Chuck Beatty
Internet Posts, January 2007


Subject: Are you thikig of leavig the Church? Should you trust Truth Seeker?
From: [email protected]
Date: Tues, Jan 2 2007 10:29 am
Email: "[email protected]"
Groups: alt.religion.scientology

[looks like a letter from someone trolling for OT texts and NOTs:]


> Man, I can't seem to get a reply. I posted about getting my hands on

> OT texts and NOT's. I keep getting hit by trolls. Can somebody put me
> in the right direction?
> My email is [email protected]

> I need 'em for a philosophy class. I've got a bunch of Scientologists
> in there and I'm trying to prove that they've got no tenable hold of
> reason in our Scientology debates (don't ask me how this made its way
> into our debating forum--I just plan on getting it the fuck back out
> ASAP). But I need details on their religion so I can get the big
> picture.


Regarding the incident on earth 75 million years ago, Hubbard speaks of its importance to all people "in this sector" of the galaxy, on a famous lecture that is distribution for all Scientology staff and students, thus your classmates in the debate who are Scientologists are free to be exposed to it, since Hubbard himself is speaking.'s_Journal_67

There are also a couple audio clips included on some of the anti-Scientology small productions on YouTube and GoogleVideo. Hubbard clearly says the name Xenu Xemu, so there is no doubt about the word Xenu's being something out of Hubbard's mouth.

I'd bring a laptop along to class and play the LRH lecture where LRH is mentioning all the Section III and Xenu stuff, and take your debate from there.

There's plenty of newspaper articles that have reported that no outbreak of sickness or persons dying has resulted, and Hubbard clearly speaks about the lethality of the "material" on his Ron's Journel lecture.

One of the purposes of the religious order of the church called the Sea Organization (the people who sign billion year contracts dedicating their future lives to coming back and rejoining the Sea Org for up to a billion years in the future until the whole job of clearing planet earth and delivering the OT materials of Hubbard to enough people to safeguard earth for the long range undoing of the whole dwindling spiral of all the broad universe by the bad guys out there who've ruined the whole universe per Hubbard.

As you read deeply into Scientology's green and red volumes, and listen to the lectures Hubbard gives to students, where he casually comments about the bigger scenario, and as you progress in your training as an auditor, you also see Hubbard scripted church films on some of Hubbard's very long into the future ideas.

The legacy of prolific writings and lectures guiding and directing the whole body of Scientologists is unquestionably science-fiction-esque, once you expose yourself to all of the Hubbard long term future hopes and goals.

The today church's internal Sea Org computer organization, called INCOMM, is entrusted, and has still to accomplish, building a computer system based on Hubbard's recall of a computer system that functioned in a far more successful millions of years ago space civilization.

Hubbard in the big green volumes and, in several very significant taped lectures, makes mention that the church policy he is laying down at the time of those church policies and lectures, is based on his recall of what he remembers in past space civilizations.

Hubbard unquestionably draws on the space opera past recall and he envisions Scientology's impact will carry forward inevitably way into the future of life all over the universe, example is the film for training Class 6 auditor trainees on the Saint Hill Special Briefing Course, where the film, scripted by Hubbard, cautions the Class 6 students to be sure to have studied Hubbard's writings well, because at some distant time they will inevitably find themselves as the sole future "Scientology" practitioner on some future planet amidst some decaying space civilization, and it will be up to them to get Scientology going there, and LRH in this particular training film gives them some important vital tips.

Hubbard absolutely thinks HUGE. He thinks far into the future.

The Sea Organization religious order of the movement are the ones who are supposed to be thinking along these same future lines, and are entrusted to carry out the church's ambitious plans.

Use materials that the church prints and gives out itself, my favorite Hubbard public domain document for giving new readers a glimpse of Hubbard's skill as a movement founder and director, is give people a copy of Hubbard's 1965 policy letter entitled "Keeping Scientology Working."

That document clearly shows Hubbard's style of inspiration, authoritarianism (malign in many people's opinions who've lived within the "show"), and this to me gives people a legitimate "out" to make their way safely back out of Scientology, since Hubbard makes the bold bluff statement that people who are going to quit Scientology should be allowed to quit fast. Hubbard's magnanimousness about opting out of his subject, is overshadowed by his genuine feelings in this same policy writing, where he strongly although figuratively states he'd rather have people dead than incapable in their standard application of his universe changing/salvaging "technology."

To me, this below policy studied alone, is the best single essay by Hubbard, an essay given IMMENSE importance within the staff ranks of Scientology, and these words carefully digested should forworn and win any argument poking valid criticism at the church's hyperbolic claims about its importance.

Chuck Beatty
Ex-Sea Org (lifetime staffer, 1975-2003)
Flag Dec 1975-Jun 1983 (TTC, Sup, Word Clearer, D of T, etc.)
Int Base 1983-1984 (Routing Forms Pjt)
Snr HCO Int in the FB in LA 1984-87 Re-Training (Int and LA) 87-88
Int Training Org, LA 88 (Sec Checker Sup)
LRH Tech Research and Comps, CMO Int, (Sept 88-Feb 89)
Int RPF (Feb-Mar 89)
PAC RPF (Mar-May 89)
Int Training Org (May-Sept 89) (Admin Sup)
INCOMM Sep 89-Sept 90 (Routing Forms Pjt)
INCOMM Sept 90-May92 (Computer Room LA & Int)
ASI May 92-Dec95 (Computer Room, In-Training Esto)
Decks Int (Dec 95-Jun 96)
Int RPF (Jun 96-Nov 2000)
PAC RPF (Nov 2000-Mar2003)
Routed out March 29, 2003.
Join XSO and network to old Sea Org friends:
I live in Pittsburgh, anyone feel free to call
me anytime: 412-260-1170

From: chuckbeatty77
Date: Fri, Jan 5 2007 10:57 am
Email: "chuckbeatty77"
Groups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: FSO's income has per rumor dropped from the 2-4 million a week range down to only 1 million a week range.

The FSO isn't able to cover all it's basics in recent years (2-4 years).

Also in recent years, not sure which year exactly (I hope more ex middle management staff will give the exact date), the FSM commission payments are paid when a parishioner COMPLETES their service. It formerly was the case that FSM commission payments were made when the parishioner made their donation and hadn't started their service yet.

The problem over the years is that the church has been backlogging payment for services, but then for a variety of reasons the parishioners haven't then started their services. This puts the church at risk of refunds for all the services NOT delivered! Current refund policy says undelivered services are refunded in full when the parishioner asks for a refund of his undelivered services.

The rumor I heard is that the total BACKLOGGED and UNDELIVERED services which have been paid for but which have NOT been yet delivered is over a billion dollars.

Sounds like an incredible rumor, and needed are some former middle management Sea Org members all of whom have access to the church's international statistics, and who could confirm this figure of a billion dollars undelivered overall services.

Needed is someone from Middle Management (Flag Liaison Office in Hollywood Guarantee Building) to somehow leak out the current statistics of these points.

Staff are not conscious of pretending that the tech and system works, since in their daily lives they do see the momentary unmistakeable and undeniable "wins" and advances in their fellow parishioners and they have their momentary wins which also inevitably appear "permanent" (I concluded this, realizing myself while I was on the RPF, that everyone, inside and out of the Scientology movement, people who's lives are improving will attribute their improvement to whatever it is they are doing, whether they are doing Scientology or something else, so I concluded that "improvement" is guaranteed for most people no matter what they do in life, Scientology's just hitching itself onto something that occurs naturally to most people in life ANYWAYS).

I've also heard rumors of some very major ex members now being disgraced, denegrated and either blown or routed out (in all cases they are declared Suppressive), and these are the 30 year plus veteran Sea Org members who in general still love LRH, but have just an intense loathing of what David Miscavige has wrought the last 10 years or less.

Marty Rathbun has INDEED blown, confirmed by someone I completely trust.

There is a whole bunch of top ranked, ex Sea Org members, WAY top ranking people, now out.

I hope they somehow surface, and I think it is inevitable that some will surface.

There is a deep deep feeling of hopelessness of how to dislodge Miscavige, a complete helplessness about that, internally.

Miscavige has brutally made himself uncorrectable even within the latitude of Hubbard administrative procedures that supposedly are to exist even at the top ranks of the movement.

Miscavige has been immune from correction or challenge or any type of change.

I have never heard such bitter deep apathy about Miscavige's oppressive control at the top of the Scientology movement, from people of 30 years plus high ranking.

Again my opinion is that only public media impact David Miscavige, only the media can hold him accountable, and to do that, media need the firsthand material from ex members who've experienced firsthand David Miscavige's oppressive control tactics in the last 10 years at the top ranks of the Scientology movement.

Needed are middle management ex people to speak up about the statistics and this point about the FSM commission payment.

And needed are ex top ranking members to meet with one another, regain some strength enough to speak out and expose, even if as a group, the long years of oppressive control tactics employed and urged and still kept in place as of 2006, by David Miscavige, head of the Scientology movement.

Chuck Beatty
Ex-Sea Org (lifetime staffer, 1975-2003)
Flag Dec 1975-Jun 1983 (TTC, Sup, Word Clearer, D of T, etc.)
Int Base 1983-1984 (Routing Forms Pjt)
Snr HCO Int in the FB in LA 1984-87 Re-Training (Int and LA) 87-88
Int Training Org, LA 88 (Sec Checker Sup)
LRH Tech Research and Comps, CMO Int, (Sept 88-Feb 89)
Int RPF (Feb-Mar 89)
PAC RPF (Mar-May 89)
Int Training Org (May-Sept 89) (Admin Sup)
INCOMM Sep 89-Sept 90 (Routing Forms Pjt)
INCOMM Sept 90-May92 (Computer Room LA & Int)
ASI May 92-Dec95 (Computer Room, In-Training Esto)
Decks Int (Dec 95-Jun 96)
Int RPF (Jun 96-Nov 2000)
PAC RPF (Nov 2000-Mar2003)
Routed out March 29, 2003.
Join XSO and network to old Sea Org friends:
I live in Pittsburgh, anyone feel free to call
me anytime: 412-260-1170

From: Ex Scientology site

Date: Jan 13, 2007

[QUOTE=Sky;465]Oh, and I would love to hear your stories Kookaburra and Chuck. I always wondered about how the Work Study program got started. I remember asking for a reference on it from one of the people in charge of the work study program, but they always put me off. I finally asked the Qual Librarian and was directed to some telex that was from Ron that basically said to have the OOTs work for Flag part-time if their org couldn't pay for them. I tried to talk to the work study people about it, but they were very put off by my apparent unwillingness to keep my exchange in. When I told them I felt like [I]they[/I] were out exchange with [I]me[/I], they were flabbergasted. It was useless trying to reason with them.[/QUOTE]

Hi Sky,

I was a new Sea Org member, joined 12 Dec 1975, and arrived at the Fort Harrison to join the Flag Service Org (FSO) as an FSO TTC trainee, on 19 Dec 1975.

I was on the FSO TTC from then until about Jun of 1977, and in Jun 1977 I became an admin courses sup at Flag from 77 till 83, with one year I was demoted to word clearer.

The OOT work study started I think in 1976, 77 or 78. And at the time I am sure (like with most everything) LRH had no idea of all the ramifications of his order in that telex/despatch that you read.

First off LRH was slightly contradicting himself. He'd already ordered that trainees coming to Flag were billed for their service, and their orgs paid Flag back for their training. There was NO work study from students expected to be given to to the FSO, so the immediate question that should have been raised is WHY is LRH saying trainees do work study to FC!

It is stupid, it's a stupid mistake on LRH's part.

LRH's order that FC ought to put the people to work, is a response to FC's income problems. I believe the old old CO FC in despatch weekly traffic to LRH commented to LRH about how FC was providing all the meals and berthing by not getting any money in return.

LRH stupidly said put them to work.

LRH's shoot from the hip unevaluated order then has caused a problem ever since.

What LRH should have done is send the CO FC's despatch down to one of the Commodore's Staff Aides and asked for a solution per existing policy.

But no, LRH likes to micro-manage, and he created a new problem, and solved an immediate, supposedly, personnel shortage need in FC and try to pressure orgs to pay their FC bills, to help FC's income needs.

LRH SHOULD have more smartly said consistently with his earlier policy, that FC should bill and collect from the orgs just like the FSO bills and collects from the orgs.

So the work study problem is LRH's bad decision stupid order to put the trainees on work study.

This is LRH's fault. One could blame the FC people whining to LRH, that LRH solved their problem with this order, but it only has added stress and bitterness and today the dull bureaucractic system of work study they've settled on.

Back in 1977-1983 period I was a training course sup at Flag, there were numerous times when CO's of the Int Training Org, or the FBEC arranged deals with Flag Crew so as NOT to have the trainees on work study, and there were years, months, off and on battles between the training org's seniors who wanted to just get their students completed and back home, so sometimes in the years I was at Flag, the ITO (Int Training Org) seniors stuck up for the work study students.

Also the Programs Chief for the Class 5 trainees also used to beat on FC to lighten up and let their trainees get DONE with their training!

This is classic LRH forgetfulness and incompetence as a decider, when everyone today tries to make EVERY LRH decision RIGHT in context, this is truly a typical example of a bad LRH decision that should have simply been answered to CO FC with the order that CO FC follow exisitng policy to bill the orgs for their rent at Flag, just like the FSO bills the orgs for the training the students receive. And the students also sign papers saying they will pay back their training fees if they blow staff.

Same for students getting free rent at FC, the students should sign similar papers saying they will pay back FC for their rent, if the blow their org contracts when they return to their orgs after their Flag training is complete.

Simple. LRH caused this bitterness inducing counterproductive rule and it's typical of countless other counterproductive rules he injected into the bureaucracies which movement staffers juggle and suffer the predicaments of.

Hey Sky, who was your "terminal" to complain to, while you were at Flag training.

In my days, the Flag Bu, now the FLO, was at the FLB, so if the Programs Chief of a Class 5 org trainee cared at all, the trainee at least met their Programs Chief, and the Programs Chief sometimes stuck up for the trainee.

Do Flag trainees have ANYONE who sticks up for them that they can complain to legitimately?

In my days, the FLB was full of Sea Org personalities, each trying to rise up the pecking order, and willing to stick their necks out more and do what they thought was right, and find a way through the predicaments that LRH's orders always seemed to cause.

I think CMO sided with FC, and this work study battle trickled up to WDC and it was resolved between WDC FSO and WDC Scn and WDC SO and whoever, at CMO Int level, and it was resolved that work study was valid.

Your description of how the Flag outer/org and public MAAs deal with their particles, it just has evolved into impersonal dull procedures.

This is truly just a process of watching how Hubbard's rules cause people to act out these bizarre predicaments on each other.

Back in 1975-1983, we didn't have the rigamarole about "F/Ning" meter checks, since there was no non-audited metering and no legitimate "non-F/N" situations allowed.

A non-F/N was considered a red tag in my days at Flag, and would have meant some auditor would me auditing the trainee who was not F/Ning, especially after writing up O/Ws!

The rules slipped in, that one went to write up more OWs.

Back in my day, that would have gotten you a session, first time you non F/Ned.

That turn of events allowing people to be "BIs" after OW meter checks, how that is officially allowed to be condoned, is a major goof on whoever's parts this falls on.

No one should be going on weeks being told to write up more OWs, that is another example of dull bureaucracy rules prevailing over the admin scale purpose of "helping" people rise UP!

Needs some new rule to bust MAAs when ANY of their Ethics particles are found going more than 1 week not F/Ning after a complete OW writeup.

You see the type of things that have developed. Rules to slap around staff who are just trying to do what they think Hubbard said for them to do.

In my days, the trainees had their Programs Chiefs and at least execs in the training org to sympathize with them, if trainees were BIs, the Programs Chief would raise some hell with FSO or FC, and the FSO Qual, and either get the traineee Fitness Boarded back to their orgs, or the trainee helped.

But again, this is just FC, FSO, and FB execs juggling problems that shouldn't even exist!

There should be no after OW writeup meter checks, there shouldn't even be OW writeups, honestly.

There shouldn't be work study.

These are stupid rules, they should all just be appropriately nullified so as not to cause trainees problems.

And the funny thing this is incompetence in the ranks underneath LRH at the time, and more importantly, these are LRH goofs.

In my days I think behind the scenes there was more "noise" being made by FSO and Programs Chiefs versus the FC people trying to enforce the stupid LRH mistake order that no one in top management were of sufficient presence to question and get LRH to cancel. If I in hindsight, were Treasury Aide, I'd have written a CSW to LRH saying that FC is to treat traineess like the FSO treats trainees, which is NO work study program, but FC bills and collects from orgs just like FSO does. Period. But the Aides and management at the top weren't thinking like that. There wasn't a internal top management trend of Commodore's Staff Aides willing to question LRH's orders and contravene them with reference to earlier LRH policy, since Hubbard had knocked back hard on people not complying with his orders, and the mindset in top management unfortunately had not developed to question and correct LRH's goofs like these above!

In my days, there were more people who failed frankly, and were sent home. In fact, of the original 90-100 TTCers of the FSO that I was amongst, within 2 short years, only 12-15 remained, the rest failed, and these were Flag Service Org staff TTCers.

That also was probably why the work study wasn't a situation, longterm, since people on work study also were sort of the less valued staff.

Sounds like today more qualified people in general are sent for training, there is more a higher caliber of people, and the dull bureaucratic pains of work study are enforced even long range, on trainees who did NOT expect to be sent to Flag to become maids, cook assts, and cleaners.

I noticed that rank and file Sea Org members are unbelievably NOT up to asking or questioning the rules as valid.

In my days, the people at Flag argued back and forth about LRH's orders, and would have at least tried to sympathize with the outer org trainees complaining about the things you mention.

Today, I sense Flag staff have more of a robotic application of the drummed in routines and they think that gains them a niche in the system and safety.

Things were much more spotty, less qualified trainees, more openness to work out ways around what were perceived as LRH orders that could be questioned based on higher admin scaled purposes or policies, in my days.

The training evolutions were in my opinion effective, since MORE people got trained during evolutions, even though these impersonal bureaucratic setups evolved to deal with the flow of the particles.

It is a tradeoff.

The tradeoff of an impersonal bureaucracy is unfortunately what's now evolved in the Scientology movement's echelons.

I saw the same in the RPF at PAC, although on the RPF, there is more leeway to actually be kind to one's fellow Sea Org member, ironically. But the same sort of overload (fake overload due to so many goddamn requirements per so many LRH references that the MAAs and the execs all try to juggle and comply with simultaneously) that the net result is the dull slow moving molases pace bureaucracy that's now evolved on public service lines at Flag.

Meter checks are such a harmful conditioning experience in my opinion.

One's not really suppressive if one thinks that one is suppressive.

As-issing one's overts is a relief and one can finally "F/N." Not "F/Ning" means one is troubled by something, and it better not be "natter" since that means more "overts."

It is a mental vicious circle, and believe me, every person goes through this and figures their way out of it, one way or the other.

So one has to do as you said, manufacture and pretend to be troubled by certain types of blatant known "overts" so one has something to "run" or "writeup", so that one can squeeze out an "F/N" so one can goddamn get on through the jungle of bureaucratic crap so one finally gets somewhere up the line on the golden "Bridge to Total Freedom" in keeping with one's original goals.

And what really becomes a problem, is after years (or shorter) of this, you develope a sluggish needle, then god help you. You are in trouble.

In 1975-76, one of the things that Internes on the auditor interneship used to chat about, when trading around their pcs to one another, trying to hoard a good pc that would get them through the interneship, was what was the "needle" like of the pc.

High TA pc and sluggish needle, and that pc wasn't a wanted pc by the internes.

I respected the trainees who would take on the high TA dirty needle or sluggish needle pcs, since that is what the goddamn movement was supposed to be about.

Flag used to be about cracking cases, taking in the worst pcs (either messed up by outer orgs and missions or simple naturally sluggish needle dirty needly high TA cases) from the field, and fixing them up with good standard Flag auditor impeccable TRs assesssments, the C/S 53 and Green Form 40XXX, and crack the person's goddamn case.)

I respected Lieke Halders (whatever her last name is now), Sheryl Licciardi, Ron Norton, and the "Case Cracking" auditors at Flag who DID really tame some of those pcs who came to Flag to get their cases cracked, supposedly.

There is a huge huge aura of confidence exuded by those auditors who do confront and crack the high TA sluggish needle, dirty needle cases. Those that did this case after case, after case, or so the myth goes, that's what Flag used to be all about.

And then those in good shape did the upper Flag rundowns, the Ls, where one is supposedly gonna go exterior with visio, and that's it, period.

All the bureuacracy crap that leads up to making case cracking top notch auditors, I mean, when I was a Flag, really, all one had to do was just do that LRH saying about rekindle the failed purpose and the stops blow at once.

It takes some people with heart to run the Scientology movement, and I bet there are some still in it.

I respected then and now those who did put their hearts into it.

I think now it is the heart people put into Scientology is what I respect, it is just their normal innate good humane character than I respected about those in the movement.

The rules have won, and LRH's idiotic goofs are just causing the major and minor problems that Scientologists perpetrate on one another, trying to outthink the inappropriate rules and try to employ some LRH rule that lets the pc or student "win."

I am appalled now, when I step back and realize how many stupid stupid administrative little rules and technical data one is juggling while trying to "keep the lines flowing" and keeping people moving through their training and up the Grade Chart on the training side of things.

I think the pluspoint is the people. People being generally good people, that is the best thing about all the artificial and stupid rules connected to the Scientology movement.

Their problems at Flag are letting their bureaucractic rules dominate and stamp out people's innate goodness.

I gotta say the people who played their roles, did the jumping to LRH's tunes, I respect them all.

The "tone level" of the MAAs responsible to make the decisions of letting someone who's landed in ethics be complete with their ethics handling and return to course or processing at Flag, and how those MAAs withstand and defend their decisions to their seniors and to RTC locals or CMO locals or to the LRH Comm or the FLB execs, it is up to that MAA to hold their ground.

That is why I said on another forum, that what counts and defends one admist this juggling of seniors and trying to do something useful to the "ethics particle people" is the following and being sure of oneself and an expert on Hubbard's writings/orders/despatches/policies and being around Hubbard and outthink even Hubbard in coming up with some Hubbard tune to whistle at the right time, so that everyone comes out happy.

THAT bullpen, that years of understanding and juggling ALL of Hubbard's output about things, and somehow NOT buckling and going downtone while one is on the job at Flag trying to "help" people, I respect those who did this juggled all the LRH idiocies, and still treated their fellow Scientologist decently.

In a nutshell Hubbard created a "malign authoritarian" system. Only the nicest smartest people make anything good of it.

In 1977 or 78, out of about 35 -50 students in the admin course room, only about 5-7 were on work study.

In my year as Admin Courses sup at Flag, I'd never had more than 5-7 students on work study, and sometimes less.

Chuck Beatty

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