ARS POST #46
From: Chuckbeatty77 ([email protected])
Subject: Re: To Chuck Beatty (was Leaves in the Sea Org)
Date: 20 Nov 2004 23:34:38 -0800
>How do we reach these people?
One thing I know, I started reading the Freedom Mags, loved them, I loved all the old GO publications, and in the Freedom Mags, and in the OSA passarounds, are all the BAD news, and the names of all the ex-SO are in the stories.
The seeds of doubt get planted unfortuntely by their own publications. I also read the news. So when the church gets bad PR, it hits the news.
The media, and their own internal reports, they carry the news inside. The news carries the seeds of doubt about the rightness of the movement. All the euorpean press, that is news that they have to cut and paste and passaround to ASI to others, each week. It's OSA's hat to relay all the news, good and bad, and the bad news gets the truth and plants the seeds of doubt, inside.
When they do their BIG attacks, they proudly proclaim and write what they think are great peices on their great trouncing of the critics or enemies. But their peices are so transparantly bad, their peices to me, when I was in there, just added more seeds of doubt. They did for me, and the doubts accelerated over the years, the higher I went, and the more info I was privy to.
Even if the top guys are the only ones given the bad news from the wog world, the rumors of the news have a way of travelling internally. And the rumors then travel. Despite all of the obligatory loyal Sea Org staff member pooh-poohing of the "bad hat" enemies (former defectors and critics who are painted ridiculously and transparantly overly one-sidedly bad, due to their own irrational one-sided lousy writers) the seeds of doubt are planted.
It took me a while, years to finally line it up in my head, but in the end, I'd gotten the message finally. When I was planning to blow from the Int RPF, if you could read my pc folder, I mentioned Dennis Erlich's name at least 300 times, in all the withholds I had to run almost daily, about my latest plan to blow. Each of my hundreds of plans all included call Dennis and ask him to come out and pick me up.
Had I not read about Dennis in the Freedom mag, and had I not known Dennis from Flag and I knew he was a far better man than the ridicuous Freedom Mag article said he was, and comparing sweaty palmed and sweaty faced Warren McShane as a human being to Dennis Erlich as a human being, well Dennis wins in my book any day, (of course I will apologize to Warren when he comes out, if he makes it out); but, my point was that the church publications gave me the info where Dennis physically was in the world, and I therefore had a possible chance to contact him, in the scenario I was daydreaming about.
But all the horribly one-sided wacko bad writing about Gerry Armstrong, it was such overkill deadagenting of him; and on Jesse; and on Andre Taboyoyan; and on Dennis Erlich. All of the Freedom articles and all the other writeups and event briefings on handling the critics, were just too poorly executed, it planted the seeds in my mind, that the critics and enemies were not who they were being painted out to being.
How else to reach them? Through the media. More articles written on the movement, more entertainment items, like this Children's play. More books, more movies, everything that generates press, helps get the word inside.
Good anti-Scn data in good media articles, will go right into the OSA passarounds (not unless they cut those off, but it is assumed if a person is on the reading list of the OSA passarounds, they are considered immune to the Black PR so the OSA passarounds will continue unless they discover a direct connection between the passarounds and defections), and the seeds of doubt will continue to filter in and around the top of the movement from here on out.
Best, Chuck Beatty
ARS POST #47
From: Chuckbeatty77 ([email protected])
Subject: To Hartley Patterson, re Coup raw info inside the Scn movement
Date: Sat, Nov 27 2004 12:39 pm
Chuck Beatty to Hartley Patterson (re coup info, I think is important to consider),
An internal coup is extremely unlikely. When I was busted (Dec 95), and I went to the Int Base of the Scn movement, and I was sec checked by a top RTC sec checker to see what my problem was, my main 1st subject of being interrogated, in Dec 1995, was COB, DM. The sec check questions asked were all related to having a withhold from COB, being disaffected with DM. The stress at the Int Base, was, and probably still is, detecting and handling disaffection with DM. If that sec checking theme is kept in place as a mainstay action on persons who are blowing up under the strain of life at Int, then DM will continue to be protected and remain at the top of the heap. They have in place an ongoing means to detect disaffection harbored by any of the top players against DM, and not only the top players, but ANYONE at the Int Base.
A real coup would take a few top persons, as only the top persons I think would have any respect from the Int Base staff. There is NO climate at the Int Base, of underlings who would jump ship to another group of top guys. The rank and file under the top Int org execs would wait to be told who is in the right, and who to follow. There is no undercurrent of seething disgust and hatred for DM, or latent hope for DM to be replaced by other top Int Execs who are as equally respected as DM is, despite DM's past vicious behavior.
The Int Base staff in general have a very high regard for DM. How strong that group regard for DM really is, is a subject I wish others who have worked with him in recent years, would offer their input.
In 1983 or 1984, when I was uplines, hanging out on a CMO Int Mission, for the routing forms project, I hung out in a little room adjacent to HCO CMO Int. It was in Del Sol (then the CMO Int and Exec Strata office building, today Del Sol is the auditing building for Qual Gold). Just before Christmas that year, the CMO Int Public Relations Officer did an all Base survey of "Who would you most like to speak at the New Year's Event?" Even though with his history of blunt invalidative and vicious actions against staff fresh on everyone at the Base's minds, the number one requested speaker was DM (David Miscavage). MY (Marc Yaeger) was number two. I recall that DM got more than double the amount of votes than MY.
The point is that DM retains the respect of the Int Base staff, regardless of his harshness.
He does treat people badly. But a 20 year Int vet remarked that he only does it to make a point. The opinion I heard was that DM is usually right in his attacks on people (including the petty signs he had people wear, the disparaging comic drawings caricaturing a person in bad graces, and all the worse spitting, hitting, etc.). The justification for DM's behavior is that he was right in attacking the person. The person truly screwed up.
In Jan 1996 when DM declared MY suppressive, it was because MY said in a sarcastic and disrespectful way, to DM, in effect: "Yea, I'm trying to destroy all your hard work, I'm intentionally trying to screw things up." MY was being sarcastic. DM blew up, declared him, and in Jan 96 was instantly put on the decks, then a year or so later (after a year or more of RTC sec checking and auditing) MY showed up on the Int RPF at Happy Valley. MY's since graduated, spoke at the 2000 event, and I don't have data on his activity since, but I assume he's doing okay.
When I was on the Happy Valley Int RPF, at NO time was there even the vaguest signs of any group disaffected think against DM.
I think MY's comment in Jan 96, is about as close as any top exec near DM has come to even vaguely contemplating anything remotely close to "coup mentality".
There is so much more to write on this, and gather actual data from uplines on this, before anyone can say with any kind of certainty what is really in the minds of those near the top of the heap, regarding coup scenarios that are actually realistic.
Greg Wilhere is about the only person closest to DM, who seriously would be in the running to take over from DM, and be able to do the job DM has assigned himself.
DM has a lot of respect at the Base for taking on basically as close to LRH's hat, as anyone in the movement. The people at the base, being so into the actions and activities that are so all-consuming as they are, in that atmosphere, those there rely and respect DM, the overwhelming vast majority do.
Greg W is a nicer human being than DM. I heard that Greg graduated from Villanova, and was QB of the football team. Greg's that type of guy. He was a great exec and leader, I had him for a senior for about a year, 78-79, when Greg was Commanding Officer Int Training Org. Greg's history is long and he was LRH's attendant on the Apollo for some time. Greg's a CO (Commanding Officer) caliber person. He's been CO of the FSO and DC org, and Int Training Org. Others who've worked with him at ASI and at RTC, who are willing to speak out, will have much more to say. Possibly Greg could not handle DM's role. It's possible, realistically, that no one at Int is the caliber to handle the role DM has assigned himself.
I'd be interested in hearing what others who know of firsthand dealing with DM for some years, former top persons in RTC and CMO Int, have to say about the personnel at the top of the movement. Who could replace DM, realistically.
Norman Starkey I heard is NOT the type to run the whole show, he isn't bright enough. He has his bright ideas, but isn't the type to run the whole movement. He's an exceptional speaker, and that's his strong point.
What I'd like is others who were at or near the top in the last 10 years, to get out their opinions on this. I'm hunting around, but have not found much to read.
To me, that type of opinion, if coming from actual former CMO Int and RTC execs, who fairly discuss the thousands of incidents that have transpired that would give scholars and serious observers of the Scn movement, the raw data to actually correctly place events that are happening in the movement, and come to better conclusions on the state of the movement at the top.
On Freedom Mag, I used to love their material. Tom Whittle was demoted to a writer, if that now. Tom Paquette is no longer writing, and I believe Aaron Mason got busted out of the top spot.
I'm interested in hearing good raw data, on the top echelons, on the actual people on posts at the top, right now. That is the way to be realistic about who and what scenario will actually prevail should there ever be another coup in the movement.
Another raw piece of data, I can offer, I just thought of, is that in 1999, Mark Ingber also arrived. MI (Mark Ingber) has also been CO CMOI for years, off and on. MI didn't display the least bit of dissafection with DM that I could see. MI was even a dorm mate for a short time, in the same dorm as me, when he first arrived. He was gung ho, and in about 4 months or so, after some auditing cleanup, he was ready to return to the base, and I think he actually was reprieved because he was so revitalized by his stay at the Int RPF (mainly his auditing cleanup).
Anyways, this is my raw data input I have to offer on info relating to a coup of DM. It simply ain't gonna happen, in reality, no one is gonna engineer it from inside that I can see.
I'd like to hear from some ex-Int Base people on this, someone with experience in the last 10 years.
I have so much more to say actually. Two other major points. The creature comforts have been put in place, pretty rock solid, at the top of the Scn movement. Meaning improved living conditions. Pay is $50, and it's been more consistent, so that is a major factor. Food has been so much better in the last 10 years (Flag, HGB, PAC Base), it is a whole other consistent level to past years. There are in the last decade a pattern of about 6 guaranteed major parties, the regular events. Org awards are pretty consistent (in the Int RPF and the PAC RPF, awards trickle down, and even RPFers get the leftover cake, and edible treats).
There has been an active attempt in the last 10 years to knock out the senior screaming their lungs out at juniors routine (that result in dramatic blows, etc.). At no time in my 7 years did the Int or PAC RPF I/C's do ANY screaming, no heartless people bashing. In the two years at the PAC RPF, I had my dorm over the ASHO Quad, and overheard dozens and dozens of the org daily talks by John Lundeen (CO ASHO D) and the CO ASHO F (forgot her name), and there was NO angry condemnatory hateful make-wrong talks by either CO.
Oh, and a MAJOR MAJOR financial aspect, the other, what I think critical, point of what allows for a less hurtful internal climate in the Sea Org in the last many years, I observed indirectly at PAC, is that the IAS Membership WUS office's income, a certain percentage, somehow helps finance the PAC Base. And I would guess that IAS Membership offices attached to any Scn continental Sea Org Unit (the CLOs-Contintal Liaison Offices) all now are very likely assisted in their funding by IAS Membership contributions. That added income source for CLOs is significant, to relieve the pressure of just housing, feeding, and rewarding Sea Org member's production. THIS INCOME SOURCE IS SIGNIFICANT I feel, to allowing MORE creature comforts, keeping the disaffection way down, internally.
This last is significant, to preventing Sea Org staff disaffection. The creature comforts have improved.
I have more to say on family (on the one hand they try to get spouses to live together these days, and have had that trend for the last decade also, even though inevitably due to the parameters of the Sea Org, the husband-wife breakups still happen.)
If there are some wog books on the subject of the raw mechanics of successful coups, I'd be interested in reading summaries of what those are, and then relate what have historically been accepted as coup requirements, and then compare them with what is occurring internally, uplines. That'd be useful, to an educated observer of the Scn movement's top ranks.
Best, Chuck Beatty
ARS POST #48
From: Chuckbeatty77 ([email protected])
Subject: Question re Leni Riefenstahl and LRH
Date: Sun, Nov 28 2004 4:28 pm
Does anyone recall in recent years, the mentioning at one of the bigger Scn events (in the years 2001, 2002), where it was brought up that LRH had been in written communication with Leni Riefenstahl (she's the pre-WW II cinematographer). Leni did national films for Hitler's Germany.
The letter exchange between them would have been sometime between 1959-63, and it was Leni's asking LRH to do a screenplay for her. That's what I recall hearing at one of the 2000 or 2001 events (which even the PAC RPFers are now allowed to watch on video after the live events).
This info may have been in a blurb on LRH's history as a screenplay writer, either as part of an ASI presentation, or either part of a biography presentation by Danny Sherman.
I can't find this on any search on the internet. Gerry Armstrong may recall seeing the LRH letters between the two.
The point is simply why on god's earth would Leni go to Hubbard for help on her work? Why not other screenwriters? She has her own long duration denial of her role in Nazi Germany's propaganda. The story of why she apparantly selected and wrote to LRH in the late 50's to do a screenplay for one of her projects (which she apparantly had difficulty bringing her film projects to a conclusion, if I were to believe what I saw on TV recently), this would be a interesting story to track down.
Again assuming this recall of mine is in the ballpark.
Mike Gormez Nov 28 2004, 5:36 pm show options
Just enter both names plus 'scientology' in Google groups and you have
Just enter both names plus 'scientology' in Google groups and you have your references.
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