Chuck Beatty
Internet Posts, December 2007

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Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77"
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 18:49:41 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sat, Dec 1 2007 9:49 pm
Subject: Re: Abilities


> > > I found a thread where a gentleman was claiming he could hear the
> > > difference between similar audio cables. Randi was accused of
> > > switching the specs for the cables at the last moment. That was sort
> > > of a tricky one because some cables are superior enough that it would
> > > make an audible difference.

> > > If Randi's venturing into claims from the audio industry now, to me it
> > > shows he's already exhausted the "more supernatural" claims... so I
> > > remain anxious to see Fluff's evidence


> > And I'm biased against Randi.

> > This, undoubtedly, is based on what I would ~like~ to believe...

> > I'm not immune to bias and wishful thinking.

> > ;->

> > C

> >

> On Nov 29, 9:37 am, RolandRB wrote:

> I replied to this yesterday but it didn't go through...

> Your reply was thoughtful and balanced. But I'd like to point out
> there are dozens (perhaps 30-40 worldwide) associations offering
> prizes for performing paranormal abilities under observation. At some
> point, you just have to wonder why no one has claimed ~any~ of them
> yet. Back in the beginning of last century Houdini was part of a team
> offering a prize. No one was able to win it. There have been other
> prizes offered in the past, no winners.

> So even assuming Randi is a total cheat and will never pay out the
> prize (which I don't assume), even to someone who passes the test...
> that still doesn't explain why no one has ever won any of these
> challenges throughout history and throughout the world.- Hide quoted text -

Thanks for the info.

I concluded, in my waning support for Scientology, that ALL mystical groups professing supernaturally improved people ALL of them don't deliver the goods.

Our world would be transformed already, our lives would already be a science fiction world, with "adepts" in government high posistions doing their supernatural jobs and we'd have laws protecting us normal people from exploitive supernatural people.

We on earth simply do NOT have any mystically supernaturally improved humans amongst us of universal and dramatic convincing abilities.

If we did, there'd be a transformation of earth culture.

It would be earth shattering if there were some genuinely supernaturally improved humans around, and there's simply NO humans with consistent supernatural powers to impress and gain the recognition convincingly of their supernatural powers.

There is just a lot of hype from the whole gamut of mystical and mystical like groups, all sharing the same hope and hype for supernatural mystical powers, with small groups of people believing, but NO dramatic convincing proof that is consistently demonstrated by any single person to cause some widespread belief. It's pockets of belief based on spotty demonstrations that isn't duplicatible for ANY of these prizes.

Our world would already be transformed if we had supernaturally improved humans amongst us!

I gave up on dualism (belief in body and spirit), and I'm a materialist again.

I like Steven Pinker and John Searle, google video some of their talks!

Chuck Beatty

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77"
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:02:43 -0800 (PST)
Local: Tues, Dec 11 2007 1:02 pm
Subject: Re: How many osa scientologists must post here?

On Dec 10, 11:10pm, [email protected] wrote:

> I don't think the hard numbers are as significant as the fact that OSA
> continues to be relentless at subverting this newsgroup.

> OSA has always been understaffed and relies on volunteers to do much
> of the work. These posters are people who ought to be on course or in
> session, or doing FSM work. Instead they are involved in non-
> production by posting idiotic, off topic, or incomprehensible
> messages.

> Remember that every single OSA post is a reminder that ARS is
> effectively draining their manpower resources, which is already spread
> very thin.

I fully agree.

And further, plain and simple discussion of the OT 3 and NOTs theology limits further the OSA staff who are authorized to read ARS postings!

It is a very important insider piece of information to KEEP IN MIND that discussing NOTs and OT 3 information ARS further limits which Scientologists can even read the posts that contain the OT 3 and NOTs theology.

Scientologists have to absolutely take Hubbard's rules seriously. His penalties for publicly discussing OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 theology are extreme.

The NOTs theology and OT 3 theology state that all humans are infested with clusters of thousands of souls (body thetans) which are attached to our bodies, and these body thetans are mainly in dormant and amnesia tranced.

But these body thetans (the surplus souls of the billions of people murdered by Xenu here on earth 75 million years ago in the dozen or so volcanos then here on earth) are ready to kick into action and respond to the thoughts and intentions of Scientologists who think thoughts that trigger and wake up the dorman body thetans that infest every Scientologist (and all humans are infested with thousands of body thetans/surplus souls)

When Scientologists get more OT and more powerful spiritually, their thoughts wake up and trigger body thetans into pesky reactions against the Scientologist.

This is is ALL taken very seriously, and due to Hubbard's rules, the lower "case level" Scientologists are supposed to NOT know about the body thetans infestation condition, for fear the lower case level Scientologists will trigger out of control reactions of their loads of body thetans.

Hubbard gives the most extreme penalties to Scientologists for discussing the body thetans spiritual predicament of all human beings openly.

Normal Scientologists are pretty much indoctrinated to "be interested in their own cases." The whole Scientology deal is people talk freely about their "cases" to the auditor/counselor.

One only talks about one's case in session with the auditor/ counselor. Those are the strict Hubbard rules.

The definition of "in session" is the state of mind that Scientologists are supposed to be freely happy to discuss their mental reactions and memories.

Being "in session" when one is being counseled is a good thing in Scientology. But casually wondering about one's case outside of the formal session is rigidly considered a BAD thing.

Thus wondering about one's load of body thetans causing one pesky problems is a really BAD thing and Hubbard made extremely harsh rigid rules to prevent this.

So, again, the free discussion of OT 3 and NOTs theology, specifically our body thetans infestation, is what is absolutely taboo, and thus only NOTs case level Scientologists are even allowed to read posts that discuss the NOTs theology here on ARS.

Thinking outside of session about one's load of body thetans, and wondering how many body thetans are awake and causing a Scientologist problems, THAT'S the big deal about why Hubbard thought it horrible to discuss or chat about body thetans OUTSIDE of formal Scientology processing sessions.

They are only supposed to think about their "cases" while in session and engaging in Hubbard's detailed spiritual "tech" procedures.

The OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 levels of the Scientology/Hubbard Bridge to Total Freedom deal with the surplus souls (body thetans) problem/ predicament of every human being on earth.

Discussion of body thetans and the infestation problem, and the OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 levels is out of bounds, and will limit the Scientologists who can even read the postings on ARS.

I think threads on NOTs theology should be ongoing all the time.

After 27 years in the movement, I only found out about our supposed pesky body thetans infestation problem since reading the NOTs Indoc Series 1 writing on the internet.

I highly recommend ex members read the NOTs Indoc Series 1 if they want to see what LRH wrote about the body thetans problem.

Thanks to the posters who keep posting the NOTs theology, I found those writings and discussions to be the most satisfying in even answering to my curiosity what it was that the very lop levels of the Scientology Bridge to Total Freedom are all about!

My discovering that OT level 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 have to do with ridding a person of their attached body thetans (the surplus souls on earth due to the massive Genocide committed by the space alien leader named Xenu, the genocide occured 75 million years ago and about a dozen volcanos on earth were the killings fields of this galactic level genocide of billions of people at that time), was a very satisfying event for me.

I finally learned what it was that I was working to help other Scientologists attain!

In my 27 years in the movement, I only got up to Clear! (And I felt I could not be legitimately Clear, and I fell back down the Bridge to Total Freedom back to "Grade 0" which is right near the bottom!)

Scientologists who get up to OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 of Hubbard's Scientology Bridge to Total Freedom spend the longest amounts of time dealing with their supposed loads of body thetans, during their years spent completing OT levels 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7.

Chuck Beatty

clambake chat site

Posted: 21 Dec 2007 17:07

rickybobbybabyjesus wrote:

I'll insinuate again, if I was the target of black PR, i'd probably use the same tactics back. all bets are off when it comes to people messing with me and mine. and you wouldn't need the harassing person's phone number to do this, if you're an exscientologist you know the people doing this.


[chuck answer]

The world's full of all types of people.

Smearing isn't necessarily against the law, but it reflects on the character or principles of those who systematically smear their fellows.

I don't go there, since dull historical facts are fine enough for me.

I didn't buy the smearing of Scientology when I started Scientology. It didn't keep me from entering Scientology's world 27 years ago when I jumped onto the Scientology Bridge to Total Freedom (not). (I spent over two weeks off and on in the Arizona State Univ library reading all the negative news and magazine articles on Hubbard, Dianetics and Scientology, and none of the stuff I read was enough to keep me OUT of Scientology).

So smearing against me now, and smearing done by Scientology BACK at those people Scientology officially targets, that doesn't bother me now either. I seem to be able to hold in a pending basket in my mind smear material, and I also do ponder what prompted smearing, in all directions, but I don't get sidetracked.

The core that attracked me to Scientology was that Scientology claims to make OTs, which are supernaturally improved people.

If I had read a good article about how NO mystical group is able to accomplish this, and that ALL mystical type groups are all fakes, I think I might have come to my senses back when I jumped aboard Scientology, but I missed that.

I most respect people with sufficient judgement who see through smearing in all directions today.

When Scientology goes into smear mode, their reason and rationality is lost, and it's another reason respect for Scientology disappears. But those who defend Scientology, still grant Scientology the laudable characteristics of a "religion" or self-help group. Smearing done by Scientology isn't sufficient to tank people's support for Scientology.

Smearing tactics Scientology engages in is just one of the sideline issues of why Scientolgy is offensive.

It fits into Hubbard's character, and Hubbard's reaction to the outside world's distaste for Hubbard's ideas and hyped claims about Dianetics and Scientology.

I hope they stop their systematic smearing tactics someday.

But I don't think they have the option, since Hubbard wrote so many policies and orders which are the domain of the Office of Special Affairs, so the Scientology top bureaucrats are sort of stuck with following Hubbard's orders, even though he's dead.

They don't have the option to decide NOT to use his orders to them of what they are supposed to do when they are "attacked."

Hubbard gave them procedures to follow to "attack back" and smearing is one of their ordered options in the Hubbard repertoire he's left them stuck with.

That's all this is, when you get your head above it all.

But still, the smearing controversey in the end of the day is a sideline issue.

I think the biggest disappointment with Scientology is that it does NOT produce OTs who are not just normal people.

Scientology produces NO supernatural abilities

It just gets people into thinking they are infested with surplus souls from a space opera fantasy 75 million year ago genocide that a space leader named Xenu perpetrated using earth's dozen or so volcanos as the killing field, and NOW these surplus billions of extra souls infest all human's bodies, and only OT 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 levels will rid a person of their surplus burden of tens of thousands of "body thetans" (surplus souls) that infest us all supposedly.

That's what Scientology leads a person into accepting as reality.

No ESP, no out of the body travel at will (this was the hook for me, the out of the body guaranteed causative ability).

Scientology does NOT deliver and it is not the members and ex members' faults.

It is Hubbard who hitched a ride on humankind's HOPE factor for these supernatural spiritual abilities which NO mystical group has been able to deliver any time convincingly in human history.

I can understand why Scientology is considered a "con", because it does NOT deliver on out of the body guaranteed ability, like is implied in books like "Creation of Human Ability."

Best, Chuck Beatty
ex-Sea Org (1975-2003)
412-260-1170 I live in Pittsburgh

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77"
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 16:47:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Ex Scientolgist Message Board - A Warning

On Dec 15, 8:54am, Rev Dennis L Erlich wrote:

> "chuckbeatty77" wrote:
> >I second this! Dennis, reading your posts just blew open some things
> >for me, and the humor, because I know you, received dozens of hours of
> >cramming from you when you were the Cram Off at Flag, 1976-1978, off
> >and on, I knew what your voice sounds like, what kind of person you
> >are, so your words DID have a good effect on me!

> Thanks Chuck.

> >Thanks! I agree with the inspiration aspect, as someone I respected
> >standing up and delivering the needed bitter humor at Hubbard.

> I think it's always inspirational to see someone standing up and
> speaking out publicly against injustice. Not everyone has the
> temperament to do it. Being one who does is both a curse and a
> blessing.

> Be well,
> Dennis

Truly! If not for the gaffe 1980s and 1990s Freedom Mag articles promoting the great evil enemies of Scienotlogy (you Dennis, Arnie and Gerry Armstrong), and I already told you, I was so happy to read in the Freedom mag you were only a relatvie stone's throw away from the RPF camp in Happy Valley, where I repeat again, if someone read my pc folders and my Int RPF sec checking of Spring 1997, they'd see how often you Dennis Erlich are mentioned in my escape scenario confessions! In Nov-Dec 1996 after only 4 months of the Int RPF, I finally spoke up and requested to route out of the Sea Org. Then starting in Feb 1997 I started getting serious auditing, Rich Gilbert did it, I liked Rich, and Bruce Hines Case Supervised my "routing out" auditing. I just got the full blown RPF program auditing, starting with the Green Form 40XXX, resistive case handling, which I put with for two months, then I said I wanted to go! I got the sec checking stuff and during that, that's when I started confessing my non stop escape plans, and that's when you Dennis became sort of my ultimate escape plan person who I planned to make my first phone booth escape phone call to.

It is hard to imagine for those who have not lived the Sea Org life and accepted the Hubbard constraining options, because when one asks to "route out" (leave the Sea Org) one gets put on the treadmill "handling" to counter ones desire to leave, and the whole Hubbard panoply of dogma and theory are stacked up against the person who wants to get the hell out of the Sea Org and Scientology. Hubbard allows no legitimate options to leave.

In that climate of Sea Org RPF members following Hubbard's theory, it's a mental challenge to remain unfrustrated. My heartfelt requests for a realistic dialogue with the then RPF I/C Chris Guider were met with "no answer" and my communication asking respectfully to be allowed to swiftly route out, my requests were ignored.

I never got over the systemic rejection one feels by staff operating on what they think is Hubbard dogma. One is stigmatized and one is expected to accept the Hubbard views about oneself.

That to me now is what is so evidently wrong with Hubbard's system. Hubbard denies people a positive view of themselves in opposition to Hubbard's ideas. Hubbard is so autocratically and arrogantly self- assured that Hubbard denied followers the option to ever hold a validly critical view back at Hubbard! And his Sea Org rules, his regular tech, his policies, all intertwine to only allow a negative view of Scientologists who suddenly start rejecting this or that Hubbard idea or rule!

The Sea Org thus lacks an honorable system to let people OUT of the system.

I do think though, that since my experience of being so drawn out, that they aren't drawing out other Sea Org member's departures anywhere near as long as my final 15 months departure period (I finally got out when I again asked to route out in Nov 2001, I finally got out in March 2003).

But you [Dennis], Arnie and Gerry, being Sea Org members, and being STILL actively speaking up, or I thought you were out there, was a huge inspiration to me.

And I gotta say when I first was totally OUT, in early April 2003, I was elated to see that Gerry Armstrong had NOT been "handled!"

It is SO GOOD to see ex Sea Org members speak up who are completely OUT of the Hubbard spell!

I hope to hell Mike Rinder steps up!

From "Comprehending Cults", Lorne L. Dawson, Oxford Univ Press, 1998, p. 31-32. "...most of the cults studied in any depth during the recent controversy about NRMs [New Religious Movements] are actually atypical. Scienotlogy, Krishna Consciousness, and the Unification Church, for example, are relatively long-lived and relatively large. Accordingly, many of their features are rather sect-like. They are more highly organized and are more ideologically and practically sophisticated in their relations with the larger world. And except in the case of the Unificiation Church, they have managed to survive the death of their charismatic leader. Originally, though, each of these groups displayed markedly the traits of a cult. Moreover, they continue to display many cult-like attitutdes and practices, such as the emphasis on esoteric teachings and the satisfaction of individual needs. Perhaps, then, yet another category should be added to the church-sect typology, that of 'established cult'."

Scientology is an established cult. Scientology's problems are so deep that the members and ex members cannot see the depth and understand in simple terms how wrong the whole system is.

Chuck Beatty

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology, de.soc.weltanschauung.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77"
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 19:41:05 -0800 (PST)
Local: Fri, Dec 21 2007 10:41 pm
Subject: Re: Bryan Ronald Wilson, Ph.D. Emeritus Fellow Oxford University and his study about Scientology: Part XXVIII. World-A
ffirmation in New Religions

On Dec 21, 10:09�pm, [email protected] wrote:

>Part XXVIII. World-Affirmation in New Religions
>World-affirming religions encounter intolerance even though
> they tend, by and large, to endorse enlightened secular values.
> Notwithstanding their generally positive orientation to the world,
> they may also have a mission to promote social reform, particularly in
> those departments of life, such as health-care, education, and
> religious liberty, which are the focus of their own distinctive
> values. The crucial point of the opposition which they encounter is
> that this kind of religion is presented as in itself a means of
> realizing benefits of the kind which are associated with everyday
> success, in health, competence, working efficiency, applied
> intelligence, and probably even in wealth -- in general, a better
> experience of life in the world.

Bryan Wilson failed to sufficiently listen to enough of L. Ron Hubbard's lectures, and by "enough" I contend that a scholar who has NOT listened to at least 1/3 of the Briefing Course lectures will have NO concept of the depth of Hubbard's belief in the effects of our past lives histories, including the effects of implanting, whole track implanting, which is covered EXTENSIVELY in the Briefing Course lectures.

Then Hubbard's OT levels 1, 2, 3 the original ones, and the Clearing Course, and R6EW, it is absolutely irresponsible for a scholar of Bryan Wilson's stature to simply accept and spit back the Scientology "public entrance level Catechism" answers that are the pap that is fed the interested innocents.

The "serious" work of Hubbard is the OT levels!

There is NO one who spends sufficient time studying Hubbard's writings of the Scientology Bridge to Total Freedom, NO Scientologist who's sweated throught he Briefing Course and who today has seen the Isaac Hayes "Why TRs" LRH tech film would FAIL to see the galactic level responsibility that Hubbard places on the shoulders of Scientologists.

A scholar like Wilson or others NOT familiar with the Briefing Course lectures, and familiar with Hubbard's OT level theology, can make the mistake of accepting the PR intro catechism of Scientology as a definition of Scientology.

When some scholars get the funding and interest to actually READ and LISTEN to Hubbard's Briefing Course materials, which is the WHOLE public domain gamut of Hubbard's Dianetics and Scientology spiritual technical lineup, THEN they will NOT repeat Wilson's categorization listed here.

If any scholars even bother!

A scholar has to do the Briefing Course to see see the validity of Roy Wallis' connection of Scientology to other late 40s, 50s "UFO cults" because Scientology absolutley fits into the category of UFO cult when the scholar does his damn homework!

There are ex Commodore's Messengers alive (several of them) who will independently confirm in the 1970s Hubbard pointed to stars in the sky, visible while Hubbard and his top aides/messengers were standing on the bridge of the Apollo (the ship Hubbard led the top followers around the Mediterranean and Carribean) and Hubbard stated one or more of the stars were actually alien UFO space vessels.

Another UFO cult confirming Hubbard writing is Hubbard's writing to Foster Tompkins, Foster was the head of the Scientology computerization project, and in the despatches to Foster circa 1982, Hubbard spoke of the unmanned drones that are permanently surveiling and keeping track of earth events.

The Scientology "upper levels" (OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7) deal with ridding a Scientologist of their share of body thetans (the surplus souls infesting each human on earth, tens of thousands of surplus souls attach themselves to each human on earth today and only Hubbard's OT levels 3, 4, 5, 6 an 7 procedures will release these surplus souls from each of our bodies), are spiritual procedures that humans MUST do to release the surplus souls (body thetans) infesting us. and the surplus souls came from a galactic genocide Hubbard said occured here on earth 75 million years ago. The souls are of people who lived on other planets in this sector of the galaxy.

There is NO getting around the Scientology theology.

Scholars who do their homework will find it out.

Scholars who buy the Scientology intro catechism WON'T get it right.

Wilson got some things right. But Wilson in this quote does NOT get Scientology right.

Scientology is supposedly about achieving ultimately a pure spirit state, called Operating Thetan, where the person achieves the causative ability to act entirely as a pure spirit again, without the need of a body, and thus literally attain immortal spiritual existence free from the encumbrances of a body.

Hubbard is serious about past lives on other planets, Hubbard was serious that earth is monitored as we speak by alien drone spacecraft.

Hubbard was serious that all humans are infested with tens of thousands of surplus souls (souls Hubbard in 1978 said are mostly in amnesia trances and effectively asleep, but still hitchhiking and infesting us and prone to our triggering these surplus souls into wakefulness at which point these souls create their own thoughts which we mistakenly think are our thoughts, in addition the mental pictures of the surplus souls who are awakened, the surplus souls' mental pictures are perceivable by us and we might mistaken the mental pictures as our own, and various problems arise from that confusion).

Hubbard's most serious achievement, is his top levels of the Bridge to Total Freedom, namely the levels OT 3, 4, 5 6 and 7.

Scientology is trying to fit in, and fine on that.

But there's a credibility problem, since there is no proof of these things that Scientologists believe in. No proof of space leader Xenu, no proof of body thetans (surplus souls), no proof of past lives (Hubbard was due to return this year and make himself known, since it has been 21 years since he died, and he has not yet showed up in a new body yet and come back in contact with Scientology management personnel).

Too bad Hubbard wasn't more a loveandmanymanymanymanyhugs person, and made love and humility and compassion and forgivenss a MAJOR part of Scientology.

Hubbard injected too much pulp science fiction UFO secretive, code of silence, and intelligence tactics, black PR against enemies, and the whole statistics oriented management system, that drowns out the moral goodness that other more traditional religions contribute to humankind.

Scientology has its work cut out trying to now keep itself from being perceived as the mess that it is, due to Hubbard's laid in cement policies and administrative setups, and the codes of silence, the black PR hardball stuff it is forced to retaliate against it's critics, etc.

Good luck.

That's why I said the ONLY strategy that will work is Way to Happiness, across the boards for about 25 years, and just let the whole setup collapse, and then see what people will do on their own as completely unhindered unfettered, unorganized Scientologists.

And give refunds outright to all who want their money back first!

Wilson bought the OSA wordsmiths' intro catechism for Scientology, that's the long and short of it.

Chuck Beatty
Ex-Sea Org (lifetime staffer, 1975-2003)

I live in Pittsburgh, anyone feel free to call me anytime: 412-260-1170

Clambake chat site, Posted: 23 Dec 2007 01:01 Post subject:

PauletteCooper wrote:

What Andy learned about Scientology and/or Cruise may not end up in the book. All publishers are very cautious these days and they may not want to risk publishing anything, ahem, interesting about his sexuality, "religion," etc.

So we may all end up reading a very sanitized version of the truth, and Andy can't defend himself saying "Well, what I found out was far more interesting than what was in the book" because then his book will appear boring and no one will want to read it.

My point is that what we'll ultimately learn about Cruise (and Scientology) is only what his publisher's lawyers let us learn about them.

By the way, the people who wrote here that Morton only interviewed those who hate Cruise are wrong. I agreed to an interview on the subject of Scientology.

Paulette Cooper


Dear Paulette,

I hope you don't tire of being complimented for your pivotal book, that flushed out the systemic worst in Scientology.

I loved your book.

I was a 27 years lifetime staffer in the Scientology movement, 1975-2003, and after getting out, I used Prof Dave Touretzky's great list of books and I started reading them.

I found a paperback copy or your book right here in Carnegie, PA, suburb of Pittsburgh. I work as a door to door sales rep for the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, and I consciously chose working for media as protection, since I chose also to speak up publicly about Scientology, Elliot Abelson tried to silence me with a gag threat letter, but the whole community on the Internet was a godsend to me, I contacted lawyers, and got the advice that Scientology always COULD but likely will NOT go after us new people coming out, speaking up, these days.

I want to give you a huge hug and all time THANKYOU!

And if apologies are accepted, even though I detest Scientology/Hubbard's authoritarian bullshit obviously, today, since I constantly speak out about it, I am so sorry for what "we" did to you.

I knew hundreds of Guardian's Office staff, and my second wife (now divorced, she's still working for Office of Special Affairs today), my second wife is the clerk in the "Invest" files on the upper floors of the management building where Office of Special Affairs is today. (I toy with getting her to defect, and spill the beans on the whole file system that OSA keeps, since if she turned and went public, we'd have an uptodate report on the state of OSA's files today).

Anyways, thankyou for all time for what you DID!

Your book's in my town's library!

You're the best!

Best, Chuck Beatty
ex-Sea Org (1975-2003)
412-260-1170 I live in Pittsburgh

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77"
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 18:54:56 -0800 (PST)
Local: Wed, Dec 26 2007 9:54 pm
Subject: Re: "He was a large-jawed, red-haired, big and expansive fellow who surprised me,"...

On Dec 25, 7:43�pm, [email protected] wrote:

> On Dec 25, 5:34 pm, phil scott wrote:

> > On Dec 25, 2:56 pm, "chuckbeatty77"
> > wrote:

> > > '....Asimov recalled. "His heroes tended to be frightened little men
> > > who rose to meet emergencies, and somehow I had expected Hubbard to be
> > > the same. "You don't look at all like your stories," I said. "Why?
> > > How are my stories?" he asked. "Oh they're great," I said
> > > enthusiastically and all present laughed while I blushed and tried to
> > > explain that if the stories were great and he was not like his
> > > stories, I didn't mean he was not great. '

> > > [from Russell Miller's "Bare-Faced Messiah", 1987 ed, Henry Holt &
> > > Co., p. 84, Isaac Asimov recalling meeting Hubbard for the first
> > > time.]

> are you a frightened little man?

Even the young innocent Asimov had been led into an embarrassing moment of praise for Hubbard's fascade of greatness.

Selling the world Hubbard's "serious" spiritual theology isn't succeding.

The Hubbard idea that eachmember of all humankind are each infested with thousands of "body thetans" per person, is just not something that is winning widespread support.

Ron's Science Fiction writing garnered more peer praise.

It's sad we don't have Hubbard's full administrative despatch traffic in the public domain, because I recall one despatch conversation where he lamented never gaining world appreciation for his work.

The Isaac Hayes movie, "Why TRs" I think is the most breathtaking farreaching set of ideas LRH realistically threw out at Scientology top level followers for them to consider their LONG range futures!

LRH was serious about his grand futuristic ideas and about how Scientology spiritual tech was gonna survive earth, as people who see the Isaac Hayes "Why TRs" movie will attest.

Unfortunately, there is no widespread praise spontaneously errupting worldwide for Hubbard's OT 3 revelatory discovery that 75 million years ago here on earth the space alien leader named Xenu committed a mega genocide at the site of about a dozen of earth's volcanos.

It's just not something people can accept, that the souls of these billions of people from other planets brought here 75 million years and murdered here on earth following Xenu's orders, that these murdered peoples' souls are today still floating ever around the earth attaching and re-attaching themselves, hitchhiking, onto all humankind's bodies in droves. And that only using Hubbard's OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 spiritual techniques, will each human being's burden of these surplus souls be uninfested!

Hubbard's "serious" spiritual theology is a tough sell.

And to top that off, seperately, where are the supernaturally improved Scientologists?

The Scientologists who have supposedly wiped themselves clean of their surplus souls (their supposed hitchhiking "body thetans" which infested them), those Scientologists who are "body thetan" free today should be demonstrating some supernatural abilities that by now should have stirred SOME sort of word of mouth support for Scientology!

The world should be being transformed by the supernaturally improved Scientologists.

They should be earth's real heros!

Where are the Hubbard's supernaturally improved people? Where's the remarkable goodness from these people who have completed the full Bridge to Total Freedom?

Chuck Beatty
ex Scientologist (1975-2003)

Clambake chat site
Posted: 31 Dec 2007 04:32
Post subject: Urgent Note to Mike Rinder

RolandRB wrote

>... snip...
>You just don't get it.
>.......... snip ...
>But you have missed the mark with this Rinder guy.
>The reason Scientology is a vicious and destructive cult is because of people like Rinder, ....snip....
>.....Take people like him and David Miscavige away and you have a harmless bunch of
>nuts like the Freezone. Scientology isn't a bad religion, any more than Christianity is a
>bad religion. It's the people running it that make it bad or good. ..... snip

[chuck response:]

I think you way underestimate Hubbard's policy and Flag Orders and all the on paper programs, issues, that the movement staff operate on.

Hubbard's writings are what will outlive all the different personalities.

Even with Miscavige gone, Rinder gone, Kurt Weiland gone, Heber gone, the movement members are Scientologists, and Scientologists follow L. Ron Hubbard's policies and issues.

New people will pick up and follow Hubbard's writings which are quite specifically all laid out in hat packs, for every position in the movement, and the followers ALL are required to study the hat packs for their positions, and the administrative setup of the movement ROLLS ON despite whichever personality dramatizes their own personal faults for a couple decades inside the movement!

If Mike Rinder is in Virginia like the anonymous poster that Little Bear Victor posted for said, then my guess is Rinder is hanging out with the cluster of ex top Scientologists, like Ronnie Miscavige Jnr and his wife.

If that is the case, then that implies another whole bunch of stuff to me.

If Rinder went to Ronnie's neck of the woods, to seek help transitioning back to normal life, that to me is a remarkable development.

I always held Ronnie as someone who really didn't like to put up with his younger brother David's antics and hissy fits that David has thrown all his life.

I extrapolate that Mike went to Ronnie, if he did, because Rinder knows Ronnie LIKEWISE doesn't approve of David's extreme punitive behavior.

Rinder was a RECIPIENT of David Miscavige's irrational rants and tantrums and punitive antics.

Ronnie I am sure left Scientology in part because of the same. I think almost ALL high ranking ex members left the top ranks in part due to NOT wishing to be victim to David Miscavige's irrational antics.

I think Rinder is in Virginia, if that rumor is true, because Ronnie Miscavige is a safe protective sympathetic mind versus David Miscavige, and who better as an ally against David Miscavige's irrational antics than David's brother who knows well David's irrational streak!

I think there is MUCH more to these top ranked people, and I hope some truly skilled literate writers gain a foothold and relationship and interview Mike Rinder and Ronnie Miscavige, is what I hope some reporter or scholar or some smart literate understanding person.

I think it human to seek out allies in one's "battles" in life.

Realize that exiting senior members, have almost uniformly had run ins with David Miscavige.

I heard last July that Rinder LEFT because he was resigned to being run into the ground again by David Miscavige for failing to stop the BBC show.

So, human nature is seek allies outside the movement.

Who better than David Miscavige's brother, Ronnie Miscavige, who twice left the Sea Org, and I believe at least one of the times, the last time, was due to an long duration undercurrent of discontent and protest to his brother David Miscavige.

That's my educated guess.

I don't put Rinder in Miscavige's category.

I also don't think, in the end of the day, if Hubbard hadn't set up the totalitarian system that the Sea Org is, and if Hubbard didn't set such a poor example of autocratic dictatorial behavior himself, that Miscavige wouldn’t' have had the opportunity to behave as unchecked badly as Miscavige has been behaving the last 25 years.

I think also, the early crews of "tough guy" top execs, Bill Franks, Alex Sibersky, Kerry Gleason, those men ought to be interviewed, and their contemporaries about where all the Sea Org tough guy came from, and Hubbard drove that attitude into the Sea Org leadership.

I think human males have the ability to get violent, it's just human nature.

Given the dogma, given the context, given the rules the requirements for certain behavior of toughness on people's parts, there is certainly Scientology executive policy and Sea Org policy giving Sea Org executives the rights to scream and demand and apply heavy ethics gradients to demand compliance.

With the hyper inflated delusional goals expectations and fantasy "OT" level abilities that no one ever attains (only in their heads), it is a losing setup.

It's more the rules, it's more Hubbard's own personal flaws, Hubbard's frustrations that he set the bad examples, the other leadership follows Hubbard's lead.

I think this is just the start of the discussion on why Sea Org has irrational minded executives.

Best, Chuck Beatty
ex-Sea Org (1975-2003)
412-260-1170 I live in Pittsburgh

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