> Their daughter Jessica apparently married
> I posted a picture that appeared in the NY Daily News on ABS as well.
> ~ tikk
I talked to a former Int Base staffer who said this level of handling means several things. Jessica is for sure being run by RTC, namely likely Hara O'Hare, Hansueli Stahli, Shelly Miscavige and DM.
Top celebs get super kid gloves and intense handlings, and more attention than RTC puts on normal day to day operations.
There is a clique of top CC Int Sea Org staff, a few ASI (Author Services Inc.) staff, and the RTC staff above, and probably others now, who oversee Celeb contacts. It is a mini unofficial network of the above that do the gobetween handlings with the Scientology celebs. It is all personal.
Jessica, I recall a long incident with her when she was the Staff Auditor CLO WUS, the lead auditor in the Cont Training Org, CLO WUS, and she came and gave the 30-40 minute briefing to us PAC RPFers one day when Jill Burkhart, the AOLA Nots auditor then returned to the PAC RPF, since Jill's cancer had returned, and the cancer took Jill's life. Jessica, as the CTO (Cont Training Org lead auditor, this was 2001) helped Jill in Jill's final moments in the hospital.
Jessica came to tell us of the final weeks and hours of Jill's life, in a Scientology positive way. People know somewhat about the efforts Scientologists do with their own who are "OTs" and believe they will be picking up a new body after their deaths.
Jessica told us about Jill's efforts, that Jill found a Scientology OT couple, for her future body, the couple were OTs and even recognized and accepted Jill's presence, and then Jessica told us RPFers the story of Jill finally letting go of her body, dying, and that Jill was happily then hooked up at the home of the OTs, waiting for the mom, who was still months from delivering, to have the baby.
As told by Jessica, in my opinion, a warm young woman, not the bitch she looks in the photo in this post, Jessica was very sensitive and thoughtful of Jill's final weeks and days.
The briefing Jessica gave was sort of an impromptu variation of the now tradition of issuing the Personnel Order summary accomplishments of a deceased Sea Org member, which people have now seen for decades written when a Sea Org member dies. A lot of RPFers of course cried, but were happy Jill got hooked up with a new body of a pair of OT Scientology parents, so the story was told.
Jessica married Andre Rodriguez, Senior C/S WUS (who is posted in CMO PAC) in 2001 or 2002. [Update: from another source I found they were likely married in 2003.]
Per the former Int Base staffer, for Jessica to be doing what she is doing with Katie Holmes right now, Jessica is unqeustionably being run from the Int Base, by the persons I mentioned above.
Best, Chuck Beatty
The recent question for the number of OSA staff, was bombbarded with OSA Ops and wacko hits. It sure got the OSA associated computer internet subtrefuge legions crawling all over one another.
The answer to the rough number of OSA and DSA staff worldwide is roughly 200-300.
This is rough, ballpark. It is NOT thousands, it is NOT even 500.
That is the ballpark info, from the best of my 27 years as a lifetime staffer in the Scientology movement, my 2nd wife was OSA Int staff, and I generally knew the OSA Int numbers from just yearly contact, inter-HGB competition, bus seats taken, berthing rooms taken up, and the OSA Int office spaces, as an RPF in 1989, I got to walk through all the OSA Int spaces as part of the final preps for the HGB building renos.
Premier future defectors from the official Scientology movement I think should include:
Kurt Weiland (my hope is he defects, he has endless material to disclose and would be great at handling media, were he to defect and talk freely of what he considers odd about the Scientology movement, he's not a heavy antago personality, and would be an upbeat goldmine of info defector!)
Best, Chuck Beatty
Posted on Clambake Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 3:52 am:
I was told by someone working with someone working with someone, who wants to remain very under the radar, that long range, the US govt (Justice, FBI), are not likely to do a frontal assault on ANY religious group, because of the public bad recoil for the Waco tragedy so smeared the US Govt involvment with any direct major attacks on religious movements.
Scientology is NOT as wierd and immediately life threatening as armagedon inspired religious movements.
Scientology is kooky, but it is not in a self-immolation mode, and I don't think it ever will be.
Lisa McPherson and the Buffalo tragedy, the son murdering his Buffalo org staff mom, are really sad moments and examples of policies Scientology must change to not allow to happen in the future.
But Scientology is just NOT of the magnitude of horribleness of other more extreme religious movements, at this time, in my opinion.
The point is, that to bring down the Scientology movement, I think, is through simply freedom of speech, like in the former USSR.
Hubbard put the heart of the movement on American soil. I think US constitutional guarantees of freedom of speech, will be the continuing main solvent that will clean up the faults in the movement.
Getting the word inside, I started reading the old Freedom Magazines, in the 1980s. In the late 80s and early 90s the Freedom Magazines incorrectly printed TOO MUCH about the anti-Scientology critics, and the exaggerated assaults on the critics started turning me, since I knew at least many critics as acquaintances, and knew them NOT to be as bad as the Freedom Mag painted them.
The Scientology public and new people, are free to see media.
More and more media, leak the variety of valid wrongnesses with Scientology into their movement, it leaks in, all the time.
Media, TV, print, magazines, repeating the important offensive faults in Scientology back into the movement, via press, movies, entertainment, any channel that will reach the Scientology members and the elite more isolated Sea Org members, eventually wears on their minds.
It wore on my mind. When normal life, and the enjoyments and prospect of a more enjoyable life OUTSIDE of the Scientology cacoon looked BETTER to me, than staying inside the Sea Org cacoon, I started wanting MORE and MORE to get out. It took me years, to finally make it out, but the world outside of the Sea Org, is so much freer, it takes time to even appreciate how much freedom to express oneself, how good that is.
Firsthand stories from people who exit, who hook up to radio talk shows, doing whatever communication one can, to relay the odd offensive aspects of the Scientology movement, the word of mouth, is what will leak back into the Scientology movement ranks, and continue planting more seeds of the freedom that let people choose to move out of the movement.
Also, that the official movement seems NOT to be harrassing people who do speak out, that is so important. It reflects actually good on them, and gives critics less to criticize, but it also allows more to come out, communicate whatever they wish about what disagreeable experiences they had in the Scientology movement, and this will force them to explore some major changes in their overall operation, and drop the most disagreeable of L. Ron Hubbard's mainline policies which recoil so badly on them.
Mainline religions are currently more tolerant of ex members than official Scientology, and official Scientology needs to absorb more the lessons that the mainline religions finally adopted. No more things like shunning apostates, and not engaging in disagreeable attacks on people's reputations, no smearing campaigns, etc. In otherwords the Religious Freedom Watch site needs to disapear, and cease the petty smearing, etc.
They need to do some study how to downsize, and drop the offensive family splitting against family deemed "enemies" of the church. NO modern major religion does this. This is wholly out of step with modern major religous practise, and causes the most complaints and the most emotional upset of those people who have been deemed "enemies of the church".
They need to get their donations into the 10% tithe system, and reorganize around how they can still deliver their spiritual "bridge to total freedom" within a new economic framework allowing people of any economic level (poor to wealthy) equal access to spiritual advancement, and drop Hubbard's money orientation, no matter how extensively justified by Hubbard. This needs to be programed and executed. They could pilot it in 3rd world countries new to Scientology, is what I'd do if I were inside and had to do a whole movement makeover.
Marie Ann Woodward, recent defectee from "middle management" and an expert for over a decade on the weekly statistics gathering activities of the official managment arm of the official church of Scientology, says that only the Celebrity Centre International is the only remaining "Saint Hill" sized church (Saint Hill size churches are the individual church model to achieve, and over 40 churches reached "Saint Hill" size, but all have decreased in size, only Celebrity Center International in Hollywood, the celebrity hub, remains at "Saint Hill" size).
Outer lying churches around the world are all decreasing for the past 5-10 years.
More defectors are needed.
My list of who I would love to see defect are:
Kurt Weiland (OSA Int)
Their wealth of insider information, would give an unprecedented history and look at the inner recent workings of the movement.
Seriously, the movement is floundering, only the celebrity center arm of the church is apparantly up to the production levels Hubbard set as the goal of model churches. There were some 50 churchs almost, who reached the "Saint Hill" size goals, but only the Celebrity Center in Hollywood is the only church that has maintained its production levels set by Hubbard of what a model church should attain and maintain. All the other 40 plus churchs of the "old Saint Hill" size, have floundered, some drastically lower again.
The church "managers" simply have to go outside of Hubbard's policy restrictions, and deal with the larger real recoiling problems Hubbard stuck them with.
1) Switch from fixed donations to tithing, make that switch for real!
Right now I think they have the luxury of lack of really serious attacks against them (no govt no psych assaults on them) so they could make some major further changes. In the US this is the case.
I think they are slowly changing by default, because human nature is inherently opposed to carrying out year after year after year the offensive tactics they are still carrying out, and long time staffers defect, rather than continue the insane policies Hubbard wrongly insisted are the movement's saving tactics!
People don't like to do that stuff all the time, and they tire of doing the offensive stuff. The staff (OSA's hat) have to build up the "enemies" and rally the inside staff to go charging after the "enemies", which after doing this for a few decades, inside staff (and the parishioners) see these "enemies" are just normal human beings with their normal frailties. The "enemies" are not the monsters Hubbard insisted they are.
The Religious Freedom Watch site has to go. It reflects horribly on the official movement's lack of judgement, and just dirties up the whole atmosphere around the movement.
(I think their lack of attacks on people who are defecting in the last 5 years, are a good sign they might be in progress doing this by default or overwork or a combination of overwork and neglect, the result of which is they are NOT keeping up with Hubbard's harsher old time tactics of chasing after all new critics, etc., which is good for them, and those of us who are coming out and speaking up.)
I think they will settle into a less offensive and conflicting relationship with society, slowly, as they cease their discreditable tactics based on the Hubbard policies they seem to be applying less and less.
But they still have decades to go. I hope they speed it up.
Best, Chuck Beatty, Ex-Sea Org, 75-03
>Ted Mayett wrote:
While on the PAC RPF in 2001-2002, we got encouraged to gear up mentally for graduating the RPF and replacing staff in the PAC area, so they could in turn move up and man the Superpower building positions that would need to be filled. There is/was a continuing personnel problem for training up the staff to man the building. Not sure where that program is at, but anyone with recent history at the FSO might have something to say on the future staff for the tech positions in the Superpower building, and numbers and designations (like smocks being worn, the "TTC meetings" of those people) etc. Getting a line on the trainees training up, and surely they are training up at the FSO to be minimally FSO standardness.
> What is it now, something like 20 orgs that
I figured this was the "quick fix" bright idea of killing two birds with one stone, 1) getting the money sitting around in foreign accounts spent back on real estate, a good long range investment and 2) applying LRH's old "bright idea" about the HCO Policy Letter "Improve Our Image", where LRH wildly claims how the org income can be increased by 500%, which of course DM then had to go through the learning curve of realizing this LRH bright idea was another one of LRH's shoot from the hip wild claims, not entirely supported by facts (which in turn LRH failed to admit to, and in turn these types of major LRH dictums then send the faithful managers scrambling to shoot innocent staff to place the blame for the lack of income and expansion back onto faulty staff execution which "sabotaged" LRH's wild-eyed policies).
Also, the richer public for decades have complained, and the baser celebs and rich public, the ones who have been footing the bills for Scientology for decades, have ever so subtly over the decades complained enough, so that top management has finally fixed up the churches.
Fixing up the churches also reflects that the churches are growing, another part of the image building. Nothing wrong with that, but the rooms are unquestionably not full. (See more on this below.)
Can't argue with that, the locals like clean well kept buildings, and it is not a bad thing. Let's see what happens 50 years from now, if the next generation of Scientology top management keeps up their churchs in 50 years when they start crumbling, etc.
Outside the Scientology world bubble, which in my opinion cannot but follow suit with the large worldwide trends with religions, locally here in Pittsburgh I see dozens and dozens of run down large beautiful churches, here in Pittsburgh, and a few have been converted to non- religious use, due to long range demographic trends of ever lower church attendence. I don't see the strength of the Scientology philosophy/religion countering and "growing" in the face of the larger western world religious trend, honestly. It is not just Scientology's philosophical/religious kookiness that detracts from the Scientology movement expansion. Other major civilization cultural factors and the strength of people's adherance to the existing traditional religions also majorly counters Scientology expansion also.
As a Sea Org member, I often wondered realistically that devout Catholics, Protestants, Christian fundamentalists, Jewish, all these people WERE NOT ever going to convert to Scientology, and thus this alone would present a completely insurmountable block to attaining world clearing. The demanding Scientology church scheduling, the fact that the percentage of "dual" religious participants (meaning the Scientology claim that one could retain their faith in let's say Catholicism, and still be an active Scientologist), just is NOT proven in reality. People who are devout in their prior religions, do NOT retain their devout beliefs in their original religion, but they absolutely 100% shed their prior faiths, to advance fully to the highest levels of the Scientology spiritual bridge.
Thus realistically, this is another one of the cracks in the whole Scientology bubble world, where an LRH claim of dual religious membership does NOT work out. These LRH words are just not happening.
> There is a chance that all of this TC stuff has
I would love to hear a recent Int Base staffer brief us on this. I am sure you are spot on to some degree in your guess here.
> Hicksville org moved to a larger location.
No, I agree their expansion could happen. But it is not.
Here is credible raw info.
Ann Marie Woodward, posting on Clambake, is about the best case scenario recent defector. She was intimately connected with the middle management (HGB -Hollywood Guarantee Building, Hollywood, where about 1100 staff are in this 12 story building, and all the statistics from the churches around the world come into this building weekly for tabulation and the Scientology movement official management overseeing activities), and Ann Marie can give you the scoop. She was asked a number of questions, on Clambake and you should see her answers. She's credible, I've known her for almost 20 years, and the stats in the churches are NOT what they were. See her posts!
> 1950 people like us here made Dianetics
wow. I think the recent observations of media and scholarly writers about where we stand culturally as western civilization, etc., understanding this current world, effects greatly why people seek involvement in the Scientology movement activity. Others elsewhere have commented on this, and it leads to all sorts of serious discussions.
LRH was also betting on the famous western historion Arnold Toynbee's assertion that the only thing that Toynbee saw to save western civ avoiding the downslide that was thought to be the case in the late 1950's, was a renewed resurgance of religious activity. Toynbee pegged western civ on a downslide, with religion as the only thing to save it.
> Will History look back to June of 2005, and
No. That is how internally Scientology top managers would like to see it, and maybe that is the message and view imbued by DM and the top Scientology management execs in their speeches at the church events, but that is NOT the wider world's view, as the wider world has so many other cultural factors entering their broader worldviews, that actually this shows a wide lack on the part of the Scientology top management to actually assume the "viewpoint" (per the LRH issue, the marketing series policy letter called "Viewpoint"). DM et al at the top of the movement, are failing to see and truly grasp the modern western world's viewpoint, and the church's marketing strategy's (probably ever since Ronnie, DM's brother fell from grace, Ronnie in my opinion at least was better in tune with the world and more uptone than David Miscavige his brother), so in my opinion, not only is DM wrong about current world opinion, DM's brother ejected, who probably was at least a bit better at it, so again, another strike against the movement. Bad marketing, in recent years, out of tune.
Ann Marie Woodward said the only Saint Hill sized org is CC Int. The celebs are the ones carrying the load, and doing the mainline dissemination for them.
We haven't seen any other marketing large scale campaigns, in 5 years.
We could use an Int Base marketing area defector to tell us what's gone wrong in their marketing endeavors.
>Well we don't know this, not today, not yet.
It already is a pretty striking building, so that part I agree with.
> The orgs will continue to grow, to look
Not growing, but I agree great new image with their buildings.
Their growth in church activities is not happening for cultural reasons they are unable to surmount with their currently failed Marketing Tech LRH left them, which it is doubtful it is a guaranteed working tech with 100% results, since the Marketing tech (if one reads the Marketing Series in the OEC Volumes), is mainly borrowed from Ogilby and Mather's "Positioning..." tech, which is fine enough, but it takes correct use, and for certain reasons isn't always a winner.
But in any case they aren't fully correctly applying the marketing tech he did leave them. Stats don't show the expansion, not per Ann Marie's firsthand credible data.
But should they expand, hey, I won't deny it.
I hoped, for the sake of their staff who are "slaving away" that they would get a respite from the grind, their 14 hour days, 7 days a week, for the Sea Org members. I personally have a soft spot for the staff in the Sea Org for their schedules, etc.
We need more recent Sea Org defectors, and Int Base defectors, and OSA Int defectors, to tell us what is going on.
>Remember, even prices are dropping
I am slow. I think you are being sarcastic here. Are their prices actually going down? You joking?
They need to phase out priced/donations and switch to tithe (10%), and reorganize their staffs to service ALL economic strata, rich to low income, and let everyone advance up their "bridge to total freedom". I'd pilot this in a 3rd world startup country, and perfect it, then in 5-10-20 years switch over the rest of countries to this same system.
>The tech is being altered, Source
Yep, very likely this conversation will go on as long as they carry on.
They need some bright spark people inside their management ranks to come up with some ideas, and not be beaten down with the string of losses that they have accumulated (like any business, any organization).
I can't understand why they let Ronnie go. He was a bright guy. They can't afford to lose their bright spark people. Bad mistake.
Any former Int Base staffer with any relevant info on the movement leaders, strategies, etc., please contact me, and you can give me data in such a way that I won't identify you, if you fear being retaliated against, which I haven't been yet reataliated against in the almost 1 year that I have been posting details of what I observed in my 27 year life as a Sea Org member.
Best, Chuck Beatty
From: "" >Susan wrote:
Yes, sorry, my old soppy sympathies for the Sea
Org slide me back into proposing all sorts of
weird Monday morning quarterback-like suggestions
for fixing the Sea Org and Scientology like some
still drunk sailor.
What a weird whatever. Sorry.
Hmm. I've still a ways to go, to reach full
realization how really unsupportable the whole
L. Ron Hubbard's Scientology movement is.
I'm almost there.
I appreciate the tip.
Yes, sorry, my old soppy sympathies for the Sea Org slide me back into proposing all sorts of weird Monday morning quarterback-like suggestions for fixing the Sea Org and Scientology like some still drunk sailor.
What a weird whatever. Sorry.
Hmm. I've still a ways to go, to reach full realization how really unsupportable the whole L. Ron Hubbard's Scientology movement is.
I'm almost there.
I appreciate the tip.
Go ahead an post it Chuck. Everyone in the film crew knew there was a crappy black and white surveillance like camera that had a line into the RTC office with sound, well at least the crew that were around when it got put in in 1988. We'd get calls sometimes like "hey, why are the film crew just slacking off?" What's going on? And Messengers from RTC would show up or Shelly trying to find out what was up based on what they saw on the video monitor. Sometimes it was because there was a set wall in front of the camera of something stupid and so the activity was blocked. The camera that went to the RTC office might have eventually been changed to the surveillance camera that was mounted way high up in the catwalk with a view of the whole studio and not just from the one on top of the video cart.
[former Int Base staffer]
There were plans as early as 1995 to be able to broadcast live from both the smaller cine studio and the larger Cine castle. The Castle was supposed to be wired for it and then the smaller Cine Studio was maybe going to become just a "TV studio"; perhaps with hooks up to RTC where DM could watch what was going on from his office.
Oh... did you know that in DM's office was a video monitor where he could view the film crew working through a video line that was hooked into the surveillance camera on top of the video cart in the film studio? That was there since 1988 onwards. I got calls into my office a lot of from Shelly asking questions and demanding to talk to the Shoot Crew chf or some other exec on the set.
Never heard anything about TC [Tom Cruise] being involved in any TV broadcast plans. TC wasn't as active when I left....
[former Int Base staffer]
Any former Int Base staffers with info they'd like to get posted anonymously, feel free to contact me.
412-260-1170 (call after 9pm New York City time;
after 6pm LA time; after 7pm Denver time)
(Call anytime if important!)
From: "" >Quaoar wrote:
Correction, even less highly spiritually attained OT 3's and
OT 5's have been using the special 5 dollar a bottle super
duper drinking water, the blue hard plastic spiffy looking
laundry cleaning balls about the size of a baseball, AND the
Superfood, I use, and I wasn't even a Clear.
At the Scientology rooming house about 3 hundred yards
from the big blue "complex" building in Hollywood, we had
ALL of the above, and many lower level Scientologists
were successfully benefiting from these items!
Not to mention the new-age cleaning clothes, and
regular Chiropractor visits.
Once when I went to the old Shaw Health clinic
when I was on staff at INCOMM around 1990, I got a
free OT 3 X-ray sans the X-ray machine, by Dr.
Felix Patel, one Sunday, to confirm my dislocated
finger was re-located. Sadly, my fault, I didn't
come back Monday when the x-ray technician was on
duty to get a real X-ray, and Dr. Patel's OT x-ray
(and he closed his eyes, and squinched up his face in
intense silence as he "viewed" my finger). Too
bad all around because my finger was still
"dislocated", though he said it seemed to be re-
located. Lucky I am a happy-go-lucky-don't-cry-over-
all-my-wasted-life, 27 years worth. Today my
pinky on my right hand has a bit of a retarded
look to it. A later x-ray, two weeks later after
Dr. Patel's OT x-ray, showed my finger was
dislocated still. Two weeks is too late to
get back such a finger dislocation back in place.
Then Shaw clinic's Dr. Price tried roping
my finger and giving a man-sized yo-heave,
but again two weeks out of location, and it is
time for surgury. Dr. Price at least helped
give my finger a nice mangled look and then I
went to LA County Hosp, and got to go into the
emergency room waiting line (only 35 minutes
compared to the multi-hour regular waiting line)
and I got the free service us Sea Org members
qualify for, and a month later, got surgery
with the result now my pinky's dislocated
joint won't ever bend again.
Oh well! I deserved it, sort of. It is only
through the most dedicated participation in
Scientology that I could have avoided my own
non-standardness, resulting in my neat looking
On the laundry plastic hard cleaning balls the
size of baseballs, after I got off lifetime
staff, and lived for a year in a Scientology
rooming house, our OT 5 house owner was on
top of all the latest laundry balls, special
water, vitamins, but he didn't like the taste
You gotta admit the dedicated Scientologists
know how to laugh in blissful ignorance about
all their failed quirky sideline products.
I most loved the "Standard" vitamin line and
the famous "Standard" handcream.
That was an AVC screwup to end all screwups.
Why not "Ron's Favorites"? Sheesh. The
Sea Org members up the food chain at Int used
to shake their heads at all the cashing in of
"Survival" insurance, with the identical
typescript as the original Survival Rundown
spiritual counseling service once delivered
by the official church, now thankfully re-named.
On the other hand, the elite who hung around
LRH unofficially did all the things he did,
Kool cigarettes were a hit for while, New
Balance running shoes had their day, the
gun fads, anything LRH remarked on favorably
you can bet those products and minor details
became part of the one-up-man-ship game
played by LRH's closest confederates. Part
of being on-source was to do the things
Source (LRH) did! No perfume, no harmful
TV rays, etc., etc.
There is a divide mentally even within the
whole movement, the upper Sea Org (lifetime
staffers in the top executive/administrative
positions) get pissed when they see Scientology
parishioners getting overly ambitious at using
Scientology related communication symbols and
words ("Standard", "Survival", "Theta").
Rightly or wrongly so. It is a whole other
nuanced perculiarity to the Scientology movement,
just like other religions suffer the same sort of
cashing in activities.
X-files and UFO shows were a big hit on the
communal TV at the Scientology rooming house
I used to live in.
Best, Chuck Beatty
Correction, even less highly spiritually attained OT 3's and OT 5's have been using the special 5 dollar a bottle super duper drinking water, the blue hard plastic spiffy looking laundry cleaning balls about the size of a baseball, AND the Superfood, I use, and I wasn't even a Clear.
At the Scientology rooming house about 3 hundred yards from the big blue "complex" building in Hollywood, we had ALL of the above, and many lower level Scientologists were successfully benefiting from these items!
Not to mention the new-age cleaning clothes, and regular Chiropractor visits.
Once when I went to the old Shaw Health clinic when I was on staff at INCOMM around 1990, I got a free OT 3 X-ray sans the X-ray machine, by Dr. Felix Patel, one Sunday, to confirm my dislocated finger was re-located. Sadly, my fault, I didn't come back Monday when the x-ray technician was on duty to get a real X-ray, and Dr. Patel's OT x-ray (and he closed his eyes, and squinched up his face in intense silence as he "viewed" my finger). Too bad all around because my finger was still "dislocated", though he said it seemed to be re- located. Lucky I am a happy-go-lucky-don't-cry-over- all-my-wasted-life, 27 years worth. Today my pinky on my right hand has a bit of a retarded look to it. A later x-ray, two weeks later after Dr. Patel's OT x-ray, showed my finger was dislocated still. Two weeks is too late to get back such a finger dislocation back in place. Then Shaw clinic's Dr. Price tried roping my finger and giving a man-sized yo-heave, but again two weeks out of location, and it is time for surgury. Dr. Price at least helped give my finger a nice mangled look and then I went to LA County Hosp, and got to go into the emergency room waiting line (only 35 minutes compared to the multi-hour regular waiting line) and I got the free service us Sea Org members qualify for, and a month later, got surgery with the result now my pinky's dislocated joint won't ever bend again.
Oh well! I deserved it, sort of. It is only through the most dedicated participation in Scientology that I could have avoided my own non-standardness, resulting in my neat looking pinky today.
On the laundry plastic hard cleaning balls the size of baseballs, after I got off lifetime staff, and lived for a year in a Scientology rooming house, our OT 5 house owner was on top of all the latest laundry balls, special water, vitamins, but he didn't like the taste of Superfood.
You gotta admit the dedicated Scientologists know how to laugh in blissful ignorance about all their failed quirky sideline products.
I most loved the "Standard" vitamin line and the famous "Standard" handcream.
That was an AVC screwup to end all screwups.
Why not "Ron's Favorites"? Sheesh. The Sea Org members up the food chain at Int used to shake their heads at all the cashing in of "Survival" insurance, with the identical typescript as the original Survival Rundown spiritual counseling service once delivered by the official church, now thankfully re-named.
On the other hand, the elite who hung around LRH unofficially did all the things he did, Kool cigarettes were a hit for while, New Balance running shoes had their day, the gun fads, anything LRH remarked on favorably you can bet those products and minor details became part of the one-up-man-ship game played by LRH's closest confederates. Part of being on-source was to do the things Source (LRH) did! No perfume, no harmful TV rays, etc., etc.
There is a divide mentally even within the whole movement, the upper Sea Org (lifetime staffers in the top executive/administrative positions) get pissed when they see Scientology parishioners getting overly ambitious at using Scientology related communication symbols and words ("Standard", "Survival", "Theta").
Rightly or wrongly so. It is a whole other nuanced perculiarity to the Scientology movement, just like other religions suffer the same sort of cashing in activities.
X-files and UFO shows were a big hit on the communal TV at the Scientology rooming house I used to live in.
Best, Chuck Beatty
Posted on Clmbake Friday, June 24, 2005 - 8:05 pm:
Thanks. I totally agree with you. Your having been out longer, you have gone through the whole learning curve I freely admit I am going through, which longtime persons in the movement gradually go through.
Absolutely agree. There is so much to say, at all stages of one's descent from the heights of indoctrination and group-delusion, back to reality.
I am concerned about the people inside. We are talking about 10,000 total Sea Org members. We are talking about an operation overall with over half a billion dollars assets.
I don't know enough about Phil to comment, other than I like NY Times, Wall Street Journal, credible media, and if the info Phil is forwarding is of that level verified, then Phil is the MAN! Haven't had but a few conversations on ARS with him.
The longtime advanced observers/critics of Scientology are generally correct, and have the years of experience, the one's who have tracked with the ongoing descent of the movement, and I listen carefully to their observations, and appreciate greatly the encouragement and advice I get from them all.
The critics or observers of the Scientology movement have really brought about a huge change, in my opinion, this whole unofficial group, with all it's infighting, and differences, the critics have had an immense impact on Scientology movement's history, particularly getting the sacred scriptures now into public view permanently. That was a major major historical change, that really will have long long range ramifications.
It is a remarkable group of stubborn people who have helped change the course of the Scientology movement's history, the whole ongoing group of people courageous enough to speak out in the face of the official Scientology movement's retaliation for decades.
I so appreciate the giant ex-Sea Org members who defected and did their parts (the ex RTC staff top execs-- Vicki, Jesse -- and earlier David Mayo (if you have not heard his lectures, I recommend them, while I don't agree with ANY continued use of tech for myself, but David Mayo's historical stories on the Sea Org are excellent on the insane beginnings of the Sea Org).
I cannot thank the mainline big people who have done so much in the past 30 years, enough.
Your are absolutely right, but I find the things preventing me from descending all the way into complete hatred of Hubbard and the movement, are:
1) there are thousands of Sea Org members who I know to be damn good people, I have thousands of acquaintances, and some who are and were my more best friends, and the Sea Org WAS my lifetime career, despite how delusive the whole operation was and continues to be. I want those 10,000 odd people to have a "soft-landing" when they themselves tumble out of the movement back to reality. I know how hard it was for me to leave the group. It is a TOUGH TOUGH crawl out of the Sea Org, generally, through the gauntlet of losing one's friends and acquaintances, you have to confront a few new things to say the least, when you start over on the outside.
2) In the US, Scientology has religious status, and kooky as it's science fiction tinted past-lives/future-lives and demon infestation religious views are, they are protected by law to remain a group, etc. and carry on with their practises.
I think intelligent criticism of the offensive inhumane predicaments the Sea Org creates and the Scientology official church policies enforce on their normal parishioners (SP and disconnection policies) are the areas to attack and cause them to stop all those offensive activities.
The day to day offensiveness of the way people are treated, I think, is what I am interested in continuing to expose, and force them to change.
Best, Chuck Beatty, Ex-Sea Org, 75-03
I hope the anonymous Ex-Guardians Office exec who phoned me 2-4 months ago, would you please call me?
I have a question.
Now that Mary Sue is known to have passed away, I so wish to hear again, what you told me.
I so respect people like yourself coming out and at least anonymously setting the record straight with some of us, even if your info is nothing other than person to person trusted opinion.
ANY early GO people, who now I DON'T know them, and have NO way of guessing them, if ANY such old GO people, would call me, totally background totally just offer your opinions, just for my education on what you lived through, and what your opinions are, I SO WOULD APPRECIATE IT!
In particular, the kind gentleman who was ex-old GO, if you call me, that'd be incredible!
I saw Tom Cruise being taken for a "walk" by Greg Wilhere once. It was one of those moments when every staffer on the north side of the highway was supposed to "stay inside", but I was a visitor to the base, not a staffer, at that time, and I didn't get the word to stay inside. I bumped into TC (Tom Cruise is spoken of as "TC", and John Travolta is spoken of as "JT" at the Int Base amongst staffers, the lower level general staffers who only refer to these two celebs like that; this is in keeping with the long tradition that LRH long ago earlier refered to the top messengers by their initials, PB (also Big P), AB, KK, MY, MI, VA, DM, GW, etc., etc., etc.). Anyways, I saw Greg Wilhere doing some sort of outside drill or "walk". That's all I saw first hand. I have heard from others that both TC and JT of course HAVE had extensive auditing at different times in past years. I assume it is true, since I heard it from almost all Int Base staffers who I've asked. In the photo of the base, the area marked the "G's" (P in the photo) are where celebs berth overnight. There are over a dozen tech training films, and TR films, and celebs acting in the tech films or performing music for Gold music or film or video productions have stayed at the G's at different times over the years. I think the auditing for TC was done at the "upper villas" (D in the photo) also in this same aerial photo.
I heard the Upper Villas had the course room where several hand-picked RTC staff or Gold staff ran the course room for Tom Cruise to study in, and I think he got his auditing up there also. Only a few limited Int Base staffers serviced Tom, like Hara O'Hare, and a few other RTC tech staff and one or two Gold tech staff.
> Next, I've heard that DM and some others in
Only the same info you read. I can ask on this, but Jesse Prince I think mentioned this, no doubt what Jesse Prince said is accurate!
> Also, does anyone out there know what the tech/admin
Go on Clambake and ask Ann Marie Woodward.
> Another thing, you posted something sent you by
Ask Ann Marie on Clambake, and read what she's posted already. It is pretty emergency trending.
> I have thought for a long time that Heber's job
I think Heber may come across like that as it is his reaction to what he is doing in life, but I don't think LRH or the top clique wish Heber to be such. He is/was a figurehead, and that is not uncommon in govt's and some organizations. Fallguy, I think is only his predicament, since LRH never properly defended his ideas to the intelligent people who found fault with LRH's ideas, and thus the Scientology movement leaders and supporters find themselves stuck defending the movement per LRH's policies. It all goes back to L. Ron Hubbard, and people having to follow what he ordered. Heber and all Scientology movement people ought to have NO restricting LRH rules about answering and defending their beliefs. People in the movement are ordered to defer media questions and critical questions from the public to certain PR staff, etc. And then the PR staff and others are to only follow LRH's scripted drills and handlings. That is just a violation of each human being's right to answer their own opinions and beliefs. Those LRH rules are fundamentally wrong. I think people should remember this all traces back to L. Ron Hubbard's insistance on following his policy, and the setup keeping people only within his rules. LRH bottles up people's natural rights to speak their own damn opinions. Scientologists who are trained in LRH's PR techniques are being intellectually dishonest (to borrow someone else's observation I think I've read on one of the critic's sites). LRH and the movement pat each other on the head for following LRH's rules, so people are guided into these predicaments.
LRH preempts, with LRH's rules, people's innate freedom of speech and beliefs, and LRH didn't even see this. This is a major LRH blindspot, ingrained and continually harming the movement.
I think greenie Scientologists who aren't trained in PR probably don't restrain themselves as awkwardly as the PR pros trained in LRH's PR and OSA tech, and greenie's come across more honest and genuine.
Scientologists should be allowed to simply answer any media and say whatever they wish to anyone, and not have to follow LRH's bad scripts for dealing with the "attackers". Valid criticism which has been aimed at LRH and the movement for 55 years now, the members should be free to answer any way they want.
Scientologists oughta be free to rectify the valid criticism (if they can), and the criticism just might dry up!
When I was in the Sea Org, and I was sort of following the bad press on the church, and seeing the lame PR attempts to defend the media criticism, I felt I could defend Scientology so much better than any of the goofball bad press handlings I saw being done throughout the 80's and 90's. I knew I'd have to just drop all the PR and "attack the attacker" tactics though.
Ed Parkin is not even OT 3, the OSA WUS person is not OT 3. It almost looks like a convenient built-in credible deniability posting of non-OT staff in PR positions, so they can honestly say they know nothing about the OT 3 story, and come across in public as genuine in their statements. A side note on Ed though, is that ironically after 20 years in the movement, he didn't get up to OT 3, which isn't great promotion on how fast one can get up to OT 3 (I was worse, 27 years, and I wasn't even up to goddamn Clear!)!
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