Chuck Beatty
Internet Posts, Sept 2009






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Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology From: "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com"
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 09:59:39 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sun, Sep 6 2009 12:59 pm
Subject: Theory of the universe stuff....What attracted me to Hubbard/Scientology.....good old body thetans and plain old
thetans are the root of it all, supposedly....

Just a passing thought about Scientology's/Hubbard's attraction to me, was Hubbard's explanation of where the universe came from and where it's going.

To me, Hubbard says we were that spiritual state pre the Factors, and each one of us on our own, started our own universe (LRH's Time Track Bulletins of 1963, plus LRH's Factors) and from there our universes collided, and today we are the existing colliding universes. Additionally, we have "body thetans" which are bodiless thetans attached to us, due to the long range space opera drama of subjugated "souls", implanted amnesia tranced thetans, but that just means souls and physical universe (MEST) stuff collided in that particular pattern, and additionally per one conversation I had with a Class 12 trained person, LRH in at least one Class 12 tape briefing lecture said the whole universe (meaning all the MEST of the universe) is made up of thetans, so Hubbard, I think from what I've gathered, says the whole universe is thetans doing all that there is to the whole universe.

Well, that's what I got into Scientology for, which was just to obtain whatever Hubbard's ideas were about all time and space. That's all I wanted from Scientology, and I wish someone could have just pointed me to the summary ideas of the universe, the history of the universe, and what is ahead of us for eternity, in two paragraphs, just like I summarized above.

Back to life today, what I find interesting is STILL the thinking being done by physicists and cosmologists who think about the LONG past and LONG future.

To my point now, this link to this "blogginheads.tv" conversation between Sean Carroll and Mark Trodden, this is the type of discussion of the big picture long term ideas of the universe I find fulfilling today, to think about.

Sean Carroll is one physicist/cosmologist who I think simplifies things sufficiently to make big picture stuff of the universe understandable, and to me, he's good at discussing the physical angle of our physical situation in this universe per all the science that consumes the serious scientific minds today.

http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/21709

I recommend people periodically check out "blogginheads.tv" for the latest from people like Mark Trodden and Sean Carroll if people want to know what the physicists and cosmologists think about the latest in our universe.

And I recommend in the years to come, that ex Scientology people do this type of "blogginheads.tv" discussions, with each other, and put their conversations in the public domain, for history purposes. I would love to see Bruce Hines and Rob Williamson do a "blogginheads.tv" like discussion on all of NOTs for instance. All the ins and outs of body thetans, the case problems that body thetans supposedly cause, or not, I would love to hear of people's discussions of their experiences dealing with the supposed body thetans.

Bruce was a long term Flag NOTs auditor, then Senior C/S Int staffer with access to a lot of Hubbard's private briefings, like the Melanie Murray Hubbard briefing tape that became the core of the NOTs issues, per Bruce.

And Rob was the original Flag Intern Sup for the NOTs auditors, thus oversaw tons and tons of NOTs initial auditing at Flag. Both I believe are free to discuss the ins and outs of body thetans, etc, today, without any kind of self muzzling which freezone or official Scientologists are bound by.

I would love also for a free ex Class 12 trained Scientologist to do a paper or detailed discussion of the supposed "the universe is all thetans" idea I mentioned above.

To me, that is the crux of any spiritual validity of Scientology. If Hubbard says the whole universe is really just the creation(s) of thetans, and that thetans ARE MEST, then that's the whole ball of wax, and to me, I don't have to know another darned thing about Scientology.

I never bought auditing as therapy. Auditing is so obviously therapy, and non peer reviewed therapy, that to me that whole aspect of Scientology is NOT worth pursuing and I never liked nor was drawn to the therapy lure of Scientology.

I only wish some Class 12s who've heard the LRH Class 12 lectures will discuss any of Hubbard's ideas about thetans being the creators of MEST, and that MEST today, per that train of thought, MEST is simply very very dumb amnesia sub dumb thetans.

Just a thought.

Chuck Beatty
Pittsburgh
ex Sea Org long term dupe (1975-2003)
I support exposing all that is wrong and harmful and ludicrous about Hubbard/Scientology

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com"
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 15:33:16 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sat, Sep 12 2009 5:33 pm
Subject: L. Ron Hubbard originated Scientology religion "black eye" tech. Int Base staff comply. It ain't DM, It's Hubbard's policy!

[Marty wrote on his blog]: "...In response, the mob rushed at the three targeted gentlemen. Fists flew and feet kicked into the three. They continued to pound until Miscavige’s deputy on site determined they had created sufficient evidence. That evidence? Fat lips, bloody noses, black eyes (and the deputy would not let the mob relent until each had two black eyes) and contusions over the faces and bodies of Yager, Leserve, and Mithoff. ""

L. Ron Hubbard said:

22 July 1982 KNOWLEDGE REPORTS by L. Ron Hubbard, founder of Scientology

"...Standing with a bland look while Joe sticks pins in someone or something is not good manners, it's idiocy...."

"...The single most notable difference between an upstat, easy-to-live- with-and-work-with group and a downstat, hard-to-live-and-work-with group is that the individual group members themselves enforce the action and mores of the group...."

"...In an upstat group, at the first pinprick Joe would probably have a black eye.

"In a downstat group Joe could go on and on with his pins, each group member watching and shrugging."

L. Ron Hubbard, 22 July 1982, KNOWLEDGE REPORTS, green volume 0

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com"
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 16:03:28 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sat, Sep 12 2009 6:03 pm
Subject: Re: L. Ron Hubbard originated Scientology religion "black eye" tech. Int Base staff comply. It ain't DM, It's Hubbard's policy!

On Sep 12, 6:43 pm, Roadrunner wrote:

> On 13 Sep, 00:33, "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com"
> wrote:

> > [Marty wrote on his blog]: "...In response, the mob rushed at the
> > three targeted gentlemen. Fists flew and feet kicked into the three.
> > They continued to pound until Miscavige’s deputy on site determined
> > they had created sufficient evidence. That evidence? Fat lips, bloody
> > noses, black eyes (and the deputy would not let the mob relent until
> > each had two black eyes) and contusions over the faces and bodies of
> > Yager, Leserve, and Mithoff. ""

> > L. Ron Hubbard said: ...snip....

> Please provide positive prove that he actually wrote that...

> RR [roadrunner] ...snip....

Page 268 para 7, of the latest edition of "Introduction to Scientology Ethics" also, 2007 edition.

""In an upstat group, at the first pinprick, Joe would probably have a black eye!"

L. Ron Hubbard, founder of the church of Scientology.

Black eye "tech" is Hubbard "tech" as applied by the most fanatical literal minded top ranked members, and it is thus a group enforced mind set, just like Hubbard ordered, in this context.

At some point, a real expert on Hubbard's writings, will put Hubbard's extremist statements and goading inspiration to his top staff in context.

DM is simply pushing the top ranked staff to DO as Hubbard ordered in 1982.

Yager was there, and so was Leserve and so was Mitoff, when Hubbard wrote the 1982 "Knowledge Reports" policy.

What would be interesting, is were the actual compilations staff of Senior C/S Int Office who were charged with getting that policy neated up and issued, based on the actual Hubbard despatch or however Hubbard ordered that policy into being, the details of how Knowledge Reports Policy was complied, would be relevant in history.

I wonder if this policy came as a result of several of Hubbard's despatches of that time period, or from one single despatch, etc.

The compilation history of Knowledge Reports is relevant.

If we had access to the INCOMM computer system which has ALL of Hubbard's writings and private despatch traffic, we could do what is called an "ALLSIR search" and search the whole written database of Hubbard's writings, see the actual text of any private despatches that were the basis for this final issue policy.

In any case, the 2007 book, "Introduction to Scientology Ethics" by L. Ron Hubbard, page 268, that's also got all the paragraphs I quoted.

Any ex Int Base staff who lived at Int in 1982 when that despatch from Hubbard "came down" to be compiled into policy, those details I love to get into the public domain to put Hubbard's ideas in context.

My guess is this was around the time when DM and other top leaders were spitting, punching, pushing and threatening subordinates extensively.

chuck Beatty







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