Chuck Beatty
Internet Posts, November 2004




55 ARS POST #17
71 ARS POST #32
From: Chuckbeatty77 ([email protected])
Subject: To Chuck Beatty (was Leaves in the Sea Org)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Date: 2004-11-20 22:48:31 PST

[email protected] (Lulu Belle) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Chuck Beatty) wrote in message
>
>
> >
> > > Better conditions, maybe eventually being able to have time off, maybe
> > > eventually being able to take a leave, or have some semblance of a
> > > normal life, is a carrot on a stick that is held under the noses of
> > > staff. It is always held just out of their reach.
> > >
> > > Work harder harder harder harder HARDER and maybe you will actually
> > > get libs/ a leave/ a bonus/ decent berthing. Whatever.
> > >
> > > It is total, absolute, complete and utter bullshit.
> >
> > Okay, but there are plenty of examples where LRH let people splurge,
> > LRH bought Monica Quirino a car, LRH told David Ziff NOT to donate his
> > hundred thousand dollars of inheritance to the church but to keep and
> > enjoy his inheritance money since David would likely need it later in
> > life, LRH told ASI the 3 different levels of awards they were to
> > induldge in weekly if their stats were up, and believe me ASI did
> > SPLURGE year after year under DM.
>
>
>

> First of all. Chuck, I want to apologize in advance. I *know* I'm
> picking on you, and I'm sorry. It really isn't personal. I think
> you're a great guy, and you are being a really good sport about it,
> too.
>
> It's just that some of the stuff you say "pushes my buttons." It's
> not YOU saying them, per say. It's just a reminder of things I have
> "issues" about.
>
> Now that I've gone through the niceties, on to the point of this post
> - lol.
>
>
> What you have said in the above post actually *underlines* what I have
> said about people "clinging to the hope that the knight will rescue
> them."
>
> LRH bought one staff member a car. THIRTY YEARS AGO. LRH told David
> Ziff, one staff member, to keep his inheritance. THIRTY YEARS AGO.
>
> (The ASI thing I'm not even going to comment on. ASI "rewarding
> themselves" has everything to do with the income of the lower orgs
> getting raped and pillaged ever since.)
>
> The point is: When things are really fucked, there's always something
> brought up by a staff member of some incident in the remote past where
> LRH said or did something nice for someone, like in 1969.
>
> It's a known fact that LRH, to put it nicely, had his "good days" and
> "bad days." On one of his "good days" he might have done something to
> reward a staff member in his entourage.
>
> It means nothing in the overall scheme of things. It was a very long
> time ago, and even at the time, it was sporadic. Mixed in with his
> "bad days"; days where he would have rages where he would throw the
> same staff on the RPF because he was pissed at them for whatever
> reason.
>
> But, a staff member will pull these isolated incidents out of the long
> ago past to give themselves warmnfuzzy feelings and to make themselves
> believe that whatever is actually going on in present time is just a
> temporary bad spell.
>
> Because LRH said something nice or did something nice on the Apollo
> once probably twenty years before that staff member ever even *heard*
> of Scientology.
>
>
> Sorry. It's another button of mine, I guess. You have a talent for
> pushing them. LOL!

Oh good, you don't hate me! I really have a soft shell sometimes, and when it cracks I then think like a wog, and dismiss the whole fucking stupid movement and just insert one of the dismissive conclusions, like the great beat writer William Burroughs, which I just posted, from 1970, where Burroughs in the LA Free Press in 1970, he lays out LRH in quick summary form. Burroughs was an OL for me, like I am sure he was for lots of that generation. (How I got into Scn and missed keeping up with things, I can't exlain that easily though.)

Also, I agree on Hubbard. He evolved into the rolly-polly retired Buddha-Stalin on pysche drugs. Gore Vidal has a great one-liner describing LRH's charm, gregariousness and malevolence simultaneously. I'll dig it up and post it too.

No worries, I agree.

Staying on the subject of totalitarian despots, just for a weird parallel moment (something a scriptwriter likes to stick into those brief moments in movies), you know in my last official months on a post in the Sea Org (summer 1995), one Saturday I was riding in the ASI van driving from LA to Gilman Hot Springs, Saturdays were ASI's study day, they study in the Gold Qual courseroom, we all were on our way to study, I was reading a fascinating newly published book (I was Book of the Month Club, and thought that was completely justified, since I worked at ASI, a supposed literary agency, I thought at least someone there should read books, don't you think?). I was reading my BOTMC selection which was about Chairman Mao. This was a critical insider's book by Mao's doctor, you may have heard about it or seen it.

It was a great look at Mao's daily life (sort of if Jim Dincali--whose New York '73 trip with LRH I have since read--had been two decades with LRH, and Jim fled and did a book on daily life with Ron). Anyways when I was riding in the ASI van, doing small talk, I felt kinda odd. Like maybe I shouldn't be reading this book. Here I am in a very similar obviously totalitarian movement (I'd by now heard the bad PR press, I was privy to the OSA passarounds that get sent to each ASI staff member from OSA, weekly detailing all the bad media on the church, and ASI staff are primo bruised and beaten veteran sycophants of DM's years in ASI), and here I am being my best little naive numb yes-sir-boy (I was the computer lackey at the time I believe), but I'm reading and explaining to all listening in the van, about good old totalitarian Mao and his bonehead bright ideas (the Great Leap Forward for one) that ended up causing mass starvation and other horrendous conditions for the Chinese people. This made some strange silent reverberations. These people had been there, felt that type of power emanating from someone they all remembered. (DM left ASI in 1986 I think.)

But guess who in the van was THE MOST interested in this book? James Byrnes, Enid's husband.

He was hitching a ride with ASI that week, and he was fascinated with the book and he insisted I lend it to him when I was done, which I did. Maybe someday, James will . . .

Anyways, I do know what a normal middle class reader knows about Stalin and Mao, and I thank you for holding fast to your obviously well thought out conclusions. And for sure LRH is right in there to a certain degree.

I hope to flush out some others to open up and download their corrobative experinces. (Or in my continued reading I will discover what is already written up, since I am admittedly still very new to this.)

I so wish that MSH would write, or that she has written, and that what she has written (no matter what she says, whatever she has written) to me it will be such a boon to academics to have whatever she writes. Same for all others near LRH, good or bad, they need to lay down what they heard and saw, period, whatever their slant. There will always be some smart people up the road who will sort through their material, and get it right. Witness, you, and how many other dozens and dozens already.

I really wish all the old GO guys, and even any of the Govt infiltrators, if there ever really were any, or any of the GO guys who knew there fellow GO people were supposedly govt people or govt paid people, or whatever, that whole angle would be great to have people write at least into some form, so that those writings could at least be released to the public after they are all dead and gone.

I am sure some will oblidge the future historians and write whatever they can. Now. Before they're dead and gone.

Right now, to me, the vacuum seems to be no data on the last decade from uplines. The people who've left from there have been silenced or don't care to bother. I want to urge and encourage them to come forth and start laying down some new raw material. Even if it does not get released until they are dead. If they are for that type of thing.

Best, Chuck Beatty

73 ARS POST #34
From: Chuckbeatty77 ([email protected])
Subject:Chris Guider and Gary Conley, both old Inspecter
General Master at Arms RTC (IG MAA RTC)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Date: 2004-11-18 11:22:34 PST

Dear Chuck

I found your post on Emilio Bertinato very very interesting.

Is Chris Guider, the Int Base RPF, originally Australian? I knew a Chris Guider when I went to AOSH ANZO to do Solo Part 1 up to OT4, over 10 years ago. He used to play football - Rugby Union - before he joined the SP, and continued to play on for a short time even while he was in the SO. He was a nice guy, and i got the impression then that he would follw the tech and policy to the nth degree.

Love reading your posts.

. . .
---------------------------------------

Dear ...,

Hello. I'm glad someone likes my posts.

Chris Guider is inded the "Mighty Midget" from the pro Rugby Union in Australia. From what I recall him telling me one time when he was driving me from the Int RPF to the PAC RPF, he said he had a bad injury and then got into Scn, got well enough to contine, but then again in the end got injured enough he decided to quit the football, and as you noted, then he continued in the Sea Org.

He said the league was really tough. He explained being in the pro league saying that the pros were even tougher and harder than any lower league. He said it was flat out full tilt running all game long, compared to lower leagues, where in the lower leagues he had time to catch a breather, and walk a bit during parts of the game. In the pros it was flat out running all game, and bashing.

He got crushed a few too many times, got hurt and retired. But he was the "Mighty Midget" and a notable celebrity in his own right in the pros in Australia.

Yes, Chris is very straightforward, and I do hope he does something on what I wrote, but you know they do NOT keep track of ARS, the normal staff don't ever read ARS, and not unless I said something which sounded like Chris told me something, and I was posting something disparageable that he said, which they would then have to ask him about, not unless something like that happened, he would never know that I was posting about him. Only if it looks like someone on the outside has some connection or received some bad data from someone on the inside, would they contact Chris and interrogate him on his connection to me.

I liked him for many of his characteristics, but also, he is very much a team player, and you know that he also was the Inspector Generall Master at Arms (IG MAA) in RTC for a few years, which is a very high post outlined by LRH as a needed post, and it is a post that oversaw the ethics at the whole Int Base for years. Today the IG MAA post has lessened in its influence at the Base, and I think Chris was the last one to hold it effectively.

Surprisingly enough, it was two Aussies, Gary Conley and Chris Guider, who held the Inspector General Master at Arms (IG MAA) RTC post with distinction at the Int Base. They both got busted, but both had their high times on that post also.

On the other hand, there are serious trends that go on, which I have had validated by other former Int Base staff who have contacted me, there are these trends and fads at the Base that go on, and these trends and fads DO get stomped out. But those trends and fads run for weeks, months and sometimes years, before they get stomped out again.

One such trend is the off-loading of people that are a mistake to offload. In the cases of these RPFers being offloaded from the PAC RPF, and many are former Int Base staff who were first on the Int RPF, then demoted to the PAC RPF, and now those persons are being offloaded from the PAC RPF, of course I do not have the inside data on why the Int Base no longer considers them valuable enough to even keep in the Sea Org.

But the main omitted, to someone like me, I used to work in Senior HCO Int in the 80's and back then, is that there have been periods when RTC bent over backwards to set up Boards of Reviews for persons who thought they'd been unjustly ousted. The point is that TODAY, there is a definite lack of "reprieves", which are letting a person OUT of the RPF even though they have not completed the RPF program.

There have been reprieves off and on over the years in the Sea Org, but right now, the reprieves are off.

Now that I mentioned this, we'll see if someone catches wind, someone who is in a position to turn ON the spigot of reprieves, and we'll see if they salvage some of these vet Sea Org members they appear to be tossing out. (Of course they could be tossing these guys out due to details that we simply do not have all the data on, but in any case, there is still that LRH reference, page 364, bottom paragraph, which says the point about no matter if a person is guiltly, the "value of a person in general" has to be wieghed against whatever actual screwup the person committed.

In my 27 years experience, the internal screwups are due to the fact that Sea Org terminals in positions of authority set in place trends that unfortunately overshadow other LRH policies, usually due to their not being broadminded enough to take into consideration those other LRH datums (and sometimes not being aware of these other LRH datums), and not being able to truly think and judge what to do correctly, and thus not being able to foresee the ramifications of their actions. As a consequence the Sea Org cyclically and repeatedly heads into these apparantly untoward fads and trends.

Best, Chuck Beatty
ex-Sea Org, '75-'03

PS: And of course all I said is NOT taking into consideration all of the major major more simple critical views on the whole movement, I only give these remarks from the inside the machine viewpoint, the internal screwup viewpoint.

74 ARS POST #35
From: Chuckbeatty77 ([email protected])
Subject: Chris Guider and Gary Conley, both old Inspecter
General Master at Arm (IG MAAs RTC)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Date: 2004-11-19 09:53:13 PST

[email protected] (Lulu Belle) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Chuck Beatty) wrote in message
>
>
>
> >
> > I liked him for many of his characteristics, but also, he is very much
> > a team player, and you know that he also was the Inspector Generall
> > Master at Arms (IG MAA) in RTC for a few years, which is a very high >BR>> > post outlined by LRH as a needed post, and it is a post that oversaw
> > the ethics at the whole Int Base for years. Today the IG MAA post has
> > lessened in its influence at the Base, and I think Chris was the last
> > one to hold it effectively.
>
>
> Chuck,
>
> I have a question.
>
> Where does the information that "LRH outlined the IG MAA RTC" post
> come from?
> >BR>> It's my understanding that the whole RTC concept, along with all the
> posts and postings that come with it, is a Miscavige creation. I'm not
> personally aware of any reference(s) that actually came from LRH about
> any of it.
>
> Do you know?

Lulu Belle,

Re: IG MAA RTC post, there were two long LRH advices in the early 80's and I seem to recall (now that I go over this in my head) that the sequence was that Gary might have been put on post by DM like you say, and when LRH was apprised of Gary's posting, or when Gary did a Non-E to LRH, that LRH then responded to Gary with the two IG MAA advices, and thus those answers from LRH were the basis for what the IG MAA post was to encompass. I think that is how it went.

Best, Chuck Beatty

75 ARS POST #36
From: Chuckbeatty77 ([email protected])
Subject: Chris Guider and Gary Conley, both old Inspecter
General Master at Arms RTC (IG MAA RTC)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Date: 2004-11-21 23:39:55 PST

[email protected] (Lulu Belle) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Chuck Beatty) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
>
>
>
> > One other thing that intrigued me were the endless Evaluations, the
> > administrative ones, which supposedly sort out the screwup situations
> > that are continually being evaluated and "sorted out".
> >
> > Today and for the last twenty plus years, in the Exec Strata at Int,
> > the Eval Corps gets assigned lists of situations to evaluate, and they
> > have to sort them out.
> >
> > Eval Corps is always overloaded, and the evals get assigned to others
> > in Exec Strata, and when the important evals don't get done, then they
> > sometimes roll up to CMO Int terminals, the WDC Members over the
> > sectors, to actually do the needed evals.
> >
> > Evals are an ongoing thing, and evals determine which way the wind
> > blows, evals initiate strategy revision, evals initiate all the NEW
> > things that appear on the Scn horizon.
>
>
>
>
> Sorry, Chuck.
>
>
> It's backwards. Evals don't determine the way the winds blow. If only
> they would. Some really good honest evals based on real WHYs might
> actually help the orgs and help the staff.
>
> "The way the winds blow" is what DETERMINES the evals.
>
> I recall someone who used to be an Evaluator at Exec Strata actually
> ADMITTING to another staff member that "doing evals is *extremely*
> political."
>

Okay, for sure, DM sets the trends, and others catch his signals, and everyone then knows how to act, once they see DM cream this person or that, the details of each snuffing spread around the Base in minutes, and even before DM arrives at the next office on an inspection tour, they might already know how he creamed the guys in the last office.

Fine, agreed.

I am nostalgic for some news about what's been going on at the Int Base though, and I'm open for new news.

Does anyone know even who's on what posts these days, in any of the WDC posts, etc., etc.?

There is always the current and past major Int Base priorities, I haven't heard a written recent years debrief of one single Saturday night briefing by DM, and these briefings happen how many times a month? Quite a few.

Is this person you know who was an Eval Corps evaluator, have they done any writeups of life and the fads and trends and highlights of their years, people, things of interest.

Sounds like this person would be a great source of detailed info on various things.

I had expected to read about current affairs at Int on the internet, when I started looking on the Internet. It's vacant.

To me it is sad that only the best of the worst news came out, and those persons who were getting it out, got silenced or lost interest. Sort of like the cream got splashed off the top, and the top old bad guys lost interest. There is so much more they could tell.

Now, the flow of info is dead, from what's happening at the Int Base, and even those persons who got out the best of the worst news (Vicki, Jesse, Vaughn, Stacy) they could still fill mounds and mounds of pages of details of life at the Int Base.

Stacy knows all about the ASI personel, flaps, strategies, parties at ASI in LA in the 80's. Vicki would be excellent for reams on her day to day experiences, same with Rick.

Paul and Janice Grady, Paul oversaw the missions fired based on how many evals? Probably 300-500 missions fired by him. Janice? Can you imagine what she could say were she asked and wished to answer, all the things, all the meetings, there are so many people, over the years. There are hundreds of players that are not at Int today, that each have stories to tell.

There are all sorts of people I haven't even heard about, but who know all sorts of things. Mark Fisher, Terri Gamboa, to get even one person, to list over the years all the Int Base people who are NOT active (meaning left in BAD graces) is probably in the hundreds. (All the former CMOI execs, Dede Reisdorf, etc.)

Somehow the data needs to make it into the public domain, in writeups, on the internet. (Worst case, I hope these people do writeups/bios to be released when they die, if they can and they want.)

Jim Logan, who phoned into the Int Base after he'd gotten out, and he got Annie Tidman (Broeker) to almost escape, where's Jim? His side of this story would be great to hear.

And Pat Broeker. He's the most wanted ex-Int Base staffer of all time.

I hope to hell, for history's sake, Pat Broeker, you please please, write up all you can (I was a lowly INCOMM staffer and a routing forms pjt missionaire, and read a number of your long long detailed despatches, the "PB advices"), so please please write up what you can, and hopefully it will we releaseable someday, even if only after you have passed away.

There are thousands of stories, and hundreds who have been uplines, who've witnessed an iceberg amount of events compared to the tip of the berg that is out there now.

I hope all start putting their stories down, at least for future release.

Best, Chuck Beatty 412-260-1170

76 ARS POST #37
From: Chuckbeatty77 ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Chris Guider and Gary Conley, both old Inspecter General
Master at Arms RTC (IG MAA RTC)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Date: 2004-11-19 10:39:27 PST
58 ARS POST #20
From: Chuckbeatty77 ([email protected])
Subject: Re: two stories from the RPF Newsletter
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Date: 2004-11-13 19:43:35 PST View this article only Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Date: 2004-11-21 20:12:48 PST [email protected] (Keith Henson) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>... > On 18 Nov 2004 11:22:33 -0800, [email protected] (Chuck Beatty) > wrote: > > snip > > > >There have been reprieves off and on over the years in the Sea Org, > >but right now, the reprieves are off. > > > >Now that I mentioned this, we'll see if someone catches wind, someone > >who is in a position to turn ON the spigot of reprieves, and we'll see > >if they salvage some of these vet Sea Org members they appear to be > >tossing out. > > Chuck, I think this is unlikely. The reason is that business or > religion, when income goes down all organizations have to shrink > staff. > > It costs to keep even Sea Org staff. Someone could probably put a > better number on it, but it's between $5,000 and $10,000 thousand a > year. > > I think that's what you are seeing, modified by the need to damage > people by abusing them in the RPF so they will be seen as crazy by law > enforcement and to let the crimes they were involved with go beyond > the statute of limitations. > > Fascinating stuff. I really appreciate your postings. > > Keith Henson

Dear Keith,

thank you for the above comments.

Yes, that makes sense, they are doing these busts to the RPF and offloads, to cut expenses, basically downsizing.

On the point of the damaging and abusing of people being offloaded, that's something I can get a glimpse of understanding where you are coming from, but I have a lot more education (reeducation) to do, to connect those dots.

What I see, is I was being groomed to be willing to pay off my freeloader bill, and to be willing to go up the Bridge. I see I was being pushed in that direction, as part of the bargain to being allowed to finally go in good standing. So I played that role to get out, and when out, I didn't intend to play that role any further, hence here I am now.

Best, Chuck Beatty

77 ARS POST #38
From: Chuckbeatty77 ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Salary at Bridge
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Date: 2004-11-23 14:05:41 PST

[email protected] (Cerridwen) wrote in message
news:...
> NOTE: This message was sent thru a mail2news gateway.
> No effort was made to verify the identity of the sender.
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
> On 20 Nov 2004, [email protected] (Lulu Belle) wrote:
>

Hi Cerridwen, Lulu,

I was at ASI up till Dec 95, and twinned with Don Arno of Bridge, when I did my KTL and LOC as an ASI staff member, at Int Training Org in the HGB, in 93 or 94.

While twinning with Don Arno, I learned about the pay scene at Bridge. I recall Bridge had problems paying their staff, some got paid, others got books instead of pay, and some years, all the non-paid pay they'd get at the end of the year, to ensure they conformed withthe pay laws. So at least Bridge staff got paid at the end of the year, due to wog law.

Don mentoned that he often just turned his pay right back over to Bridge, buying books with his pay, which when he was paid at the end of the year in big amounts, he'd get thousands of dollars, at the end of the year, which he'd turn back over and buy books from Bridge with this thousands of dollars. Don had virtually every item Bridge offered for sale, or nearabouts.

I recall he and I did a swap. He liked my fancy pen I got for Christmas, as the Int level org LRH gift, that was given out that year to all Int level staffers. And Don traded me a couple of his millions of books, I liked books (and I ended up spending many thousands of my ASI pay on all sorts of leatherbound LRH books, etc.), and he got my Mont Blanc pen, that was the "in" pen for a while.

An example of the weird bargaining system, when money in the Sea Org isn't in supply, then the things the staffers gain control over get bartered.

I think Cerridwen's observations are correct, although I wasn't there to confirm them.

Best, Chuck Beatty

78 ARS POST #39
From: Chuckbeatty77 ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Salary at Bridge
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Date: 2004-11-17 21:11:41 PST
>
>. . . .reader, ensure they are paying for you social security
> retirement because when you get old or sick they'll throw you out on
> the streets and you will become a 'homeless DB' since you're disconnected
> from your family and probably don't have children, better yet, leave
> and don't forget to take as many documents as you can...ah yes, and
> turn off the lights...
>
>
> Lagniappe

Dear Lagniappe,

Thanks for this post. I have my own experience and extensive thoughts on this matter.

I was in ASI from 92 till 95, then busted, then RPFed, etc. (my whole story I posted several months ago).

I worried about this, about my 17th year in the Sea Org, I started to worry that I'd have no money, etc., when I was 65, and if I got booted out, for some reason, as a Sea Org member.

Your thoughts are thought by people in the Sea Org, I sure thought about it, slightly.

I was at ASI, and was getting the same salary as Bridge staff, rather they were on the same pay plan as ASI, ASI having initiated that type of pay play first I believe, and Bridge copied them.

Anyways, since getting out of the Sea Org, and becoming a wog again, I've given this more thought, and in the meantime I received my Social Security printout they send you, telling you how much they will pay you per month when you hit 65 and 72 (if you choose to defer your Social Security payments until you are 72).

The Sea Org didn't pay any social security for me, for about 10 of my over 2 dozen years. The way social security works, is that I'll get MORE out of social security than what I put in. In fact I have to admit, I was on the Int RPF when my social security statement arrived for me, and I can tell you reading it, I saw that I was getting a LOT more than I ever put in. That is how the social security system works, for us who have NOT put alot into it. We just get back MORE than we put in. This fact helped me get over the fear of how I woud survive in my old age, which I can tell you, DID weigh on me, and scared me a bit into sticking with the Sea Org, when I should have gotten out years earlier.

When I finally got out of the Sea Org, I found out that no matter how small your social security is, when you get 65 or older, you qualify to live in any number of the old people's apartment complexes, and they deduct 1/3 of whatever your social security payments are, and the rest of your payment you have to live on.

This fact was another minor relief to me, just getting this additional information.

Realize that realistically, people inside the Sea Org, hearing of the horrors of how bad it'll be if they leave the Sea Org late in their lives, it can tend to trap one even more in the Sea Org, which is not good obviously.

In my first months out, I spent a good deal of time in the public library, reading all about all the free services available in Los Angeles, just in case in a worst case scenario I needed to take advantage of them.

Once I sorted out all the worst case scenario services that I could rely on, if I needed to, my accumulated worries about making the move from Sea Org to wog again, evaporated.

I spent a lot of time learning LA, getting used to all different parts of the city (using the bus and subway system). In a year, through all my exploration, I made LA my home.

I moved out of LA to Pittsburgh now, but LA is my fallback city that I will return to in my final years in life most likely. The mass transportation system I am totally familiar with, and I know how to get anywhere using the bus and subway. I know all the free places, all the great parts, all the great mountain trails, all the coastline beautiful sights, the museums, the great ethnic communities, etc., etc.. I sightseed all over LA my first year out of the Sea Org, and know my way around it, and if one can tolerate all the various aspects of LA, then it is really an easy city to survive in (in my opinion, and I am considering it strongly for my final final years in life).

I think it is important to realistically NOT paint too much of a horror picture of how bad it will be for those coming out of the Sea Org late in their lives, because to some, it could drive some to stay in at all costs.

Better, I think, is to also let those inside the Sea Org know, that there are a variaty of ways one can survive, in one's last years (meaning 65 and older), and it just takes a bit of hatting in what can be done.

Also, I can tell you that the salaried Sea Org members, like ASI and Bridge, or Galaxy staff are now, in my opinion, since I lived that life for 3 years, I found I had MUCH more money than I did when I was a regular Sea Org member getting 50 bucks (45 bucks after deductions) each week. At ASI I easily had thousands of dollars each year extra.

It may seem like having 60-120 bucks to live on each week seems like not much to you, on the outside, but to a Sea Org member, even at ASI, that extra cash added up to a lot to me. I didn't waste my money outrageously, I splurged a lot, but I still ended up with thousands leftover each year (I ended up buying thousnads and thousands of dollars worth of LRH books, the leatherbound books that ASI specializes in selling, I had over $7-8 G's of leatherbound books, in the end when I left ASI). I felt too guilty just saving up money in my bank account, knowing that regular Sea Org members could NEVER save up money on their 50 per week Sea Org pay. I felt too guilty, so spent all my extra money mainly on LRH books, to flow my excess $$ back into ASI, from which my pay came anyways.

You got to realize when a person is in the Sea Org, they normally don't spend too much time at all thinking about being 64 and what they'd have to do if they were out of the Sea Org for some reason and how they'll survive if that happened.

It is out=ethics to be contemplating being a wog, and living in the wog world. Thinking those type of thoughts constitute having "doubts about being a Sea Org member", which is NOT a good thing for a Sea Org member. It means they are in a condition of doubt, or minimally they will have some explaining to do, if they cough up having these thoughts about how they'd survive outside the Sea Org in their old age.

So again, trying to scare Sea Org members with how difficult it will be for them when they get out, I feel is not as smart as letting them know if they do plan to make the move OUT of the Sea Org in their later years, to NOT worry.

Because in the worst case scenarios they can scrape by on social security and stay in one of the old people's housing projects, where 1/3 of whatever their social security payments go towards their apt.

If they opt for the worst case scenario lifestyle, they will have a tight spartan life ahead, but compared to living in the Sea Org, even that tight spartan life out in the wog world, is MILES better and MILES more freedom than life in the Sea Org!!!

Chuck Beatty

79 ARS POST #40
From: Chuckbeatty77 ([email protected])
Subject: Re: The death of Yvonne Jentzsch (was To Chuck Beatty (was Leaves in the Sea Org))
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Date: 2004-11-19 18:19:31 PST

Skip Press wrote in message news:<181120041920526494%
[email protected]>...
> In article <[email protected]>, Lulu
> Belle wrote:
>
> > [email protected] (Chuck Beatty) wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]>...
> >
> >
> >
> > > The Sea Org member leave of absence is a suppressive can't have run on
> > > Sea Org members by the Sea Org at this time. Maybe in years long long
> > > ago, or even now occassionally it may have been granted in good faith.
> > >
> > > But for decades now it has devolved for the majority of Sea Org
> > > members into a suppressive can't have.
> > >
> > > It is something that Sea Org members have to revive themselves and
> > > handle this, so they take advantage of it. Outside intervention won't
> > > do it on this issue.
> > >
> > > Chuck Beatty
> >
> >
> > Oh god, Chuck.
> >
> > I can't believe you actually said this.
> >
> > If there is anything that's a bigger piece of bullshit than "Sea Org
> > members get three weeks a year annual leave", it's "Sea Org members
> > have to revive themselves and handle this."
> >
> > It implies that staff actually have some kind of POWER and CONTROL of
> > what goes on. It implies that, by them doing or saying something,
> > things will actually CHANGE for them - that they can actualy DO
> > something to make things change.
> >
> > This lie gets run on the staff all the time by management. "The reason
> > why you (staff of PAC/Flag/UK/EU/wherever) have (low pay/horrible
> > berthing/low income/whatever) is because YOU HAVE LOW STANDARDS. It is
> > YOUR FAULT that your conditions are poor."
> >
> > That is the biggest piece of crap, the biggest lie, there is.
> >
> > Better conditions, maybe eventually being able to have time off, maybe
> > eventually being able to take a leave, or have some semblance of a
> > normal life, is a carrot on a stick that is held under the noses of
> > staff. It is always held just out of their reach.
> >
> > Work harder harder harder harder HARDER and maybe you will actually
> > get libs/ a leave/ a bonus/ decent berthing. Whatever.
> >
> > It is total, absolute, complete and utter bullshit.
> >
> > Face it. Chuch management does not give a flying fuck about any staff
> > member. About their conditions, about their feelings, about their
> > "issues." About ANYTHING that they need or want personally. They need
> > them to work. They will push their buttons, any buttons they have,
> > about what they need or want, to get more work out of them. They will
> > work them to death with the just -out-of-their-reach promise of
> > prosperity and a better life.
> >
> > I can't believe you spent as long a time on the RPF, not to mention
> > how long a time you spent on staff, as you did, and you can't see
> > this.
> >
> > If you think for one minute that staff could somehow "make their
> > feelings felt" and get some kind of change happening to their benefit,
> > then you must of somehow missed some of the great Sea Org moments of
> > the last twenty or so years.
> >
> > Like when family time was cancelled, and people were sec checked,
> > declared and otherwise decimated for protesting about no longer being
> > able to see their children. Like when staff were told they had to
> > divorce their non Sea Org spouses or get thrown out and/or declared.
> > Like when staff were told they could no longer communicate to family
> > members who were "freeloaders." Like when staff were told if they
> > didn't get their stats rocketed/confirms for the New Years Event
> > rocketed/get the orgs filled with public during the holidays that
> > Christmas was being cancelled, period.
> >
> > A few magic moments, among a million others.
> >
> > Believe me when I tell you this. There is no knight on a white horse
> > who will rescue the Sea Org staff.
> >
> > I know.
> >
> > They all wait for one.
> >
> > How many times have I heard, "This this and this was going on and LRH
> > found out about it and declared all the SPs and things were better."
> > All the SO staff, especially the ones who have been around a long
> > time, cling to this hope. That somehow The Good Being who is supposed
> > to be watching over them will rescue them from the insanity. They wait
> > for it. They cling to the hope that all the bad stuff will go away.
> > The SPs will be discovered, and it will all go away.
> >
> > It's not EVER going to go away.
> >
> > It's just going to get worse.
> >
> > Somehow you seem to have been able to go through what you went through
> > - being on staff for a lot of years, being on the RPF for however
> > long you were, being under twenty four hour watch for at least a year
> > - and still have come out with some sort of optimism.
> >
> > I guess, in a way, it's admirable.
> >
> > It's also delusional.
> >
> > It's time for reality to kick in.
> >
> > Sorry.
>
> I knew a woman named Yvonne Jentzsch. She started Celebrity Centre and
> hand-groomed many of the current $cientology celebrities with a fairy
> godmother type of approach.
>
> She also only got about 2-3 hours of sleep per night for years and
> years. Caught in a power struggle of management, she got busted off
> running the organization she started from nothing.
>
> She was "paid off" by being given the "Public Relations" Organization.
> In other words, keep doing what you do best and make us some more
> money, honey.
>
> When she got a brain tumor, she was under the impression that L. Ron
> Hubbard would ride in on a white horse and rescue her, or send a coach
> from on high. After all, hadn't she been there to personally nurse him
> after he "broke his back while doing OT3 research"?
>
> Nobody saved her. She was warned by people close to Hubbard that he
> wouldn't do anything if she was no longer in a condition to be used by
> him. She didn't believe it. I'm not sure if her husband at the time,
> Heber Jentzsch, believed it.
>
> She died from her brain tumor, supposedly having decided that it would
> be more efficient to "drop her body" rather than have an operation and
> be a few years of rehabilitation. And when she died, Hubbard put out a
> single sheet of paper thanking her for her service and welcoming her
> back to the Sea Org in advance, once she reached 21 years of age in her
> new life.
>
> After all, like all Sea Org members, Yvonne had signed a billion year
> contract.
>
> Not that Hubbard ever signed one.
>
> That's the reality of the evil son of a bitch who started the "Sea
> Organization.'
>
> He knew a lot about the so-called Suppressive Person - he was writing a
> case study of himself.
>
> Try that reality on for size, Chuck.

Thanks Skip,

I was at Flag when Yvonne came, in 1977, and when she passed away.

Well, some of us, are as gullible as we are.

Whatever man.

I read your 1977 RPF's RPF writeup, which I found astoundingly similar to the way it is now, except the food is better, and when I came to the "turkey" stage, I just refused to cooperate and took walks, which they now allow, and walked up and down the ridges in Griffith Park about 6 times, taking my "watch" with me, and I went to the LA Public Libarary, got on-line, even read some of the LRH naval history, although I was still technically in the RPF's RPF (well even worse, in the totally isolated category with the 24 hour personal watch). I even was reading some stuff on David Mayo, sitting at the computer in the LA public library when Kirsten Caetano and the Security Guard at PAC walked up on me, my watch was 20 feet away at the library table reading.

So things have changed somewhat, and some haven't.

There still are gullible people in the movement. And I admit to being whatever you wish to characterize me as.

I do read alot of the internet, and I am endlessly finding more and more intelligent writeups that lay out the whole scene.

I'm still plowing through Roy Wallis' work, and steadily working through Dave Touretzky's site of listed works on the movement.

I have had lots of people contact me by email and phone, and I appreciate the advice.

I was an Asst Sup in the Flag Bureaux Exec College when Yvonne came, and she was on course under Al Baker (Lead Sup of the Exec College), and myself, I was Asst Sup. She was a very nice lady, and after she passed, 5 of her juniors from CC Int came to Flag to do their OEC / FEBC and I helped train all her replacements.

I put up with a lot of things, and became more numb than some and less numb than others. I feel I'm thawing, and my eyeballs and eyesight is improving.

I respect the persons who were Sea Org themselves, and I respect the academic wog critics most of all.

Best, Chuck Beatty

80 ARS POST #41
From: Chuckbeatty77 ([email protected])
Subject: The death of Yvonne Jentzsch (was To Chuck Beatty (was Leaves in the Sea Org))
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Date: 2004-11-20 17:07:35 PST

"L.T." wrote in message news:...
> "Chuck Beatty" wrote in message :
>
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Hey Chuck:
>
> I was on staff in New York when Yvonne Jentzsch died and I remember Raymond
> Baiardi saying:
>
> "She was full OT VII. She will be back in a couple of days. (LAUGH) She will
> be back in a couple of days".
>
> What a thing.
>
> Larry

Thanks Larry,

How weird can Scn get? Even weirder.

My minister at my wedding, in Feb 79, was a Sea Org member named Shelly Russell, tall long-haired blonde girl, she may be remembered mostly for being the Staff Course Supervisor at the Flag Land Base at that time.

Shelly in 79 or 80, had some trouble and became convinced that Yvonne had taken over Shelly's body, and that "she" (whoever she is now) was now Yvonne in Shelly's body, and this bizarre identity mixup, is the main reason poor Shelly was then routed out of the Sea Org.

I liked Shelly alot, and I liked Yvonne too.

The Scn movement thought platform, provides bizarre twists to people's conceptions about themselves and reality.

Who to blame? I think it spreads in all directions. If LRH hadn't gone on and on and on and on with his ideas, then all the people that got vacuumed up by the movement, would have been spared these moments we discuss. Of course we who got caught up in it, we didn't need to walk in front of the vacuum hose either.

I support anyone warning others to stay away from the hose.

Best, Chuck Beatty

81 ARS POST #42
From: Chuckbeatty77 ([email protected])
Subject: Re: The death of Yvonne Jentzsch (was To Chuck Beatty (was Leaves in the Sea Org))
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Date: 2004-11-23 14:43:42 PST

[email protected] (Keith Henson) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
> Sometimes you need to step back far enough to see that scientology is
> not unique. There are other cults that are even worse, though I think
> scientology is about as bad as a cult can get without doing like Aum
> or Heaven's Gate.
>
> Anyway, the constant in cults is *people*. Humans, like every other
> evolved animal are full of adaptions, the legacy of our stone age
> past.
>
> If you want to understand how cults have such a deep influence over
> some people, you really need to come up to speed on modern gene
> centered evolution theory.
>
> Just as an example, there is Hamilton's inclusive fitness criteria.
> Because relatives carry copies of your genes, it is rational from the
> viewpoint of your genes to sacrifice yourself if it will save more
> copies of your genes than are lost by you getting killed. (Assuming
> such a choice is forced on you.)
>
> Hamilton came to this conclusion by trying to understand bee behavior,
> but the same applies to humans, genes can be expected to build brains/
> minds that will take terrible risks to protect relatives. Since we
> evolved in tribes where there was a high level of relatedness between
> members, this trait often gets applied to groups around us that are
> not relatives.
>
> If you wonder where the trait that induces people to become suicide
> bombers comes from, this is it.
>
> Back to why people get sucked into cults and stay there.
>
> We are descended in large part from people who sought high status.
> Not that they were necessarily even aware of the concept, but men who
> were effective hunters or organizers or skilled in some other way were
> motivated by the *attention* they got from other tribe members.
>
> "Status" is more or less a lot of attention over time. You got this
> for successful hunting or killing other tribe members in wars or
> becoming a leader or . . . .
>
> And of course, high status in tribal days got you a wife (or two or
> three) and greatly improved your chances of being an ancestor. Your
> descendants tended to also have the trait of being rewarded by
> attention and working to get status.
>
> We even know a bit about how this works. Getting attention lights up
> the same areas of the brain that addictive drugs do (you can see it in
> functional MRI brain scans). The brain responds to attention by
> releasing natural versions of addictive drugs.
>
> What cults (*all* of them) do is provide intense attention. In
> scientology it is TRs and auditing, the moonies recruited with "love
> bombing." The attention isn't necessarily related to anything useful, > but brains evolved in stone age tribes can't always sort out the
> difference between meaningless attention and attention for doing
> something important to survival.
>
> Heck, some brains discover that addictive (rewarding) drugs are just
> as good to them as doing real stuff that gets them attention.
>
> In short, the answer to why people stay in cults, even in situations
> like the RPF is the same reason dopers keep shooting up, intense brain
> rewards. (And for the RPF, perhaps some Stockholm Syndrome as well.)
>
> I wrote a long article on this stuff two years ago but without a lot
> of background in modern evolutionary theory it's not an easy read.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Keith Henson

Dear Keith

Thanks very much for this info on genes, and the status/addiction aspect, and the other info on people's acceptance of groups (cult activity) as family/relatives.

That makes sense I follow this.

I think there are a few bestseller books out in the last couple of decades on this area too, at least on genes, and the relationship of genes with evolution and natural selection (which I do not fully track with, I have a lot more to read to get a grip on this all).

Thanks very much for this info.

Best, Chuck Beatty

82 ARS POST #43
From: Chuckbeatty77 ([email protected])
Subject: Re: RPF Newsletter: Kathy Didcoate
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Date: 2004-11-25 01:33:28 PST

[email protected] (Dave Touretzky) wrote in message news:...
> This next installment of the RPF Newsletter continues the sad story of
> the Didcoate family, this time focusing on Kathy (wife of Richard),
> and their son Jamie.
>
> This is how Scientology treats its own people: disgracefully.
>
> ================================================================
>
> Another sad story of the fate of a Sea Org family:
>
> Didcoate, Kathy -- from the UK. She came to the US many years ago
> with her husband Richard and her young son Jamie.

Thankyou Dave for this.

I knew Kathy on the Int RPF, for several years we worked together on various RPF duties, set production for the church movies and videos, and on farmwork.

In the late 90's before the Int Base had completed construction of the "Castle" building, the Int RPF did the sets construction for the church movies and videos, out at Happy Valley ranch.

We built a huge outdoor arched building, open walled, but it was great facility for movie scenery production (nicknamed sets). Peter Blecha and Ron Sommervilled were over the Gold Cine Sets production, and came and gave the projects to the RPF and we built the movie and video sets, and also we built the LA event elements, during the late 90's.

When the Castle was completed at the base, then the RPFers from the Int RPFers at Happy Valley were bused daily to the Castle and worked there from about 6:30am till 2:30 pm daily, then they were bused back to Happy Valley. This goes on about 6 days a week. But one day each week, usually Saturday, the Int RPFers all stay at the Happy Valley (now called officially Castille Canyon Ranch), and on Saturdays the whole Int RPF does farmwork or work handling various things at the Happy Valley ranch. All the Int RPFers stay and work at the Happy Valley ranch on Saturdays because on Saturdays at the Base, the whole Int Base at the Base do Saturday renos, and the RPF isn't supposed to cross paths with the staff. And normally when the RPF works at the Castle, due to where the Castle is located, the RPFers are pretty separate from the rest of the Int Base crew.

Kathy worked for years in the Int RPF, I think at least 2-3 years, before going down to do another 2-3 years in the PAC RPF.

Kathy I recall was from Cheppy Island, which is downstream from London on the River Thames. I used to nickname her "Kathy from Cheppy". She's a nice person, and so's Richard Didcoate, who I helped supervise his training, in some prior years I think all the way back at the Flag Land Base, when Richard was a Flap Representative from the UK, and he'd come to Flag (Clearwater) for training.

I sold Kathy my emeter for $200 when I was leaving the PAC RPF.

It is generally not the way lifetime religious workers are treated, to phase them out of their lifetime commitment, in the fashion that the Scn movement does. But they are at least helping people find a job and a place to stay, and they will continue to help you, should you need it, but I don't think once most get out the door, and get a job, that they have that much trouble getting on with things.

On the corner across the street from the Complex, is a place today called the Mailbox Cafe. It's where I picked up a copy of this monthly little 8 page magazine called Needs and Wants. Needs and Wants lists all sorts of places for people who are obvisouly Scientologists to find places to work and live, in the LA area. That's how I chose the place I then first moved to, and the job I first took, upon my leaving the PAC RPF.

Also PAC Security, I forget the guy's name, but there is one Security Guard who is the one who helps the RPFers by giving them a ride to wherever they are moving to locally in the LA area, and even this Security Guard wears civies when he takes you to the place you want to get a job at. He's a friendly Security Guard, sorry I can't remember his name.

Despite all the weirdnesses and insanity imbedded in the movement, the individuals doing their everyday jobs (omitting the craziness of the rules which everyone on the inside takes for granted) act pretty pleasantly with RPFers on their way out. That is what I experienced from Pac Security and the two OSA Int ladies, Kirsten Caetano and Joan Diskin, that dealt with me. Kirsten offered me help anytime I ever needed it in the future. She was sincere in this offer. Said she'd help me as a reference in the future whenever I needed one.

Although my views are skewed since I tended to get along well with most anyone I ever met in the Sea Org. But I didn't see any PAC Security acting confrontational with RPFers or persons leaving the Sea Org.

The only time I experienced some confrontational screaming (the worst screaming I ever experienced in my 7 years of RPF) was in 1997, 12 August, Sea Org day, which was the day two Int RPFers and I had a 2-3 hour shouting screaming match, they were challenging me against leaving the RPF, which I fully intended to do, but I lost. I buckled. Worst mistake I made, I added 5 years to my RPF experience (but in those 5 years I at least became an expert at cleaning, manual farmwork, carpentry skills, concrete skills, construction skills, plumbing, underground lawn irrigation systems and running large industrial dish washers).

Best, Chuck Beatty

84 ARS POST #45
From: Chuckbeatty77 ([email protected])
Subject: Re: RPF Newsletter: Kathy Didcoate
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Date: Nov 25, 6:05 pm

[email protected] (Dave Touretzky) wrote in message
...

> To Chuck or anyone else who worked on the movie sets: did you
> ever work on the set of the CoS film "TR 13"? I think it was
> supposed to be play on "Apollo 13", which came out a year or two
> before.

> I'm very curious about TR 13. Would love to see a plot summary.

> -- Dave Touretzky: "Two thumbs up, VGIs, and a broad F/N from Roger!"
> http://ScientologyWatch.org

Dave,

Sorry I don't know the films by number.

But there are two space-opera setting movies. TRs in Life is one film, and the other I only remember by how we RPFers nicknamed it, calling it the Chaplain film. (The Int RPF did all the sets for both these films, and they are damn good sets, in my opinion.)

I'm pretty sure TR 13 is this one, that's nicknamed the Chaplain film.

The film is set in the future on a patrol craft space vessel, sort of like a space opera Coast Guard craft. They pick up a stranded and amnesiac officer, Jason Begay (actor and Scientologist). The Captain of the patrol craft is Geoff Lewis, the Chaplain is Jack Armstorng, both pro actors. Geoff is a notable Hollywood mainly character actor and appears in several Scn movies (Confessional TRs movie, and this Chaplain movie, and the old Freedom Film of the early 1970s). Jack is also in a number of the Scn tech films.

The crew of the patrol craft are bummed out having to take on this stranded amnesiac officer, Jason B, because they are concerned Jason is contaminated with one of the common space diseases, which would cause them all to be quarantined when they return to earth. Jason's acting weird, almost threatening violence, and space diseases cause craziness, thus the crew are rightly concerned.

The wise Captain, Geoff Lewis, suggests that the Chaplain (Jack Armstrong) give Jason B an auditing session, to get to the bottom of what's making Jason act so tense and threatening.

The bulk of the movie then is the Auditing Session, between Jack Armstrong (the Chaplain) and Jason B.

Jason gets his rudiments flown (Upset, Problem, Withhold and Overt/Harm someone). That's all the auditing Jason gets, just auditing on the 4 rudiments.

Each rudiment peels away mental anguish and the final rudiment reveals the mystery of Jason's behaviour.

I won't ruin the film, not unless you want me to tell you the actual incident that unravels it all.

Jason comes out of his behaviour, he has a moment of remorse, grief then exultant burst of energy. He's so thankful he wants to use his automatically saved up back pay, which is considerable, to pay for some auditng for his longtime friend that he discovered through his auditing that he severely wronged. So he wants to get his friend some auditing in the end.

Jason's beaming and revived as a person. He's officially not infected with any disease, and the crew is jubilant.

The final shot is in the messhall, Jason and crew singing a raucous joyful space crew song, about going home to earth, called Homeward Bound.

The movie has a great impact, good story, great sets, and Jack Armstrong delivers impecable auditing to Jason, and Jack's TRs are model TRs, or are supposed to be.

A more balanced appraisal of this movie will have to be done by others, when they see it. Mine is obviously biased, as will be on all the tech films that I helped make the sets for. The Int RPFers are rightly proud of directly helping get these final LRH tech films actually done and produced, which from that viewpoint is understandable.

I think all the LRH films give a great look into LRH's character, and his priorities for auditors, and they give a glimpse at LRH's idea of what people will face way up the track (future lives, etc.), and people's opportunities for applying Scn tech in the long future (space opera future).

Anyways, if this Chaplain movie is not TR 13, then I may not either have recalled which is TR 13, or I may not have seen TR 13, and it came out after I left the Int RPF. But I think all the main films, called the Tech Films, are done, and this Chaplain film is probably TR 13.

Best, Chuck Beatty







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