" (rollback is the "tech" for tracing black PR rumours and getting those who relay the rumours to find and confess their crimes underneath their rumourous intentions).

[That's a whole other important posting I will do, which is on "rollback" tech, and one of the current RPF auditing rundowns called the "truth rundown" now. wow!]

Anyways, I didn't have the guts to ask [blank, the Miscavage spitting victim]. That person is a very nice person, and that LRH even remarked to spit on that person (even figuratively), to me shows you where LRH was at. Anyways, in my capacity on certain SO jobs over the years, I had access, and a dtuy to read almost ALL LRH advices, and can tell one and all, that this one figurative advice is all that there is to support the "spitting fad". Miscavage spit on [blank], and Miscavage also spit on a really great person, Homer Schomer, and that story is elsewhere. To me, when I finally got out of the SO, starting reading posts and books (all great anti Scn books online), and I stumbled across the incident when Miscavage spit on Homer (who I remembered from the FSO in 1975-76, and Homer was a very well-loved SO member), that put me forever in the anti-Miscavage camp. No leader spits on fellow human beings. Realize that Miscavage distorted an already vicious (but in the context LRH wrote it, clearly figurative) comment by LRH into a degrading fad. That incident I think is about the quickest way to give someone curious about what type of person the leader of Scn is like. Anyone ever hear of an apology from Miscavage for his degrading actions against SO staff?

8 OCMB Post #6
Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 6:53 am:

I assume this thread the L's originally had to do with the Scn L's auditing actions delivered only at Flag by Class 12 auditors. I was originally entranced with Scn's L's processes, and admit that when I joined the SO, I actually joined the FSO TTC, as my leep into the SO, thinking that by becoming a Class 12 at the FSO, I would be guaranteed my own route to the promises of 360 degree exterior perception, in other words an out-of-the-body full perception in 360 degree, floating ball of blissful all-knowingness, nirvana. That is EXACTLY what I wanted, and that is why I stayed over 25 years in the SO. That floating lightbulb nirvana 360 whiteout bliss state, is an hallucination in my opinion now. I was never into re-incarnation, and at the end of my auditing (I happened to have the 2nd greatest number of received auditing hours, and over 120 pc folders in the end, in the RPF unit I happened to be in at that time), I stopped believing in my self-created pictures of my "past-lives". It was all BS, I rejected it all, and refused to create "pastlife" pictures to fulfill the BS "False Purpose Auditing Rundown" procedure, so that my auditor and C/S would not get in trouble. Auditing truly was not for me, I was only playing along, for years, so I could someday get to the floating lightbulb with 360 degree perception somehow. The Encyclopedia Britanica article on "Mysticism", blew everything wide open again for me. In summary it says all the various mainline religions have sects that go for god union states, and the truth is that practically no one gets there. So Scn is just a current also-run competitor in the long history of grasping at dust-mote religious bliss seekers, in my opinion.

Reference: the book SNAPPING by Flo Conway and Jim Siegelman.


[Posted again to the Through the Door site, forgot that I already filled their survey
once! Excellent site for first posters, and you can post anonymously. I highly
recommend first posters using Through the Door.

Sunday, 25th July, 2004 02:06:11am

Name or Alias: E
Training and/or processing level: 120 plus pc folders
Org or location: FSO on upwards
Time involved in the Church of Scientology: Mega years
Recommended Website -

1. How did you first become acquainted with the Church of Scientology?

I was told to stay away from Scn, which was one of about 12 other new age practises I was told to stay away from. I phoned the org, to see if they were open. Then were about number 7 of my list of about 12 practises to check into.

2. What initially appealed to you about scientology?

L 10 or L 11 or L 12 promised exteriorization with full perception. That to me is the ultimate.

3. Were there problems in your life that you thought scientology would address?

No. I was a college student and open minded. I didn't think I had personal problems Scn would resolve. I just assumed the state of nirvana, and out-of-the-body, astral walking, existed, because so many other practises said they could attain the same state.

4. Did you see, experience, or hear about things that didn't seem right while you were in the Church of Scientology? What were they, and what convinced you to set aside your feelings?

Are you kidding? The f-ups of staff in the SO are legion. They have had so many unqualified staff, unhatted, slightly mentally off-balance people, doing so many wierd things over the years, but that is just that Scn is so desperate, and LRH thought all men's problems (exceptions are pysch destroyed people) could be handled on staff. This question is way too general. I can't answer such a general question. I have years of stores to tell. How about categorizing things. I'm a mega year SO vet. I could write several books on my experiences.

5. Why did you choose to stay in the Church of Scientology?

The glowing, nirvanna, hope of full exteriorization. Also once you are in it, meaning in my case the SO, you are on a 24/7 lifestyle, with kids your same age, sort of like a combination of high school, college, monestary, military like, all rolled into one. But more lenient than real strict military or monastic life. You can have sex with your spouse. Everyone is almost doing the same thing, in very close quarters in the SO. Once you are married, and adjusted to the lifestyle, it just rolls, year and year. Same kind of ups and downs, and mad incompetence on all sides, people getting busted, promoted, going up, going down. It's like a big family, high school clique after a while. If you have accepted the initial confinement of the SO, and can accept living like that, then it's just a life. Not middle class America, but a life.

6. Were you staff or public? If staff, was it at a mission or an org? Were you ever in the Sea Org or OSA? Which unit? If not on staff, did you ever volunteer to 'help out'? Staff, mega years. FSO on up, way up, Int level orgs.

7. Why did you leave the Church of Scientology? Was there a "final straw"?

Wanted a normal life again. Wanted to have evenings off. Wanted to read. I finally realized I'd be 24/7 the rest of my life in the SO. The goals were NOT being achieved. This planet is NOT being 'cleared', the OTs I've seen are just normal people, no steller 'big beings' being created. It is all NOT what was promised. It is a violation of the 'senior policy' policy letter by LRH. I wanted out, back to a normal life, where I could enjoy life. Where I could go out by myself, travel around, see nature, take weekends (two days!!) off each week. Being in the SO the last 9 years, I had NO days off. Only a few hours off each Sunday morning. I was TIRED of having dumber people than myself tell me what was good for me, when I did NOT agree that what they said was good for me, was NOT good for me. I disagreed with more LRH policies than I let myself believe. I began to think LRH was NOT such a great person after all. He was using us, I felt, to forward his grand goals. Fine goals, but the world is NOT buying the Scn religion. The world truly does NOT really want Scn, and the joke is that the Scn church execs at the church events of recent years try to counter this truth by just saying the 'world is dying for Scn's asnwers.' This is not true, no wog newspaper has ever published a story of any wog group reaching strongly for Scn. I also on the RPF in my final years, heard that each year for the New Years Event, it was a problem scraping up the good news to fill Miscavige's speeches. I hated how the top was usurped by Miscavige. I stopped agreeing with what Hubbard wrote. In the end his good words did not outweigh the major objections I found in many of his key policies. Miscavige has a revengeful cruel streak, and made enemies of people that a saner leader would not have done. LRH went nuts in the final years, and the relayers of info to him omitted enough info to skew LRH's advices to handle the mess, which it is doubtful LRH could have handled anyways. The SO has built-in destructive, degrading rules, that cause internal hatred amongst staff. I could not agree with Sea Org policies that brutally demean SO (Sea Org) members. The atmosphere at Int (the secret Int Base at Gilman Hot Springs outside Hemet California where the top execs and top 700 elite lifetime church staffers live and work, and run the whole movement) is colored by Miscavage's savage streak (spitting on staff, punching, pushing, threatening, his behaviour is far beyond what he could tolerate himself, he's a walking violation of key precepts of Hubbard's Way to Happiness in his viciousness to fellow staffers which he justifies continually with a selective reading of Hubbard's most vengeful and degrading policies and tapes -- the screaming Class 8 tape in particular, etc., etc.). It is a flawed group due to the policy defects Hubbard laid out for the SO. Final straw was being at an Int Base briefing, which are done every Friday night, if Miscavige is at the Int Base, then he does the briefing. He usually validates and/or berates the units and individuals who did well the previous week or did disastrously. I saw the group fear, despite all the life spirit in these 600-700 top SO members, working at the Int base (with the CST crew and ASI crew attending each week also), all the top SO members. Miscavage clearly the top dog. The mindset, with Miscavage in control, the total lack of real compassion for the lives especially for Gold staff. They are the lowest on the Int base totem pole, and catch the most shit, although any unit fu-cking up catches sh-t at the Int Base Friday night briefing, if serious enough. I hated the Int base justice mentality. The Comm Evs I read issued by Gold staff are vindictive, and violations of the most important justice principle about despite a person's guilt, their overall worth is taken into consideration when judging their innocence or guilt. If the wind is blowing against a person during their comm ev, in otherwords if RTC or CMO have written the person under Comm Ev off, then the committee toasts the guy. In otherwords opinion, instead of justice and worth, is senior at Int. The Int Base persons since they are isolated from society way out at Gillman Hot Springs, are out of touch, and lack compassion for the rest of humanity. For instance the Buddhists have to spend something like 4-6 months of the year living amongst the common people, teaching them, and living off the food given them by the people they teach. The top SO units all stay behind fences and trees in a secluded base outside Hemet, California, way off the beaten path. The top top guys envision themselves as 'flap' experts. All the 'flaps' of Scn are internally created by ignorance of life, incompetence, unhattedness, sometimes due to a personal defect in a staff member, but more often than not it is simply lack of good life experience on their jobs and in life. The Int Base is a visual showcase, but the actual impact on human lives is just not happening. I saw no great acceptance of Scn in my decades plus stay on SO staff. I saw none of the great goals being achieved, and I dread the US being run by SO or Scn rules. I concluded the rules in the wog world are truly better than the SO and LRH policy rules. The SO justice system is not reliable. LRH natters like no other leader in the world today. He had NO colleagues in the wog world who praised him. He only has people read the PR blurbs the church has written up about him, and wogs who praise him today are only able to spit back data they've been fed. If Scn staff and SO staff were as effective as they should be, and if scn tech actually did make WIDESPREAD changes, then I couldn't say what I've said. But there are no WIDESPREAD changes being produced enough that anyone in the wog world ON THEIR OWN are jumping up and praising Scn without the SO putting the words on teleprompters for the officials to mouth, so Gold cameramen capture the church's written PR blurbs on tape, being spoken by wog officials who were fed what to say. The Freedom Medal Winners each year are somewhat exceptions. If there were hundreds of them, and then people on their own, without any prompting rolled with Scn, those are the only ways I'd be wrong. America is not rolling with Scn, and the western european countries are NOT rolling with Scn, unprompted. The final straw was I was concluding that atheism is probably the direction I am going now. I hated the fake PR.

8. Do you think the Church of Scientology needs to change some of its practices? If so, what should be changed? How did those practices affect your life?

I will write extensively, probably a book, on this. I want to go right through the most important policies I think are wrong. I've been a trained church compiler, and wish to do justice to my extensive feelings of which policies need to be retired. I must have filled this quesitonaire out before. I seem to have answered this before.

9. If the items you listed in the previous question were changed, would you consider rejoining or staying in the Church of Scientology? If so, why?

No. Atheist.

10. Any additional comments you would like to make?

I would have liked to have a multi-part question asking forum, as I have so much to say. I am a decades plus ex-SO member.

9 OCMB Post #7
Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - 10:08 am:

To No8cnow, Regarding Homer, I was a green SO member at the Flag Land Base in mid 70's, and met Homer there at Clearwater. He was Dir RAM FSO, and Homer is one nice person. Kind of cantankerous, but heart of gold type of person. Very easy to respect him. I personally was shocked out of my shoes, when I read on the internet the story, of Miscvage spitting on him. To me, I respected Miscavage for his pure drive to get things done. He is a "fireball". But spitting on another human being, that just put me way off. It tipped the scale irrevocably against Miscavage once I read that incident. Especially since there was no LRH advice supporting that action with Homer, and it looked to me like a continuation of Miscavage's misapplication of LRH's figurative comment regarding the other guy Miscavage earlier spat on. Homer is a good guy, a very good guy. If you have a chance, (and I don't usually recommend this type of stuff), but you should listen to LRH's tape: About Rhodesia.

If you know PTS/SP tech, and know C/S Series 20 (about "psychotics"), compare the PTS/SP tech to what LRH says about SPs in the tape About Rhodesia. Homer, and most of the famous SO big-time "SPs" are not hard-core SPs and never were. The ethics gradient of SP declare was used on them, and they are labelled SPs. But they are not in fact SPs. Their core nature is NOT SP (per the P/L on Anti-Social personality). Listen to that tape if you ever have a chance. A few were screamers (Gleason, Franks, Sibersky), but by golly I've heard as bad and worse (spitting in Homer's face!!) of Miscavage. And I heard one Int staff get in trouble because he thought Miscavage SP. I don't think Miscavage is SP, he doesn't fit the About Rhodesia tape definition of SP either. He's been mean to people, abused his power, done all the things you read on the internet (many parts which are true), but compared to the tape About Rhodesia, Miscavage isn't an SP either.

On the Broekers, sorry I have no new data. I read on the Internet, the wife, Anne, blew in late 80's but she got recovered, and I believe today she is doing fine, uplines. I only briefly spoke to her once in the late 80's myself, when I was on the uplines RPF at the same time she was. She is a very nice person. You have to realize, that most of the people in the SO, and all of the guys who incorrectly blew, got declared, are all mainly good people. Under pressure, without training, without sleep, all sort of extenuating circumstances, people will do f-king wierd things, and then all hell breaks loose, tempers fly, etc., people blow, get revengeful, and messes occur at all levels in Scn church organizations. I hope Pat Broeker can write his experiences. I dream that he will, and maybe in the future, we'll read about them. My hope is that before the next 20-30 years, all the old-timer Sea Org people who blew or got declared, will write their histories. Once they all die, their viewpoints if not written down will be lost.

I wish someone would go interview them all, get their stories, their sides at least. And put them in a SO history site. Just for history's sake. The church doesn't want that kind of history I'm sure. Whatever.

10 OCMB Post #8
Posted on Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - 5:40 am:

Terril, Thanks. Where on the Freezone can I read the stories. I was thinking of Kerry Gleason, Alex Sibersky, Brian Livingston, Leon Steinberg, Murray Chopping, Bill Franks. Did any of them do autbiographical writings of their final moments n the Sea Org? I'd like to read what they and guys like them, had to say about what they think happened. I read all the Capt Bill postings, and I know Ralph Hilton, I worked on a project with him, he was the I/C, I was the 2nd. He'd remember me. I am not into the Freezone, not interested in Scn, in using or applying the tech or having it applied to me. But I am interested in just the historical events, and particularly the viewpoints of the above persons.

11 OCMB Post #9
Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 8:59 am:

Thanks Terril,
I found the Ken Urquhart posts. To me, Ken Urquhart is definitely one of the best sources on LRH, and for the periods he was with LRH. I knew, meaning, saw him plenty of times, never spoke to him, as he was "Pers Comm", and he was about as high as they went at the Flag Land Base, from Dec 75 to 78. I just now started reading his posts, and they are some of the best I've read. Besides MSH, who I also would like to see do some writing, critically, of LRH's life, and Pat Broeker, Ken is probably the best source of LRH. Looks like his last post was 2002. I hope he does more. I was at the Flag Land Base from Dec 75 to July 83, so I was there the period when Ken was Pers Comm at the FLB. He was a intense guy, very British, proper. He bore a lot of responsibility. I hated to see him, and so many other top execs get ground up to pieces. Anyways, thanks again.


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