Chuck Beatty
Internet Posts, June 2008


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Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: [email protected]
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 10:19:24 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Mon, Jun 2 2008 1:19 pm
Subject: Re: Hate Propaganda Alert (was: The following are from of the 'scriptures' of L. Ron Hubbard)

> And why should anyone believe you?

Because it is human tradition to hear the pent up thoughts that ex members finally get around to voicing, once the ex staffers are free to exercise their normal human rights to discuss their lives, and discuss what they did and saw in their lives.

> You are an anti-Scientology fanatic and a member of "Anonymous",
> which has no morals at all.

Your attack propaganda proves my point, you engage in exactly what is offensive about Scientology, whether you are acting on your own or in concert with some Scientology staffers or volunteers who are spreading the "dirty propaganda" on anonymous for Scientology's supposed protection.

You are doing this Hubbard policy:

"OFFICE OF SPECIAL AFFAIRS NETWORK ORDER 15, 18 February 1988 Confidential BLACK PROPAGANDA . Our propaganda is dirty.... We do this trick by survey and attack.... we become re-classified as attackers and the enemy as bad hats ... We just run propaganda campaigns....It reclassifies our attackers as evil people... Achieve for ourselves a dominance in classifying ourselves and others." "L. RON HUBBARD, official Church policy."

> Has it ever occorred to you that no one gives a shit what you
> think about the way the Church of Scientology runs itself?

Ah, it seems every time someone says what you said above, I get about a dozen emails and out of the blue phone calls telling me they do indeed appreciate me speaking out!

So no, you are in the minority of people who have at least the courage to speak to me publicly either on the phone or by email.

> That you should simply mind your own business and get a life?

Ex members have the most detailed inside understanding of the movement.

Ex members' views are thus excellent sources of the history, so that people investigating Scientology can connect the dots on the things official Scientology is hiding from the public.

For instance the disgraceful "ethics gradients" that Scientology leader David Miscavige perpetrated on top ranking staff.

Here's a photo of Jeff Hawkins, at the Portland anonymous protest, and Jeff has gone on radio detailing several of the physical beatings David Miscavige gave him.

http://www.dropthebomb.info/protest1/IMG_0134.jpg

Here's the link to the radio interview, and any legitimate media wishing to interview Jeff can contact him easily.

http://tinyurl.com/4nzpce

Jeff ain't lying, and other people will go on record confirming seeing David Miscavige beat up Jeff Hawkins!

Marc Headley seperately discusses the beating from David Miscavige that Marc received:

http://tinyurl.com/6mufhm

That's not right behavior for a superior to beat up on subordinates in ANY organization, let alone the "established cult" of Scientology.

> If I was a member of the Church of Scientology, that's what I'd
> tell you. You and all of your bigot buddies.

Your perogative. Media are awash with ex members speaking firsthand stories about disgraceful moments in their Scientology experiences.

The Scientology movement, official movement, needs to evolve into the more positive atmosphere that exists in the freezone, and ALL these Scientology practitioners need to NOT be messing with people who need real mental health treatment!

> Go run your own lives. And you certainly need to do some serious
> work on them if the best thing you can find to do is to
> spend them trying to harass a religious minority.

Well, I'd recommend two things:

1) International amnesty, as that would handle the family upsets!
2) Allow reform of official Scientology along the lines that the freezone has already taken, which would make Scientology less combative and at odds with society.

> No one forces anyone to join the Church of Scientology. Anyone
> can leave the Church of Scientology anytime they want to.

True, but the consequences of anyone openly discussing "body thetans" and the "Xenu holocaust" and anyone openly calling David Miscavige a bad leader, will have dramatic consequences.

Official Scientology is NOT free! It is authoritarian!

> If you don't like that lifestyle, then don't be a part of it.

Agreed.

> You are just a typical American facist who thinks he has a
> right to tell everyone in the world how to live.

You have intentionally or inadvertently just engaged in the L. Ron Hubbard tactics listed in OSA Network Order 15 again, see the quote above about calling me the name that is agreed upon known bad, just to re-classify me.

When in fact, a comparison of official Scientology to the freezone Scientology shows official Scientology to be more "fascistic" by FAR compared to the freezone Scientology.

So, your statement above is OSA Network Order 15 tactics, Hubbard's tactics, straight and simple.

"...our propaganda is dirty..." L. Ron Hubbard

"... We just run propaganda campaigns...." L. Ron Hubbard

"...It reclassifies our attackers as evil people..." L. Ron Hubbard

"...Achieve for ourselves a dominance in classifying ourselves and others." L. Ron Hubard

> I donate a LOT of money to the Church of Scientology.

> Not because I particularly like it, but because of assholes
> like you. I do it to counteract your influences.

Great. In time, they will reform. If somehow the official movement can take on the tone of tolerance and normalcy that the freezone Scientology movement has already taken, well, I think that that is inevitable longer range no matter what, no matter what back and forth discussion goes on.

I've firsthand observed the movement slowly reforming anyways.

The next two big cracks of reform that official Scientology will be relating to the "Body thetans" and "Xenu holocaust" free discussion by its members, and then hopefully sooner than later, a big International Amnesty.

Those two things would cause just PERMANENT good PR for Scientology!

If I ran the movement, that's what I'd do!

Scientology is loaded with good people, stuck rigidly with a system that penalizes them for being normal citizens and speaking frankly and honestly about their "confidential" theology.

I agree they are small time, and getting smaller.

> If you don't like it, fuck yourself, you stinking bigot.

Why the foul language? It is not good to have sympathizers of Scientology acting so disgracefully.

> And you can take this to the bank: I don't believe anything
> you say about the Church of Scientology.

> Tom

Your perogative. At least you are free to speak so freely.

Inside the movement, had David Miscavige slapped you to the floor, you wouldn't be able to say harsh words to him! You'd be history, and shown the door.

In Scientology, the members are not allowed to harshly publicly criticize their founder (Hubbbard) or the principle figures (like Miscavige, their leader).

The Hubbard rules keep internal dissent down.

> --
> The Truth will set you free:http://www.sethcenter.com

Chuck Beatty
Ex-Sea Org (lifetime staffer, 1975-2003)
Flag Dec 1975-Jun 1983 (TTC, Sup, Word Clearer, D of T, etc.)
Int Base 1983-1984 (Routing Forms Pjt)
Snr HCO Int in the FB in LA 1984-87 Re-Training (Int and LA) 87-88
Int Training Org, LA 88 (Sec Checker Sup)
LRH Tech Research and Comps, CMO Int, (Sept 88-Feb 89)
Int R PF (Feb-Mar 89)
PAC RPF (Mar-May 89)
Int Training Org (May-Sept 89) (Admin Sup)
INCOMM Sep 89-Sept 90 (Routing Forms Pjt)
INCOMM Sept 90-May92 (Computer Room LA & Int)
ASI May 92-Dec95 (Computer Room, In-Training Esto)
Decks Int (Dec 95-Jun 96)
Int RPF (Jun 96-Nov 2000)
PAC RPF (Nov 2000-Mar2003)
Routed out March 29, 2003.
Join XSO and network to old Sea Org friends:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/XSO/
Chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckbeatty77/
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I live in Pittsburgh, anyone feel free to call
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Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com"
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 07:30:15 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Wed, Jun 18 2008 10:30 am
Subject: Re: Monica Pignotti tells us her plan

> Take a poll here. Start a post entitled "Anyone here give a shit what
> Pignotti says?"

I do.

I hope Monica writes more chapter like discussions, and links them from time to time here on ARS.

I like ARS because it is so free.

Anyone can post here, I like ARS the best of all forums.

I could care less who hates whom for whatever valid reasons.

Hubbard's operation Scientology is the subject.

Anyone with relevant history is okay by me!

And I hope other people are inspired to delve into the Hubbard pile of writings, someday, to really lay it all to rest.

The Hubbard "con" is an extensive pile of stuff.

I think it will take sort of a mixture of an outside writer/author and a Danny Sherman (insider), and someone who's worked a decade or so in OSA going back to the GO days, to really do a whole new expose of the mess of Hubbard's writings.

Jeff Hawkins' blog is excellent.

We need some former OSA/GO wordsmith type quality vet coming out and touching on the whole sorry Hubbard insider doctrinal mess of writings, to come out and reinvigorate the whole Hubbard fascade.

I contest still, NO ONE, has gone through the OEC volumes, inlcuding the management series, and also who's read the behind the scenes "orders" ("advices") of Hubbard's last years, the ASI advices, the "Int" base advices, and miscellaneous advices, there ARE a few potential defectors in the midst of the movement, the people working with Danny Sherman, the OSA people, possibly Farney.

One of Monica's contemporaries from the Apollo days, Roger Strauss, got out, went back to college in sociology, and wrote.

I think MORE discourse along the lines of outside world already established saner ideas, and back comparing to Hubbard's trove of writings, WILL finally un-whump the undereducated people who are lured into Scientology (I admit to being one of dupes who turned into a dupe trainer).

More good writing laying out Scientology/Hubbard's flaws, the core faults, that are unarguable, and those thoughts spread until they are common knowledge, will lay Scientology to rest.

It's a battle of ideas.

I think the battle of personalities is inevitable human nature, while the battle of ideas carries on.

I wish Monica were more a Roger Strauss though, and she just linked her papers and wrote some books, and linked her writings here.

I appreciate anyone's discussion of the Hubbard mess.

Chuck

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com"
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 15:03:39 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Mon, Jun 30 2008 6:03 pm
Subject: Re: Jeff Hawkins' book in progress

On Jun 30, 3:07 pm, Fishdaddy wrote:

> On Jun 30, 11:59 am, Out_Of_The_Dark
> wrote:

> > On Jun 30, 2:49 pm, Fishdaddy wrote:

> > > On Jun 29, 1:56 pm, Tom N wrote:

> > > > On 2008-06-29, in <[email protected]>

> > > > Android Cat wrote:
> > > > > Very powerful writing and he's up to chapter 10 now.

> > > > >http://counterfeitdreams.blogspot.com/2008/04/chapter-one-going
> > > > > -home.html

> > > > Yes. "Powerful writing". Words. The specialty of 'Anonymous' and
> > > > their allies.

> > > > And most of those words are lies.

> > > > He claims that life was incredibly miserable where he was and
> > > > that David Miscavige (the lead of the Church of Scientology)
> > > > beat him.

> > > > Why hasn't he filed criminal charges or a civil law suit?

> > > > Because others won't come forward and back up his story, that's
> > > > why. Even though people leave the Church of Scientology all the
> > > > time, like he did.

> > > > In-other-words, he's lying.

> > > > He's affililated with 'Anonymous' and its allies, all rabid
> > > > anti-Scientology fanatics, and he isn't going to make any
> > > > brownie points with that crowd unless he tears the Church
> > > > of Scientology to shreds with his word.

> > > > They would not tolerate anything else.

> > > > His title, "Counterfeit Dreams" refers to the book, not
> > > > to his experiences in the Church of Scientology.

> > > > It is a Freudian Slip.

> > > > He can't substantiate anything he says.

> > > > It's just more vicious gossip from a hate-mongering bigot.

> > > > One who hopes to cash in on hatred and bigotry, I'd
> > > > guess.

> > > > Tom Newton

> > > > --
> > > > The Truth will set you free:http://www.sethcenter.com

> > > Hey, "Tom Newton"

> > > Wait a minute! I'm supposed to be the SP here! I'm supposed to be the
> > > one using generalities, not you! Let's get out hats straight here. I'm
> > > the SP, you're the Scientologist.

> > > My blog, my radio interviews, my posts on OCMB, all give exact time,
> > > place, form and event. They are done using my real name, not hiding
> > > behind a phony pseudonym, like, say, "Tom Newton." I give my exact
> > > involvement with Scientology, where I worked, who I worked with.

> > > Your response: "he's a liar and a hate-mongering bigot." In other
> > > words, an ad hominem attack and a passel of generalities. In other
> > > other words, a standard OSA response.

> > > Let's get down to a few specifics here. You know my real name. What's
> > > yours?

> > > You know where I've worked. At the Int Base. For 15 years. What's your
> > > history? Have you ever been to the Int Base? Have you ever worked
> > > there? Have you ever met David Miscavige? Have you ever worked for
> > > him? Have you ever attended a meeting with him?

> > > I'd be more impressed with you if you used a real name, like, say,
> > > Gloria Idda. Not saying that is your real name, but just to give an
> > > example of a real name.

> > > And, just for the record, the name "Counterfeit Dreams" refers to my
> > > experience in Scientology. Without question. And I dealt with those
> > > counterfeiters for 35 years, people like you.

> > > You want to "discredit" me? Good, stand up, give your real name, your
> > > actual staff experience, if any, and start giving some specifics of
> > > things I've posted that you think are lies based on your personal
> > > observation.

> > > Come on, I'm the SP here. Dishing out generalities is supposed to be
> > > my job, not yours.

> > > Jeff-

> > He does this to anyone of merit here, Jeff. His real name is Alan
> > Conners and he's a well known usenet kook most likely hired to 'dead
> > agent' and distract readers. he;s turned down various offers to meet
> > up with critics and get the facts but that is just not a part of his
> > agenda. As a consequence, most here just ignore him

> > Mary McConnell

> Thanks Mary. Good to know he actually has a real name. And I'll take
> your advice and ignore. I don't usually post on ARS but I couldn't
> resist that one!

> Jeff

Hey Jeff,

I dared Tom Newton (shore story is he's a "neighbor of a Scientologist and they're terrific people" (which I don't doubt the Scientologists are good people) and Tom's a proponent of out of the body travel), to phone me.

I wanted to ask him about his shore story, since I think he's just all made up conveniently and for plausible deniability purposes, the Guardian's Office/OSA (Hubbard ordered) intelligence tactic of using "cutouts" people who can be denied to be directly under orders from OSA.

My thoughts are there's a crew of skilled persons with conveniently plausible "nutjob" valences who are encouraged to keep ARS all weird and unattractive to prevent really helpful ex members like you from discoursing here.

I come here because ARS is the freest site in my opinion with some of the smartest minds.

Welcome Jeff!

I hope people ask you some questions here?

I challenged Tom to even talk with you.

I imagine since he is being directed by OSA that if anyone major like you, since you just showing now for the first time, my guess he will have to get a "C/S" on you, and get okay to use this or that approach with you.

We'll see how free he is in interchanges with you.

I found at first, that there was a 1-2 day delay on the interchanges between me and one of these plausibly nutty anti-critic identities here on ARS.

My thoughts are the OSA people C/S the crew of nutjob posters to some degree.

We need a defector like Gloria Idda or someone from OSA to detail exactly the daily/weekly ARS battleplan.

Best, Chuck







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