Chuck Beatty
Internet Posts, September 2007



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Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com"
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 19:38:33 -0700
Local: Sun, Sep 2 2007 10:38 pm
Subject: Re: Mike Rinder is out! It is not a rumor anymore

On Sep 2, 5:21?pm, idaj...@aol.com wrote:

> Rinder is welcome here for dinner. When I saw him a few years ago at
> the Henson trial he appeard guant and very thin. I think he could use a few good
> meals.
> Perhaps a kind word or two would help.

> Ida C.

> "You must have crossed the river to tell the crocodile he has bad
> breath"
> Chinese proverb


-

Dear Ida,

You can always phone OSA Int reception and leave Mike an invitation to come to dinner. 323-960-3500 is OSA Int reception.

Forgiveness is something Hubbard didn't make church policy, so the outside world has a major advantage on Scientology.

Honest compassion and forgiveness shreds Hubbard's false fantasies about the "SP" enemies of Scientology.

Mike's gotta toss away over 30 years of accumulated experiences that led him to do what he did!

Understanding and compassion and forgiveness applied to ex members like Mike would cut right through a lot of his false indoctrination.

Chuck Beatty



Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com"
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 21:04:49 -0700
Local: Mon, Sep 3 2007 12:04 am
Subject: Re: Beatty on LRH's Views of Psychiatry

> Do you think "SIR" is hackable?
> The Wrong Reverend K.G. Brady
> gomorr...@hotmail.comwww.myspace.com/clear_objectives
> (415) 341-0022

One of the INCOMM staff members copied all of the SIR libraries, and TONS of sensitive computer files of ALL of the top leaders and OSA Int files, and put all this information on tapes, SEVERAL TIMES, and took the tapes OUTSIDE of the INCOMM facilities.

I don't know the details, just the rough details, as relayed to me.

There is the possibility that someone, somewhere, my guess is the US Justice Department, is sitting on possibly the full LRH library which existed at the time these INCOMM computer tapes were somehow slipped OUT of INCOMM.

But today, is this [getting the SIR libraries out again] doable?

Yes. Because it's been done already. [If they still do backups of the SIR libraries, which I assume they do.]

Hackable, yes, it's of course possible, if you're the NSA, absolutely, they can hack INCOMM right now if they wished to. Normal hackers, they'd need someone on the inside to hook them into the standalone INCOMM network. I've had anonymous people phone me who were former Class 5 org staff tell me how they stumbled into the INCOMM computers from their Class 5 org computer linkup, but I don't have any familiarity with the current INCOMM programs that allow this limited access that the Class 5 org staff have.

I am pretty sure Paul Wilmshurst, the INCOMM computer programming top guru, made the current setup compartmented and all standalone, and linked together.

Standalone is the only unhackable setup, and that's what I would have done, and is the only way that works.

But INCOMM sends everything via microwave, or did, between Gilman Hot Springs and LA.

Pat Buglewicz was listed in the "Hall" (Gilman Hot Springs detention status categrogy), and Pat is the hardware guru of all time for INCOMM, he's got 25 years experience doing hardware for INCOMM, and he'd know how to hack INCOMM, if Pat leaves eventually.

I listed the people who I know who could do it, who are inside. John Dunn, James Perry, Roger Kernbach, they could possibly allow an outsider to hack into the LRH SIR libraries. Will they?

I don't think anyone's do hacking into the SIR libraries.

But only tapes of the SIR libraries were leaked out of INCOMM into the "wog" world and to unsafe outside destinations.

Physical transfer of the SIR libraries and other extremely sensitive info was supposedly leaked out, more than once.

So based on this happening once, it seems likely that some future INCOMM person will in fact repeat what's been done already.

There's a recurring pattern to defections, people speaking up, leaks, blows, so even though it is unthinkable, since the worst has already happened, it can happen again.

The only thing that hasn't happened is the SIR libraries and the sensitive info didn't make it all the way into the public domain.

My wish list of ultimate getting all of LRH's writings, and ALL relevant material he has authored, into the public domain, would be to leak out full copies of his preclear folders, as they contain all the nooks and crannies of his own personal research, and that would put into perspective LOTS of his public domain writings!!

If someone were interested, and had the time, studying his preclear folders in tandem with his public domain tech and policy and other writings, would show from which sessions, which past life experiences and incidents he drew this or that idea that he wrote into tech and policy and lectured about, etc.

For an ultimate "Briefing Course" if I were an absolute Hubbard fanatic, I'd wish to read his preclear folders for their whole track incidents and so forth, and compare to his final polished writings he settled on after his sessions into the long distant past. (I don't believe in the past lives stuff, but to see that LRH was genuine, his preclear folders are ample proof of how deep he believed himself and his own whole track experiences, and his preclear folders thus would prove his was NOT just conning everyone, but he was seriously deluded into his own whole track, etc, etc, etc).

Just more thoughts to waste people's time, sorry.

I think most outsiders at present, feel LRH and Scientology are understood sufficiently, and that nothing is really missed about LRH and Scientology.

I agree, mainly. I feel actually, if ANYONE just reads the list of books already written on Scientology, at Prof Dave Touretzky's site: http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/ in these books are written well summarized and absolutely better spoken conclusions about LRH and Scientology, which I HIGHLY recommend people read these books.

There's nothing like the books on Scientology, for making the big points about LRH and Scientology!

http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/

I agree with prior bigger smarter critics that further inspecting for raisins in the turds is unneeded.

But the librarian in me obsesses with the historical ideal scene of having all of LRH's writings, from SIR (the full computer word for word, everything he wrote or lectured), from his pc folders, etc, in the public domain, since that's sort of a square zero from which one can then answer all detailed questions for all time.

I'm re-reading Jon Atack's excellent book right now. His book's title summarizes Scientology's lure and reward for however much time one spends on the Scientology Bridge to Total Freedom: "A Piece of Blue Sky."

The major conclusions from the books at Prof Touretzky's site are ample to tell the basic reasons Scientology isn't going anywhere soon, and all a new book might tell, is tell the new trends, and maybe new books will look into the organizational setups which I think are what at heart sort of keep the whole operation going on auto pilot despite the dwindling current cultural attraction to Scientology due to the offensive embedded unchangeable membership policies (disconnection, SP declaring, outrageously high donations for spiritual services, front group activities lying through their teeth, etc, etc.).

There are some other complex new religious movement phenomena going on in favor of Scientology. The responsibility to "keep the show on the road" is being passed on from generation to generation, particularly the manning of the Sea Org is from kids whose parents are Scientologists, that's a big normal thing in any religion, to be staffed by people whose parents were in that religion. So Scientology's got some foothold just like any other group. And with Scientology's auto-pilot Hubbard internal policy doctrines sitting on shelves waiting to give instruction to guide whichever persons who happen to show up to do staff member duty, the default staff who get suckered into holding staff positions read what LRH says for them to do and thus the operation can bumble along "Doing what Ron says!"

Chuck



Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com"
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 12:17:33 -0700
Local: Tues, Sep 4 2007 3:17 pm
Subject: Re: Mike Rinder is out! It is not a rumor anymore

> Over time, we have seen the physical decline of quite a few upper level
> Scientologists. Helena Kobrin, cult lawyer, has been looking like
> frazzled hell for quite some time, as has Ken Hoden.

> I think this has much more to do with little sleep, crappy diet, and
> severe stress than anything else. People CAN get worked to death. It
> wouldn't surprise me if Rinder merely suffers from Hoden/Kobrin Syndrome.

> --
barb
> Chaplain, ARSCCwdne

> buy my book!http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=1198812
> read my blog!http://xenubarb.blogspot.com/- Hide quoted text -

Yes, I sympathize with them. Think of the level of agreements (deception, delusion) one had accepted to get to the level of supporting Scientology legally and in the PR world at these top levels for Scientology!

It is really truly a far far place Hubbard has put his most faithful into defending.

Hubbard had rules for extra processing to keep the minds of the frontpeople relieved. But the irreducible minimum auditing/processing these people receive is processing directed to locate their transgressions, to find fault with their performances in the public media battles they undertake for Scientology.

It is truly an intense predicament these top leaders who have to speak publicly in support of Scientology are placed in.

Hubbard's Scientology system directs blame at the participants, NEVER back to Hubbard's doctrines which are genuinely in need of criticism and abandonment.

All these high level Scientologists and people defending the movement are at a high level of being stuck between a rock and a hard place.

David Miscavige's wrath at those people is worse than the media criticism those top frontpeople face.

Moxon and the other lawyers look bad, because of the wrath they invite if they fail, and the wrath they fear most is Miscavige's!

Scientology/Hubbard's doctrines have too many faults, so many of the doctrines are just not defensible, and it is a losing proposition, and it is a repeating no-win situation since the movement's more irreligious faults are perpetuated by the system that followers are obliged by Hubbard's rules to faithfully execute.

And then Hubbard's penalty system trashes the leaders for failing.

The system is built to fail, and the delay time in failing gives time for the system to misdirect blame to the participants.

The faults in the doctrines are thus NEVER handled.

Scientology is a slow motion problem creating operation, that grinds up its own leaders who vie to chew each other to pieces, placating the wrath of the loudest screaming top manager, currently David Miscavige, who's perfected this top dog king of the mountain role within this disgraceful problem fraught system.

Hubbard's arrogance was NOT to ever take the blame. The participants are alone at fault for misapplication of Hubbard's doctrines.

All who work for decades and are forced to face the valid criticism (criticism which has NEVER been handled) against Scientology. They eventually have their epiphanies and see the losing proposition and predicament that being the leader and defender of this movement turns out to be.

Hubbard set the operation up so that the frontpeople take the brunt of the media criticism, and the frontpeople just fall to pieces after years of doing this.

It's a tough job defending an indefensible operation.

That's simply why Mike Rinder suddenly quit. He was headed for more abuse from David Miscavige for failing to deal with the BBC show.

Chuck



Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com"
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 11:44:43 -0700
Local: Thurs, Sep 6 2007 2:44 pm
Subject: Re: Rinder HIV - DISCREDITED

On Sep 6, 10:53?am, hwschmid...@yahoo.de wrote:

> In contrast, Chuck, you seem to be a civil and intelligent fellow.
> Thank you for you considered remarks.

> Perhaps you can teach some of the other postees some intelligence and
> manners!

> All the best.

If Scientology had attracted more literate and willing guinea pigs as staff, who foolishly wasted decades of their lives, who were as "suppressively reasonable" as myself, there likely would be more people willing to even chat "seriously", but realize ARS is what it is, I thank all the people who've written some of the best incisive overall criticism and who keep alive the dialogue.

There are about 20-30 really smart contributors to ARS, who I've learned immensely from.

ARS daily is a free for all mainly of people who haven't spent the years as advanced dupes like myself, so that's just a cultural and psychological phenomenon.

If you have serious questions, email me, I'll introduce you to people who will gladly dialogue.

Most people who were in the cult of Scientology aren't into chatting here.

I try to connect serious researchers to ex members who'll tell their firsthand experiences, mainly, since I just think that someday some future generation researcher will thank any of us ex members at this juncture in the Scientology movement's history for even bothering to try to get the ex longer term members' views and experiences into the historical stockpile from which ongoing and future historical assessments of the whole damn mess can be drawn.

Mystical hopes for high spiritual states, that was the lure of Scientology for me. Putting up with all the bullshit rules and staff to staff bashing rules, and rules that put EVERY Scientologist in these anti-family, anti-old friends, predicaments, the rules, in the end, Hubbard's writings, are what I think need dissecting and continual challenging and utlimately the dreadful Hubbard rules and ideas need abandonment.

I think outside thought, from people NOT at all trained in Scientology/ Hubbard, I came to ARS for really OUTSIDE world criticism of Scientology.

Again, there are about maybe 50 continuing ARS posters who to me really understand the movement, and who've said amazing important things here on ARS, amidst the day to day stuff that goes on.

At any moment in time there are 10-20 of these most advanced observers commenting views that I appreciate and learn from.

The EXSCN chat site has some truly more significant and varied ex members' experiences discussions. Victor Little Bear's postings have some of the most inciteful recent looks into the top ranks of the movement, you can search for "Little Bear Victor" and look at all his posts here:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/

go there, then click on Search, and type in "Victor" to find all the latest on Int management.

Also on Clambake, BTs2Free and blownforgood, both have excellent raw info.

http://tinyurl.com/24uq3d BTsFree

http://tinyurl.com/34e2up blownforgood

I'll introduce you to anyone who's willing to give raw info. Are you media or a writer?

Chuck Beatty
ex Scientologist/ex Sea Org (1975-2003)
Pittsburgh, USA
412-260-1170
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckbeatty77/
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05205/542899.stm
http:[email protected]/
Ex-Sea Org (lifetime staffer, 1975-2003)
Flag Dec 1975-Jun 1983 (TTC, Sup, Word Clearer, D of T, etc.)
Int Base 1983-1984 (Routing Forms Pjt)
Snr HCO Int in the FB in LA 1984-87 Re-Training (Int and LA) 87-88
Int Training Org, LA 88 (Sec Checker Sup)
LRH Tech Research and Comps, CMO Int, (Sept 88-Feb 89)
Int RPF (Feb-Mar 89)
PAC RPF (Mar-May 89)
Int Training Org (May-Sept 89) (Admin Sup)
INCOMM Sep 89-Sept 90 (Routing Forms Pjt)
INCOMM Sept 90-May92 (Computer Room LA & Int)
ASI May 92-Dec95 (Computer Room, In-Training Esto)
Decks Int (Dec 95-Jun 96)
Int RPF (Jun 96-Nov 2000)
PAC RPF (Nov 2000-Mar2003)
Routed out March 29, 2003.
Join XSO and network to old Sea Org friends:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/XSO/
Chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
I live in Pittsburgh, anyone feel free to call
me anytime: 412-260-1170



Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology, de.soc.weltanschauung.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com"
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 12:40:54 -0700
Local: Fri, Sep 7 2007 3:40 pm
Subject: Re: Scientology v. Armstrong, Marin SC CV021632, September 6, 2007, tentative ruling on Scientology's motion for sentences and warrant

> Gerry may want to appear the martyr, but HE ACCEPTED the money the
> church gave him and the terms that went with it. He spent the money and
> now he wants to say that what HE AGREED TO is unconscionable. This is
> the kind of dispute the courts are there to handle.

He accepted the money but he didn't really have a choice, he would have hurt the settlement of the dozens of others who were all in agreement to settle together, that was the Scientology bargain offered.

And also later, isn't it true that Scientology chose to continue maligning Gerry first, after the agreement, and isn't it true that only because of the way the agreement was written, were they free to malign him, but he was not free to speak up against them?

And isn't it absolutely true, that the bigger issue is Scientology and Hubbard.

Hubbard is the one who says on the one hand obliterate the church's "enemies" and then on the other hand Hubbard writes "non-religious" advice such as The Way to Happiness where he states in Precept 20, my favoriite:

"....You would possibly want people to be considerate of your rights and feelings.

"When you were down, you might like others to be compassionate.

"Instead of blasting you, you would proably want others to exhibit self-control. Right?

"Rather than concentrating on censure and punishment, you would prefer people were forgiving. Correct?

--- L. Ron Hubbard, excerpted from Precept 20, The Way to Happiness.

Hubbard in his Mission Earth 10 volume science fiction work of his final years, Hubbard mocks the public relations tactics of creating bad publicity as a means of getting publicity.

Yet, choosing to follow the "obliterate" the church's enemies policies of Hubbard's, especially in Gerry's case, just plays right against LRH's words to NOT create bad publicity and it is against his Way to Happiness.

Scientology's irreligious image is due to the intelligence/covert operations/legal tactics/obliterate the enemies policies of Hubbard.

My piece of free advice, to them, is use their more religious type behavior.

It'll get them a lot better PR.

Scientology needs to change and abandon LRH's worst ideas that disgrace Scientology.

If Gerry goes to jail or is punished, it's just going to start a whole new round of anti-Scientology and anti-LRH sentiments. It is exactly the type of bad publicity that LRH in Mission Earth said is one of the faults of earth!

Scientology is a messy operation, with rules that are predicaments.

The Way to Happiness, forgiveness, humility, all the Precept 20 aspects, are Scientology's only way out of the recurring messes Hubbard's worst ideas cause.

If they dropped the case, and apologized to Gerry, that would be monumental, and be the right thing to do.

Scientologists stuck in the mindset that Gerry and other "enemies" are Scientology's problems, have lost sight of the really important principles in life, contained in Precept 20.

Wake up Scientologists! Do Precept 20! Doing the OSA playbook of LRH rules/policies is just gonna get Scientology more Mission Earth style bad publicity.

Chuck Beatty
Ex-Sea Org (lifetime staffer, 1975-2003)
Flag Dec 1975-Jun 1983 (TTC, Sup, Word Clearer, D of T, etc.)
Int Base 1983-1984 (Routing Forms Pjt)
Snr HCO Int in the FB in LA 1984-87 Re-Training (Int and LA) 87-88
Int Training Org, LA 88 (Sec Checker Sup)
LRH Tech Research and Comps, CMO Int, (Sept 88-Feb 89)
Int RPF (Feb-Mar 89)
PAC RPF (Mar-May 89)
Int Training Org (May-Sept 89) (Admin Sup)
INCOMM Sep 89-Sept 90 (Routing Forms Pjt)
INCOMM Sept 90-May92 (Computer Room LA & Int)
ASI May 92-Dec95 (Computer Room, In-Training Esto)
Decks Int (Dec 95-Jun 96)
Int RPF (Jun 96-Nov 2000)
PAC RPF (Nov 2000-Mar2003)
Routed out March 29, 2003.
Join XSO and network to old Sea Org friends:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/XSO/
Chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckbeatty77/
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05205/542899.stm
http:[email protected]/
I live in Pittsburgh, anyone feel free to call
me anytime: 412-260-1170



Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com"
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 21:45:09 -0700
Local: Thurs, Sep 13 2007 12:45 am
Subject: Re: Scientology fails to deliver LRH's "Grand Tour". One of my most major disappointments in Scientology...

> That's one of the things that interested me and fascinated me about
> Scientology. And like a fool, I thought they had achieved it. But for
> some odd reason, though these things appeared to work on other people,
> then never worked on me. That made me wonder if I were an SP
> -

....And because you thought yourself SP, that bit of humble self- reflection is honorable and honestly normal, and for whatever LRH's reasons, good and bad, LRH conveniently for him and the Scientology movement's sake LRH wrote that anyone who were self-reflective enough to seriously contemplate themselves suppressive, that meant that such humble people were NOT suppressive, and that validated you and your views, and kept you under LRH's spell a little longer, hoping he would deliver the goods down the road.

I wish he did deliver, and people will come along in the future years, and every day as we speak, hoping that the high spiritual states of being are within human grasp. It's a long thousands of years long quest and tradition to offer and promise, and ALSO to fail to deliver, these high spiritual states of being and abilities.

The brain events, the coincidences, the wondrous electromagnetic events that occur but which have as yet to be fully explained scientifically, do happen, and are lumped into the convenient groupings like spiritual practices, mystical practices, religious practices, new religious movement practices, and people are drawn to involve themselves in the "paths" to obtaining causatively these abilities.

I will gladly accept WHOEVER deliver the goods. I don't think Scientology does, after my 27 years staff experience. We (the Scientologists) didn't honestly deliver the real OT goods, sadly. It would have been nice, but there aren't stable OTs demonstrating the array of OT powers I honestly thought were there to be attained.

In all my 27 years, and 4 years out, I have learned ONE major thing:

There are ideas and there are people.

People are more important.

Ideas can and should be changed, so as NOT to trample on people.

Scientology (the "ology" and the "scien(t)" are such high minded building blocks), but the 1951-1952 L. Ron Hubbard created subject "Scientology" is such a blatant misrepresentation and most sane people realize that everything that follows is likely similar to the bold label for this subject!

I was driven, driven for the high high spiritual states I hoped one of these new aged religions or mystical groups could deliver.

I was sold before any Scientology staff could blunt my desires for these high spiritual states, I'd already heard rumored existed.

When I got in, Scientology got me because of other mystical practices were selling the same "jewels" of spiritual wisdom and abilities.

I granted LRH his bold charlatenesque concoction moniker of his movement, "Scientology."

Most normal people are rightly turned OFF from Scientology, just from the name.

Most normal people have remembered that NO group on earth in our history have been turning out supernaturally improved human beings, in all the thousands of years of recorded human history.

Scientology sells the supernatural abilities! The L's contain conscious advertising for the supernatural ability of guaranteed "exteriorization" or "out of the body" experience, guaranteed, and that is supposed to uplift a person up to the point of actual evidence that they are immortal spirits, etc.

Fine, I think exteriorization (out of the body) is a brain illusion, and can be reproduced by brain stimulation, but I can understand and sympathize with those that think of exteriorization (the Scientology terminology for "out of the body" experience or "remote viewing") as a real phenomenon. This is scientifically testable, and thus I hope it is conclusively demonstrated to everyone's satisfaction hopefully in the future if it isn't already satisfactorily proven already.

Flying through he universe, being directed to do so, per the "Grand Tour" process in the L. Ron Hubbard book entitled, "The Creation of Human Ability", that is fine with me, if it is proven real. So far, it is subjective, and personal, and isn't widely accepted as real.

I had wished and hoped it all was real, it isn't proven as real though, I find today, after 30 years of thinking about it, after my first day in the Scientology movement, in May of 1975.

It's been a long strange trip, back to normal reality.

Chuck Beatty
Ex-Sea Org (lifetime staffer, 1975-2003)
Flag Dec 1975-Jun 1983 (TTC, Sup, Word Clearer, D of T, etc.)
Int Base 1983-1984 (Routing Forms Pjt)
Snr HCO Int in the FB in LA 1984-87 Re-Training (Int and LA) 87-88
Int Training Org, LA 88 (Sec Checker Sup)
LRH Tech Research and Comps, CMO Int, (Sept 88-Feb 89)
Int RPF (Feb-Mar 89)
PAC RPF (Mar-May 89)
Int Training Org (May-Sept 89) (Admin Sup)
INCOMM Sep 89-Sept 90 (Routing Forms Pjt)
INCOMM Sept 90-May92 (Computer Room LA & Int)
ASI May 92-Dec95 (Computer Room, In-Training Esto)
Decks Int (Dec 95-Jun 96)
Int RPF (Jun 96-Nov 2000)
PAC RPF (Nov 2000-Mar2003)
Routed out March 29, 2003.
Join XSO and network to old Sea Org friends:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/XSO/
Chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckbeatty77/
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05205/542899.stm
http:[email protected]/
I live in Pittsburgh, anyone feel free to call
me anytime: 412-260-1170



Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com"
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:02:49 -0700
Local: Mon, Sep 17 2007 12:02 pm
Subject: Sugggestion for ARS observers to stay on top of the latest. Including the new UPDATED aeriel photo of Gilman Hot Springs, Scientology movement's top echelon facility

http://www.freewebs.com/chuckbeatty77/Gold2007Labeled.jpg
Gilman Hot Springs aka Gold aka Gold Base aka the "base", the
adminstrative top echelon of the official Scientology movement, where
the Religious Technology Center, the Commodore's Messenger
Organization International, the International Executive Strata, and
Golden Era Productions are all located.

Linked are the latest postings by the 3 most prolific and helpful ex Int staffers who are getting unprecedented recent information about the top ranks of the Scientology movement into the public domain.

http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?p=256784&highlight=#256784
blownforgood"s comments contain probably the best picture of the extreme predicaments and disgraces that have gone on in recent years (last 10 years) at the top of the Scientology movement.

http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/search.php?search_author=BTs2Free
BT2Free's comments, who has written some long excellent historical descriptions of the predicaments for staff at Gilman Hot Springs over the last decade or more.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/memberlist.php?ltr=L&pp=0&sort=username&or...
Go here and then select the profile for Little Bear Victor's postings on the Ex Scientologist chat site. Little Bear Victor has the latest material on life at the Int Base, including the extensive list of staff and the predicaments of the current ex top leaders of the Scientology movement who are reportedly under voluntary detention category confinement (as voluntary as life is in a high intensity group like the religious order of the Scientology movement) in the nicknamed category called the "Hall". The Hall category of fallen top staffers of the Sea Org facility at Gilman Hot Springs, takes place in one of the new "berthing buildings" and in blownforgood postings is the info on which exact building amongst the berthing buildings that these confined ex senior Scientologists are under voluntary detention, per the longstanding f L. Ron Hubbard system of penalty rules (with creative twists thrown into their daily routines by Scientology movement leader David Miscavige).

Chuck Beatty
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05205/542899.stm
http:[email protected]/
I live in Pittsburgh, anyone feel free to call
me anytime: 412-260-1170

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com"
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 17:27:54 -0700
Local: Sun, Sep 30 2007 8:27 pm
Subject: Re: David Miscavige's disgraceful leadership demonstrated. blownforgood details the "Musical Chairs" incident, David Miscavige shows why he is the most hated leader bar none, in Scientology's history.

...snip,
> Scientology trains people to be bad asses. If sleeping under their
> desk or getting slapped is what it takes to toughen these execs up and
> turn them into people with high confront, then that is essentially
> what they signed on for.
> I sleep on the floor ten feet from my desk every night. I didn't
> realize this even was "abuse" until I read about it here on ars.
> Modern urbanized people have become complacent and spoiled. I blame
> the liberals and their bad parenting methods. Spoiled children with no
> motivation become adults who cannot confront even minor
> inconveniences.
> LRH was an Eagle Scout and an officer in the Navy during World War II.
> The primitive conditions he had to endure in those days would
> overwhelm most of these young people today.
> The liberals want people to be pussies. It's part of the long-term
> communist agenda. Meanwhile, Scientology trains people to be
> resilient.
> -- Jonathon-

I loved the "harsh" conditions also, in the Sea Org. I mean the conditions are nothing compared to life around the world lived by billions of other less privileged non westerner people on earth today. All Sea Org members have it easy compared to the less privileged people of earth.

Only in isolated comparison to western middle class life, and the Sea Org does NOT advertise that it is middle class life, it is advertised as a tough and dedicated bunch. I agree that the Sea Org life is NOT normal middle class life, and I didn't mind the Sea Org life at all.

I chose that life, it was fine in my opinion. Sea Org creature comforts actually improved over the years, the food was better than my family every cooked at home (my final 10 years in the Sea Org the food was actually pretty good, earlier years Sea Org food was often dreadful I agree).

The psychological mental abuse by DM to the top leadership ranks is unprecedented in the Scientology movement's 57 years history. DM's gotten away with stuff the last 25 years that LRH would NOT have condoned, as loony as LRH was with the "overboardings" and other odd things LRH ordered. DM's really tongue lashed people and demeaned them at a higher level than during LRH's time. It's all relative.

The got-bucks supporters of Scientology and the celebs have no idea of the demeaning abuse people have been subjected to at Int due to DM's style these last 25 years that DM has dominated the movement.

DM is operating way off policy per Hubbard's rules, and Hubbard would have removed DM over 2 decades ago. (Hubbard would have removed ALL persons, no one lasted more than 2-4 years before Hubbard found they needed replacing.)

Hubbard's style was just as vicious and sort of "throw people away" style, he could be quite heartless also.

But David Miscavige gets away with his worse style of abuse of the top leadership, only due to the isolated group at Int and their mindset of being tough and taking all the abuse (which is minor in world standards, it is merely mental abuse mainly, like being stuck in a losing position to a leader who is systemically not satisfied and who relishes demeaning punishment, again mainly verbal abuse).

The problem is DM doesn't know how to make a group of leaders to run the movement.

I dare say Hubbard didn't know how to accomplish that either.

Hubbard's whole setup is flawed and whoever tries to play the balancing act of accomplishing success within Hubbard's setup is headed for long-term failure no matter what they do.

Scientology's problems are systemic due to Hubbard's inadequacies, and the fantasies of the Hubbard theology/claims of supernaturally improved people.

Scientology does NOT deliver the OT goods for real.

Keeping Scientology Working is a cyclically undoable goal. Hubbard has set up the movement to continue to fail, and it is only the top dog dictator of the movement who gets to rant and blame the lower people for failing to accomplish the big goals.

There are NO OTs to be made in this world.

Humans are sadly human, and not destined to supernatural abilities like operating exterior causatively.

The whole body thetans infesting us all, supposedly all humans on earth are full of extra spirits, bodiless spirits, the so-called "body thetans" which cause all of our difficulties once a person has swept away his own reactive mind. A person once "clear" has to deal with the thoughts and intentions of these extra spirits, body thetans, in clusters, in the thousands, that attach to each of us.

I mean the upper levels of Scientology lead people into these fantastic beliefs about themselves. A Scientologist is led to believe in just untold numbers of "demons" or spirits, the body thetans, that one by one, or cluster by cluster, must be contacted telepathically using Hubbard's OT 5, OT 6 and OT 7 processes, to "talk" to these spirits.

The upper level theology of Scientology opens the movement up to all sorts of negative perceptions.

Who would believe that we are all infested with these thousands of spirits?

It actually I believe is a cruelty to make a fellow human being be led to believe that they are infested with demons, with these body thetans, these disembodied spirits, who are just like us, except they don't have their own bodies, they are confused and half asleep, but somehow stuck to our bodies.

This is just too much!

There is a huge code of silence about the upper level theology of Scientology, which lends the higher level Scientologists to be silent about what they are doing in Scientology when they practice the Scientology religion.

They cannot discuss their daily processing actions of addressing these disembodied spirits attached to their bodies.

Lower Scientologists are not even allowed to discuss or READ what these Upper level OT processes are about, and that they will be led to believe they are infested with the spirits, clusters of body thetans.

It is really a funny setup.

I think the discussion of the body thetans that supposedly infest ALL human beings, is something that should be discussed openly, and constantly be brought up until the Scientology membership gets what is going on.

If all humankind are supposedly infested with thousands of deal souls of people who lived on other planets, then this predicament needs open discussion and sharing for the people of earth to absorb and judge this theology/cosmology!

Scientology's/Hubbard's ideas about all humans being infested with thousands of souls, body thetans, this is a huge increase on the condition of some people in our cultures who who sense and see ghosts, who sense the presence of dead people's souls.

Scientology is saying that people who do Scientology, will learn how to telepathically communicate, soul by soul, with all these supposedly infested thousands of dead souls of other people long ago who lost their bodies, who lived on other planets in other parts of the universe, who are attached to each of us. We each have to confront, soul by soul, and cluster by cluster, these souls we each carry around piggyback style, unknowingly, until we are led up the Scientology Bridge to Total Freedom, to learn of the existence of our infestation of souls, and rid ourselves of these hitch-hiking souls, and at the end of this all, we supposedly gain the supernatural abilities to exteriorize at will, and are cause over the physical universe, definitely supernatural style!

I think it is relevant, and the whole theology/cosmology, needs to just be discussed, upfront.

The way Scientology is set up, it cannot be discussed. Scientologists have their code of silence and protect the fantasy beliefs, their unprovable beliefs in these thousands of extra souls that are hitch- hiking and hindering everyone's lives unhandled until the great Scientology religion/applied philosophy teaches and trains people how to find and rid themselves of all these hitch-hiking souls. body thetans are just bodiless souls. And we're each souls in our single body. And per Scientology we supposedly have to go through this "wall of fire" and discover and set free all the souls that infest us.

I'm more and more flabbergasted the more I think about what the actual top level Scientologists believe about their own individual infestation of these souls attached to their bodies in the thousands.

It seems more like group delusion, carefully fed to Scientologists, with high high penalties for divulging the secrets of all this infestation.

I think the group, the people, are fine, just like any other group, or club, the people generally get along fine, since humans generally do seem to learn to live and enjoy each other's company in groups, no matter what the club atmosphere of a group is.

Scientology's theology is one thing, to me it is just plain delusion.

The group good the camaraderie, the "tough" attitude of Sea Org members, that's all fine and dandy.

The petty abuse that DM gets away with, it is all part of the unique system of this movement.

There are multiple codes of silence. The Scientologists who are OT and do their OT 3, 5, 6, and 7, are dealing with the body thetans, the hitch-hiking souls in the thousands, that infest each person, person by person, and the OT Scientologists are under their code of silence about discussing the souls infestation scene of themselves and all humanity.

Then the Sea Org staff have their codes of silence about what they do.

Even regular Scientologists have their codes of silence, where they are to refer critical outsiders to the appropriate PR front people of Scientology.

And then there is the most dreadful code of silence of all, Scientologists cut communication with people who fit the Hubbard definition of "enemy" to Scientology and Scientologists, and that just effectively makes it easy for Scientologists to NOT even listen to the criticism of their movement and belief system. Scientology is a self-isolating cult, based on what Hubbard wrote for them to follow, and they cannot NOT follow his rules. Keeping Scientology Working ensures they follow Hubbard's rules. There's a code of silence about everything that the movement members cannot deal with. Hubbard's attack back policies just sidestep the discussion of all of the above.

The OTs live by a heavily penalty system for breaking the code of silence about the body thetans infesting everyone.

The upper Sea Org people have their code of silence about matters at the top ranks of the movement, namely anything embarrassing they witness perpetrated by Sea Org leadership, like DM's stupid "lessons" and verbal abuse, and petty small time slappings and petty violence that David Miscavige has been perpetrating, for which Hubbard two decades ago would have busted David for this stuff. (When David Miscavige spit and then ordered all of the Author Services Incorporated staff, back in 1982, to spit on Homer Schomer, had Hubbard heard of that incident, David Miscavige would have been busted on the spot. Hubbard was crazy, but he wasn't into that type of organized "spitting" on his subordinates, Hubbard never would have ordered Author Services Staff to spit on one of their fellow members, and if Hubbard would have done this, then I think the public ought to know that that is the kind of guy Hubbard is. I think rather, the ASI organized spitting on Homer Schomer, that is David Miscavige.) Scientologists need to know about this dark underside of their movement, and the new people getting into Scientology ought to know.

I think Hubbard's Keeping Scientology Working bold challenge that new people who want to quit, should be allowed to quit fast, I think THAT is what people should do as regards to Scientology!

QUIT FAST!

Chuck Beatty
Ex-Sea Org (lifetime staffer, 1975-2003)
Flag Dec 1975-Jun 1983 (TTC, Sup, Word Clearer, D of T, etc.)
Int Base 1983-1984 (Routing Forms Pjt)
Snr HCO Int in the FB in LA 1984-87 Re-Training (Int and LA) 87-88
Int Training Org, LA 88 (Sec Checker Sup)
LRH Tech Research and Comps, CMO Int, (Sept 88-Feb 89)
Int RPF (Feb-Mar 89)
PAC RPF (Mar-May 89)
Int Training Org (May-Sept 89) (Admin Sup)
INCOMM Sep 89-Sept 90 (Routing Forms Pjt)
INCOMM Sept 90-May92 (Computer Room LA & Int)
ASI May 92-Dec95 (Computer Room, In-Training Esto)
Decks Int (Dec 95-Jun 96)
Int RPF (Jun 96-Nov 2000)
PAC RPF (Nov 2000-Mar2003)
Routed out March 29, 2003.
Join XSO and network to old Sea Org friends:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/XSO/
Chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckbeatty77/
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05205/542899.stm
http:[email protected]/
I live in Pittsburgh, anyone feel free to call
me anytime: 412-260-1170

The L's rundowns are not churning out supernatural people who can causatively operate exterior with visio at will like LRH implies and charges the movement with the responsibility to make such supernaturally improved people!

All criticism would fall to insignificance if Scientology really delivered on the supernatural abilities, but that isn't ever gonna happen, so the members will continue to blame themselves, because Hubbard says they only have themselves to blame for NOT following his "tech" to perfection! It's a massive Catch 22 predicament, the whole Scientology movement.



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