Chuck Beatty
Internet Posts, February 2008



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Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com"
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 14:23:20 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sun, Feb 3 2008 5:23 pm
Subject: Re: Tip over the White House

Chuck said:

In my opinion, yes to this being LRH's delusion "OT" reaction, being not yet Clear, and being mad at the White House, which LRH in policy writings blames Kennedy for the raid on the Scientology DC organization.

Keshet said:

I thought this might be the case, but wouldn't Hubbard have already been Clear? I've always ASSumed he was actually Clear#1, as a result of his "researches" before the release of Dianetics??

chuck siad:
No. He refrained from putting a glowing label on his own status in regards to Clear and OT.

I think he honestly felt himself a "natural" clear of pretty immense status already. Reference Keeping Scientology Working, where he gives himself the unstated "....we will not speculate here how I rose above the bank..." (I paraphrase Keeping Scientology Working policy of 1965)

I think also David Mayo may have more to say, or others like Paulette Ausley, or some others who audited LRH, maybe Reg Sharpe even audited LRH, I don't recall who all audited him, and what LRH actually said privately to his auditors about his status as regards to Clear and OT.

In the late 1970s, like 1978 or so, when LRH came out with the "Dianetic" Clear he also came out with the "natrual Clear" (someone clear already before, someone who naturally has been Clear all along).

If you have the opportunity, go onto ESMB, the Ex Scientologist message board and strike up a conversation with Alan Walter, since Alan was a contemporary of LRH, and had numerous frank "tech" conversations with LRH over the years, and Alan's probably got some important firsthand undeniably historical details of LRH saying this or that about who LRH conceived of LRH's own case state, or not, but Alan can talk about the whole crew of top tech people of the 1960s.

Paulette Ausley and David Mayo, both have studied LRH's case folders, so they should know reams about LRH's conception of himself privately. And until Hubbard's case folders find their way into the public domain, I urge people to somehow get into the public domain as many anecdotal accounts of these tech people who tried to care Scientologically for Hubbard's "case." I think there's no way the details will become public, not unless these people write privately and hold their writings or recorded views until after they are pass away, so as not to cause legal difficulties for them.

Otto Roos also, I recall, tried hard to help handle Hubbard's "case", so might know what Hubbard privately thought of himself around this time in 1963 when Hubbard was making these comments you quote.

I hope Otto likewise someday privately writes or allows some in depth interviews about Hubbard, even privately, for release after Otto passes away if need be.

Keshet said:
Yes, I think he means as an "OT", doing some telekinetic act of causing the White House building to literally tip over.

chuck said:
I think in context, this was intended thought, and NOT literally.

keshet said:
That was my initial feeling as well. As I mentioned, it's hard to tell when he is joking and when he is serious without *listening* to his tapes (I don't have the SHSBC tapes, just some of the transcripts). I tend to ASSume he is joking in matters like this, until I get confirmation otherwise from elsewhere.

chuck said:
yes, absolutely, he was joking.

Example, I read the 1981 or 1982 jab comment by Hubbard about the administrator who screwed up handling the Missions, a man named John Acxel. LRH said in this 1982 advice, I paraphrase (but I've confirmed this with the Messenger on Duty level trusted former CMO Messenger person who also read this Hubbard advice/order) LRH said: "...and if you see John Acxel, spit on him for me....." (I've asked Roger Barnes, who was there when John was spit on by Miscavige if it was true, Roger said yes, it happened, and Roger was also spat on.) (John Acxel is a mild mannered Englishman, sort of a Harvey Cox lookalike, with thick dark rimmed glasses, and John was asked to take his glasses off before Miscavige struck him and spat on him, this was 1981 or 1982 at Gilman Hot Springs.)

That "...spit on him for me...." was entirely figurative in my librarian lower echelon person's viewpoint. I know Larry Brennan, much higher, much more on the spot when the "...spit on him for me...." LRH order/advice was issued, Larry was in the thick of executing top level corporate solutions for the "fanatical" top players, working cheek and jowel with David Miscavige, not quite as closely as was Jesse Prince who was even closer to David Miscavige, but the point is Larry saw this same LRH advice/order and Larry thought that the top players, Miscavige, Jesse, Steve Marlowe, Wendell Reynolds, Mark Yager, thought this was to be taken literally.

I from the lower level sort of librarian expert view, could clearly see the LRH comment was meant as figuratively. I think Larry is probably more right, but I hope others who were there at the moment of John Acxel's spitting/hitting incident speak up for the record.

But in the top level world, at that time, amongst these new "young turks" taken the reigns, the "....spit on him for me...." comment was taken literally, and that was date coincident, in my opinion, with that early 1980s fad David Miscavige and others felt was an "ethics gradient" so sptting on staff occurred. Homer Schomer's being spit on by the majority of the Author Services Inc staff in 1982 was an example.

Chuck said:
LRH in lectures of that period talks about also being an OT, pure OT, on a planet where bodiless OTs acted roles for the leaders on some planets. LRH in one lecture tells of pulling down the walls at a theatre performance, on the crowd, killing some of the humans, and LRH states in that lecture that this type of incident was why pure bodiless OTs were NOT popular in meat body governed civilizations, since a powerful OT could get into mischieveous situations or worse.

Keshet said:
I certainly would. :-)

Chuck said:
The "Whole Track" cassette series is kicking around widely, you can find it in the used bookstores in LA, the big used bookstore on one of Pasadena's main drag roads, I used to find Scientology stuff there all the time.

Again, LRH spread all over his doctrines talked about how an OT had to be Clear, otherwise they'd do mischevious things or worse, and also his doctrines about how an OT restrains himself, it all fits together, namely an OT will shut their own power right down, since they see they can just cause things in the physical universe.

Kesket asked:
Is it possible to be OT without being clear??

Chuck said:
yes. But because such an "OT" commits mistakes, the "OT" person per Hubbard will decide to NOT do bad deeds, and they will shut down their "OT" powers so as not to do bad deeds.

Miscavige in one church event lays it out that even if the CIA get all the church's L rundown and high level rundowns, like the superpower rundowns, that an evil person gaining the OT abilities won't be able to use those abilities for long, since the person being evil will automatically shut themselves down, Hubbard claiming there is a built in "ethics" that thetans (us as souls) have to limit us even using our latent OT power! Conviently believable plausible explanation acceptable to the faithful who want to keep believing in the OT powers, and it's a built in explanation for why no one can demonstrate their pure OT horsepower, in that it is due to each of our low ethics/ moral state we prevent ourselves from getting back our OT superpowers!

I don't think Hubbard is the first in stating this about the high supposed spiritual horsepower abilities, but I think even this dodge excuse also existed for thousands of years with all the eastern spiritual guru powerful mystics as well. (I'm not a trained religious historian, but that's my guess.)

This is all just fantasy and carefully layered to "make sense" but there are NO OTs and no person has been like these floating gods. But I mean, Greek gods weren't visible most of the time to humans unless the Greek gods intended to take a human form or if they intended to be seen by humans, and the Greek gods did all sorts of physical intervention.

I mean, Hubbard's Scientology OTs are just like the minor gods who in humankind's history did all sorts of fantastic things.

By tipping over the White House, when I read that quote, when I was a Scientologist, I thought of the lecture when LRH talked of the pure OT (bodiless OT) of that ancient civilization which collapsed the wall on the audience at a theatre performance.

Another example of an OT doing planet level mischief (genocide or planeticide) is the tapes LRH mentions an OT "pulling the atmosphere" off a planet and killing all life on a planet.

Keshet said:
This reminds me of Hubbard's story of the Venuzuelan dictator who wiped out leprosy by blowing up all the beggars (some of whom presumably did not have leprosy). At the end of that tale, Hubbard says he's not advocating violence but simply relating an historical note. However, for me, the story comes across as a veiled threat. I've come across a couple other instances where he's done something like this, and I think he does it on purpose--actually intending the threat (like in your planeticide story, as an example of the power of of OTs) but making a joke of it, so he couldn't actually be accused of making threats. It's creepy.

Chuck said:
yes, and I highly highly recommend you listen to all of Larry Brennan's and Jesse Prince's and Vicki and Rick Aznaran's talks and writings, since they were there in the 1981-1982 heyday of the fanatical demonstration misinterpretation (my librarian lower echelon view) of the "....spit on him for me...." mentality.

Chuck said: If you've listened to the tape lectures in the "Whole Track" lecture series, I think there is one or two mentions of largescale descructive power of one of these past track OTs.

> Keshet said:
I have the Whole Track tapes and have listened to a couple. I guess I need to listen to more.

Chuck said:
Then it is another lecture. Hook up with some freezone people, Ralph HIlton may know or can refer you to others that know.

I wish we had the Scientology INCOMM "SIR" (Source Information Retrieval) computer library system, as the SIR system has ALL of Hubbard's writings and lectures and private issues and private orders/ advices ALL on computer and easily searchable, to find ALL the places LRH talks of OT and Clear status, and anything ELSE.

Some freezone Scientologists should be able to give the lectures.

Keshet said:
Thanks for your input.

Keshet

Chuck Said: Sure. Chuck
PS: I am in this for the long haul, in that since I dedicated so many of my years of "memory bank" space to Hubbard's doctrines, I will gladly network and help any researchers connect with whoever else can best help them clarify things about what Hubbard said and meant. I hope all the ex Scientologists who were on the ground with Hubbard as Hubbard wrote this or that policy, or when Hubbard gave this or that lecture, that the surrounding events can be dissected if need be.

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com"
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 20:18:17 -0800 (PST)
Local: Mon, Feb 11 2008 11:18 pm
Subject: Buffalo clip interview, Chuck Beatty

http://tinyurl.com/38ptz8

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com"
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 08:01:26 -0800 (PST)
Local: Tues, Feb 12 2008 11:01 am
Subject: Re: To All Scientologists, with Love, From Anonymous.

On Feb 12, 9:10am, Ananamuss wrote:

> Hello.

> I want you to know something very important: We love you. We do. We
> love you and we fear for your safety. This is why we are speaking
> out.

> We speak out because we love you as brothers, sisters, mothers,
> fathers, children and friends. We speak out because we are afraid
> for you. We speak out because we can not stand by and watch lives and
> families ripped apart.

> We know you are a Scientologist because you wish the world to be a
> better place. We know you believe strongly in your tech.

> We do not wish to take your tech away from you.

> We only want what is right. We want you to be free from the shackles
> of the greed of your Church leaders. We want to ensure you do not
> fear imprisonment by your Church. We want to ensure you have access
> to medical care. We want to ensure that you have enough to eat. We
> want to ensure that you are not separated from your families and
> friends. We want to end the harmful practices of your Church.

> We encourage you to explore other options for continuing to practice
> your beliefs. We encourage you to contact the Freezone if you wish to
> consider continuing with your tech.

> We encourage you to speak out and ask questions. We encourage you to
> empower yourself with knowledge and truth.

> We are Legion.

> We are Anonymous.

> We are Here.

[Dear Anonymous]

Thanks. People sense instinctively the things that are legitimately wrong with Scientology, usually the first moment they hear the word "Scien t ology" which is loaded with pretension.

I loved the great FLICKR photo stream of the protests. London's and Portland's demonstrations to me looked like they had some of the best signs. Loved Arnie's sign for the DC protest.

It's overwhelming the amount of protest.

This will have to be taken into notice by scholars looking at new religious movements!

I mean, what other new religious movement in the last 150 years drew so much coordinated PROTEST, and rightfully!

This is something that no scholar is even taking time to think about.

Next time, I hope some of the writers and scholars who study new religious movements, do their homework, and ask the dozens and dozens of the 10. 20, 30 years ex members, who have pretty conclusive sophisticated views of why Scientology is NOT destined to success.

Scientology trudged along because of the way their are financially arranged. Over grasping for funds, and underpaying staffs, the bureaucractic rules that force the money UP the command channels, they have a "working" business model and such a HUGE amount of rules for their staffs to follow to the letter, keeping them all working hard in their cacoon of delusion, thinking they are accomplishing grand galactic level good for humankind.

Scientology is a cohesive package that keeps itself going. It's got a tough shell to protect itself within it's cacoon of delusion, and it's won enough scholarly labeling in terminology that in the scholarly world word games legitimizes Scientology.

So unraveling Scientology isn't a walk in the park, I think it will take a while.

At least with the Anonymous protests occurring over and over, this year, I heard many more are planned, this will choke off any recruitment from the youth sector.

The protests are now an historical fact that have to be taken into account in further looking at WHY does Scientology provoke such rejection by the youth today in western civilization!

What other new religious movement attracts such spontaneous rejection sufficient to make so many young people want to hit the streets in protest?

That in itself says something about the core downsides in Scientology taking on the role that Scientology tries to take for itself.

Scientologists are good people stuck in a prolific web of Hubbard bad ideas, cacooned into a delusion because of the human ability to elevate delusional ideas into "reality."

Who better to spin an inspirational new religious movement, but a hard charging adventure sparking pulp fiction writer, L. Ron Hubbard.

The word "Scien t ology" says it all.

Chuck Beatty
ex Scientology staffer (1975-2003)
412-260-1170 Pittsburgh, USA (anyone call me anytime!)
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckbeatty77/
http://tinyurl.com/295khy
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05205/542899.stm
http://tinyurl.com/38ptz8

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology, de.soc.weltanschauung.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com"
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 08:56:53 -0800 (PST)
Local: Tues, Feb 12 2008 11:56 am
Subject: Re: Anonymous and anti-religious extremists, do you know that if David Miscavige resigns over family problems from the leadership of the C of S that that Scientology will not be defeated?

On Feb 11, 4:32�pm, Loveandmanymanymanymanyhugs...@googlemail.com wrote:

> A new leader would take his position.

> I just want to make sure that you understand this.

> Dave Miscavige and Tom Cruise are best friends. If David Miscavige
> would resign from his position, he might do movies with Tom Cruise,
> and you would see a lot more of him.

> http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/intolerance-hate/combating-hate/

Correct.

Scientology is Hubbard's brainchild, and Hubbard spent decades cheek by jowel managing the movement, almost up to his death. He just kept adding the orders and policies telling the Scientologists how to keep his "show on the road." And it is a show!!!! People are lead to fake the high up supposed spiritual abilities, but NO ONE can fly. I loved the one poster of one demonstrator that said "TOM CRUISE CAN'T FLY" That says it all. There is no pot of gold at the end of the Scientology "Bridge to Total Freedom."

Hubbard's decades of administrative control of the Scientology movement gave Hubbard time to embed the movement's bureaucracies with layers of unchallengeable unreformable problamatic rules, that snow blind the followers once they are within the cloud of Hubbard's writings/bureaucracies.

Like you!

You are in the snow blind crowd. The staff further up the pecking order are the ones full time operating the snow blowers spewing out the snow clouds that Hubbard set up. Office of Special Affairs today is the main snow cloud spewing sub bureaucracy in the Scienotlogy movement.

I think the anonymous kids are the smart travelers in life.

They look at Scientology's offerings, and their demonstrations are their vote!

I think it is pretty damn clear at this point, the youth of western civilization are NOT going to be entering into Hubbard's snow clouds, called "orgs"!!!

Anonymous speak for western civilization's youth.

They don't want no Scientology! (Like the "Who" in the Tommy rock opera, who said "We're not gonna take it! Never did and never will!.....We don't want your religion!")

Scientology has LOST the youth vote, if you haven't noticed!

In America, Scientlogy has the right to spread it's snow cloud (Hubbard's snow cloud), but that's just America.

The youth ain't buying the Hubbard bullcrap!

No matter how Scientologists try to position themselves.

The youth ain't buying.

That's why EVERYONE honks their horns against Scientology!

Chuck Beatty
ex Scientology staffer (1975-2003)
412-260-1170 Pittsburgh, USA (anyone call me anytime!)
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckbeatty77/
http://tinyurl.com/295khy
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05205/542899.stm
http://tinyurl.com/38ptz8

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com"
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 08:27:01 -0800 (PST)
Local: Tues, Feb 12 2008 11:27 am
Subject: Re: Was proud to stand with Anonymous in Boston on Feb 10!!! Some press on it with OSA's attack on Anonymous and my reply to OSA

http://tinyurl.com/3crh4s

Go Larry!

Unfortunately, Hubbard left the followers no blueprint for dealing with Anonymous, or "debating" in public.

All that Scientology are left with are rules that shackle them in their ad hominem counter attacks, as that was Hubbard's way himself to deal with people taking his ideas to task.

The movement is truly a Hubbard operation, acting out Hubbard's own imperfect self.

Scientology isn't a doctrine/new religious movement. It is one man's (Hubbard's) creation/fantasy/bureaucracy.

It's a form of Flash Gordan money grubbing 1984 eastern guru type new religious movement.

I'm a Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris supporting atheist, so I have a no holds barred view of ANY of Hubbard's unprovable ideas that make up the Scientology operation.

Scientology can reform, collapse or muddle along attracting controversies.

Anonymous has to be taken seriously, because what other new religious movement has spurred this type of spontaneous reaction of young people in western civilization?

None!

Why!

Because of Hubbard's blatant bold challenging combative inspirational crappy ideas that the official Scientologists are forced to enforce on their own and on their "enemies."

Hubbard is the one at fault.

I think some damn smart writers need to take on Scientology and bore into Hubbard's ideas, and show the Hubbard mentality.

Russell Miller had Hubbard right.

Hubbard's Scientology is an American mess thrust on the world.

I think the media have been hoodwinked due to NO one really in academia with the mental horsepower to put goddamn Hubbard in his place.

No Gore Vidal or comparable intellectual bothered to waste the time to dissect Hubbard.

Hopefully one good thing that Anonymous will do, is get some intellectuals stirred to spend the time and dissect Hubbard and take Russell Miller's work further into WHY Hubbard got away with what Hubbard got away with!

The kids, Anonymous, are saying, enough is enough with this Scientology stuff!!!!!

Chuck Beatty
ex Scientology staffer (1975-2003)
412-260-1170 Pittsburgh, USA (anyone call me anytime!)
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckbeatty77/
http://tinyurl.com/295khy
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05205/542899.stm
http://tinyurl.com/38ptz8

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com" Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:36:44 -0800 (PST)
Local: Tues, Feb 12 2008 12:36 pm
Subject: Re: BFG and what's next

snip [I snipped the posting of the imposter "BFG"]
> Until next time...
> -BFG

At this point, you should have observed that the anti Hubbard sentiments are NOT coming from a core of advanced critics.

So attacking the hard core "critics" is sideline and NOT affecting the "LRH Image" statistics a bit.

There's no putting the cat back into the bag.

The youth of western civilization are voting, and they're saying in simple terms that Scientology ain't for them!

The wave of support that some youth gave to Scientology in the 50s, 60s and 70s has died out.

As Scientology became more embedded with Hubbard's paranoid delusional ideas, the more entrenched you guys are, in being stuck with only his options.

So, you are stuck also with slamming the same lineup of "critics" over and over.

While in the meantime, the whole western civ youth just stood up and said quite clearly:

"SCIENTOLOGY SUCKS!"

You ain't winning and hitting the lineup of critics, the kids at Buffalo, the savvy ones, they don't buy your attempts to leak disinformation like you are trying.

It doesn't work.

Hubbard's crappy unchangeable unchallengeable 1984-ism ideas are OUT in the public domain.

You've lost the youth vote!

The kids aren't buying the Hubbard crap!

So you hitting on the old fart experienced critics, is a losing battle, probably only a cover your ass OSA response to trying to salvage the horrible "LRH Image" statistics that just took an all time dive due to Sunday's demonstrations around the world!

No libs for you guys this week! Huh?

Chuck Beatty
Ex-Sea Org (lifetime staffer, 1975-2003)

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com"
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:26:24 -0800 (PST)
Local: Thurs, Feb 21 2008 11:26 pm
Subject: Re: My posters for the 15 March 2008 anon demonstrations

On Feb 19, 7:55 pm, Tom Newton wrote:

> On 2008-02-19, chuckbeatty77 @aol.com wrote:

> > "HOW CAN YOU EXPECT THE PUBLIC TO TREAT YOU LIKE A RELIGION WHEN YOU
> > DON'T ACT LIKE A RELIGION BEHIND CLOSED DOORS?

> The public isn't involved in your hate campaign.

True, I meet lots of people who tell me the same. And I meet lots MORE people who think Scientology is something that abuses people, and that view about Scientology I have to admit is the majority view that most people have about Scientology, that it essentially takes advantage of the followers of Scientology. One bit of truth is that the overwhelming majority of ex Scientologists agree with that view! There has been no surveying done by Scientology honestly of the vast numbers of quitters. The numbers of disgruntled ex members of Scientology is overwhelming!

So I think the movement has to reform at least it's most abusive behavior and act more like the good that is commonly expected of a religion. It has to somehow stop pissing so many people off, by modifying the most abusive of its practices and rules.

> The public thinks you are a bunch of wackjobs.

Some public do, no doubt. But I get phone calls every week by media and ex members and even yesterday, an existing OT 7 in good standing.

> But you have a point. They could be molesting little boys
> like the Catholics, and then they'd be a real religion, right?

I don't think any wrongs of any religions are defensible. I let others criticize the religions they are aware of.

I spent 27 years in the lifetime staff category of Scientology, and discussing one's life and being critical in hindsight of things that are out of step with what is generally agreed upon as acceptable behavior of a group that calls itself a religion, I can speak with some familiarity about Scientology at least.

> > STOP DAVID MISCAVIGE
> > AND HIS ROLE MODEL TREND OF PUNITIVE PHYSICAL SLAPPING OF THE TOP
> > MOVEMENT EXECUTIVES AND OTHER DEMEANING PUNITIVE TREATMENT THAT DAVID
> > MISCAVIGE DISHES OUT BEHIND CLOSED DOORS AT GILMAN HOT SPRINGS TO THE
> > TOP SCIENTOLOGIST LEADERSHIP. MIKE RINDER BLEW. YOU CAN TOO!!!"

> Wow! He actually _slapped_ someone?

Read Andrew Morton's book, look up "Guy White" in the index, and read what Miscavige did to Guy White.

On Clambake chat group, a poster named blownforgood has detailed petty violence he/she witnessed personally, and blownforgood just posted another instance of petty violence committed some years ago by David Miscavige:
http://tinyurl.com/3dco7x

> How does that compare with the Catholic Church's sexual abuse of
> little boys?

Not as bad, I agree. But if you consider that David Miscavige over the past 8 years, has increasingly treated senior leaders of Scientology in this disgraceful manner, and he has encouraged them to treat one another with this petty violence and demeaning manner, it is just not right.

Sure, it does NOT compare to the violence committed outside the movement, I agree.

> > "DAVID MISCAVIGE SHOULD STEP DOWN DUE TO HIS BEHIND CLOSED DOORS
> > IRRELIGIOUS EXCESSIVE PUNITIVE TREATMENT OF THE TOP LEADERSHIP OF THE
> > MOVEMENT."

> Says you. But you are a nutcase with no credibility.

Well, I connect media and book writers to people with firsthand stories, and those stories are making it into the public domain, and those people are not lying, so my credibility is the fact that I know the people who've been spit on, slapped in the head, punched in the stomach, by David Miscavige, and those people have gone public, and the information is leaking out publicly.

I don't think it acceptable that the leader of a so called religion acts like this.

Credibility has nothing to do with it. The people with the negative experiences with Miscavige are speaking on the record. Guy White went on record.

More will go on record in the future. Wait and see.

> > "REVERSE ALL FALSE SP DECLARES. AMNESTY ALL FALSE SP DECLARES."

> Run your own life.

> Of course, you need to GET a life, first.

Do you know what an SP declare does to people's relationships? It completely makes it so that the Scientologist is forced to NOT even acknowledge communication sent to them from the "SP."

Other religions, like Catholic, does not even enforce the excommunication rules as harshly.

> > "USE SEA ORG RESERVE FUNDS TO BLANKET REFUND ALL DISGRUNTLED EX-
> > MEMBERS WHO FELT SCAMMED BY SCIENTOLOGY'S 'BRIDGE TO TOTAL FREEDOM'!"

> So they kicked you out because you are a nutjob.

Do you know me? Call me, 412-260-1170, I live in Pittsburgh. Or give me your phone number, let's talk.

> > "LET SCIENTOLOGY MEMBERSHIP TALK FREELY (TO FRIENDS, FAMILY, MEDIA, TO
> > ANYONE) AND TAKE PART IN DISCUSSING AND REFORMING SCIENTOLOGY. STOP
> > BEING A TOTALITARIAN CULT WHERE THE MEMBERS HAVE NO SAY ON REFORMING
> > THE MOVEMENT!"

> My neighbors are Scientologists. They talk about their organization
> all the time. With anyone.

> Try anchoring yourself in the real world.

Call me, if you think you know me. You obviously don't. Call me and find out. 412-260-1170, I live in Pittsburgh. I am a door to door salesman.

> > "DON'T ENFORCE PENALTIES FOR MEMBERS DISCUSSING THE NO LONGER
> > CONFIDENTIAL THEOLOGY OF SCIENTOLOGY (THE 75 MILLION YEAR AGO INCIDENT
> > WHEN ALIEN SPACE LEADER LORD XENU COMMITTED THE MASSIVE GENOCIDE IN
> > THE VOLCANOS OF EARTH, RESULTING IN THE SURPLUS NUMBERS OF BODY
> > THETANS WHICH TODAY INFEST SUPPOSEDLY ALL HUMANKIND)!"

> My neighbors the Scientologists mostly talk about the people they
> are helping get their lives together.

> Never heard any sci-fi talk like that.

> But it isn't any stranger than the stuff in the Old Testament, is
> it?

No problem with that because Christians are free to discuss the writings in the Bible any way they wish.

Scientologists are given severe penalties, in fact they would cause themselves to be assigned "lower conditions" for discussing in public any of the confidential "OT" level theology.

Yet this information about body thetans, the bodiless thetans roaming earth, because we still have a huge surplus of thetans without sufficient bodies for them to inhabit, so our supposed spiritual predicament, Scientologists are NOT allowed to even freely discuss humankind's predicament, other than behind the closed doors of the "OT Courseroom" when they sneak a conversation with fellow Scientologists who are only at those high OT levels studies!

Normal religious members are free to discuss their Bible and teachings.

There is no reason, at this time, and I asked a former 38 year staffer who spent over 10 years around Hubbard, I asked that 38 year Sea Org veteran if in his opinion would LRH somehow today do something about the fact that the OT story is out in the public domain, yet members can't even discuss it, and this 38 year veteran said in his opinion, yes, that LRH would somehow make the OT stuff somehow public and drop the harsh penalty rules keeping members from discussing it.

But the movement is stuck with a whole bunch of overly harsh rules that penalize them severely for discussing even the word Xenu and body thetans. They can't even discuss body thetans without immediately getting in "ethics trouble" for discussing the confidential theology of Scientology.

That is the real point.

Just let the members discuss the theory and theology freely, without penalty!

> Or do you consider talking to a burning bush that's supposed to be
> God, normal?

I am an atheist, and I think all of the unprovable cosmology and miracle stuff that cannot be duplicated normally today to be fiction and imagination, all of it. It is human creative fantasy.

What is real to me is what we can do and see with our senses or with equipment that magnifies or senses things.

> And how about that Jesus fellow turning water into wine?

> Pretty far out...

yes, and the important point is that Christians nowhere are declared SP for speaking the bible stories publicly.

But if a Scientologist were to take the confidential OT material and read it on Google Video, the church of Scientology would declare that Scientologist a suppressive person and disallow that Scientologist from doing their next OT level! Hubbard made leaking of the confidential theology a suppressive act and there is the severest penalty, including NO more OT levels for the person who leaks the Scientology confidential theology.

And now that the confidential theology is all over the internet, the Scientology movement is dumb about how to deal with this.

Their solution is just keep taking the confidential material off the internet wherever they can.

That isn't realistic.

What is realistic is for the church of Scientology to reform.

Do like the LONG term vets think, and just stop applying the penalty rules, and let all members discuss the Hubbard no longer confidential theology.

And secondly, stop altogether the SP declaring, it just pisses more people off against Scientology.

> > "LET YOUR MEMBERS BE NORMAL CITIZENS AND DISCUSS ALL THE "UPPER LEVEL"
> > RELIGIOUS BELIEFS OF SCIENTOLOGY WHICH NORMAL CITIZENS OUT HERE IN THE
> > REAL WORLD NOW HAVE FULL ACCESS TO. STOP ENFORCING THE MOST
> > TOTALITARIAN PENALTY RULES! "

> Well. YOU know about these "upper level religiogious beliefs", and
> obviously a lot of people do.

Yes, and we aren't sick, we aren't damaged by the information.

Last night I got a phone call from a Scientologist in good standing, a full OT 7, and I asked this OT 7 person if they thought that telling people freely the OT confidential stuff would do harm, and they said absolutely not.

So even Scientologists in good standing, full OT 7 status, don't agree with the Hubbard harsh penalty rules that say it is a suppressive act to openly publicly discuss the OT theology stuff!

But that OT 7 person is scared to say this publicly, they'd get in immediate trouble, they'd get talked to by the Flag and Freewinds Ethics Officers, and told they are out of line, and they likely would be forced to do extensive security checking, because that kind of public statement made to me or made publicly, would just be complete treason to Hubbard's rules.

Scientologists are not allowed to have anti Hubbard opinions publicly, where they think that some of Hubbard's harsh SP penalties are too much or are wrong.

That is the totalitarian predicament that the members, and also the top ranks lifetime staff are stuck with.

They have a system that has some truly harsh unchallengeable rules they just have not a way to outthink and stop applying certain Hubbard rules (which is also why I asked the 38 year veteran who I respected a lot and this person still respects Hubbard, but this person knows Hubbard well enough to be willing to offer an opinion of what they think Hubbard would do, which itself is one of Hubbard's policies, which is essentially "do what LRH would do" when the movement members are faced with a new problem, and the confidential materials being freely all over the world on the internet now, THAT IS A PERMANENT BIG PROBLEM in that new people coming into Scientology know things that the old time non OT level people don't know and are discussing and even Scientology PR people who are not OT, those PR people don't know what the everyday people who've read the OT materials on the internet are talking about.)

Which goes back to another of my suggestions/disagreements with the movement.

The movement has two councils, the Executive Strata, and the Watchdog Committee.

Those two bodies, between them, they could order an administrative action called an "Evaluation" of these major problems the church of Scientology is encountering.

They could research out the Hubbard policies and figure out how to deal with this predicament that the world today knows the confidential theology but that they themselves as staff and their parishioners, they are NOT allowed to discuss this theology otherwise face the harsh Hubbard penalty rules of being declared SP and losing their rights to do the OT levels themselves any further.

The Exec Strata has a sub unit which is called the "Eval Corps" which is the team of people who do "evaluations."

Well there are some MAJOR situations that the Scientology movement faces, which they could and should internally assign their top people to evaluate, and find a workable solution to these major problems.

The excommunication problem, splitting up families, is one.

The OT confidential theology spread all over the internet and the world at this time, is another.

I say they should face these situations and soften their rules to adapt to this.

I say they should soften their counter attacking even more.

Doing so would be a tremendous improvement for them.

> If you aren't making the whole thing up out of whole cloth because
> you are a fanatic who can justify anything in order to destroy
> the Evil Scientologists Who Are Out To Destroy The World.

You should read my site of postings, and give me a call.

I worked as a training course supervisor for the movement for about 5 years, here's a photo of me. http://tinyurl.com/295khy

If there is an honorable way out of the predicaments the Scientology movement is enmeshed in, I prefer to see that option.

I don't think they will crash and burn, and I think they will adapt.

Some way more experienced and senior ex members have way more expert opinions than me.

Some of the way more experienced top ranks ex members think that David Miscavige first has to go.

Some don't think the movement is able to change the Hubbard rules sufficiently, and that the movement is doomed to punish itself endlessly with these Hubbard built in flaws.

I think if anyone is to give the movement a chance, the best chance it has, is what I suggest above, which is somehow assign their top leadership (NOT Miscavige) to evaluating HOW they can modify Hubbard's harshest and most foul church rules, so as NOT to penalize the members for the things I mentioned above.

> I mean, how can we trust what you say? You don't have the courage
> or integrity to identify yourself and stand behind your words.

I don't know who you are. I was a staff member for 27 years.

In the almost 4 years I've been posting publicly on Clambake and ARS, I have met over 200 ex Sea Org members and dozens of media, hooked up over 50 people to media for interviews and the books, like the Andrew Morton book.

I network the former members of the lifetime staff category upper ranks to media and to each other.

These people, many of them, I've known for over 30 years now.

These are the people I lived and worked with since 1975.

There is a certain amount of trust amongst these ex members. There's no reason to lie about David Miscavige beating the upper ranks leadership people up! I wished that this was not happening, and I wish to see it cease as a fad practice!

> But you sure don't have any problem identifying other people.

I identify the people, since they are victims. Men getting beat up by Miscavige, should not be being beaten up by Miscavige, that's the simplicity of the matter. Miscavige should be implementing other of the Hubbard rules, and NOT be slapping these men around like he has been doing.

Call me, 412-260-1170, Chuck Beatty

> Hypocrite. Coward.

why don't you do you homework on me:

> Tom

> --
> calhobbit (at) | Artificial Intelligence:
> gmail [DOT] com | When the real thing just won't do.

Chuck Beatty
Ex-Sea Org (lifetime staffer, 1975-2003)
Flag Dec 1975-Jun 1983 (TTC, Sup, Word Clearer, D of T, etc.)
Int Base 1983-1984 (Routing Forms Pjt)
Snr HCO Int in the FB in LA 1984-87 Re-Training (Int and LA) 87-88
Int Training Org, LA 88 (Sec Checker Sup)
LRH Tech Research and Comps, CMO Int, (Sept 88-Feb 89)
Int RPF (Feb-Mar 89)
PAC RPF (Mar-May 89)
Int Training Org (May-Sept 89) (Admin Sup)
INCOMM Sep 89-Sept 90 (Routing Forms Pjt)
INCOMM Sept 90-May92 (Computer Room LA & Int)
ASI May 92-Dec95 (Computer Room, In-Training Esto)
Decks Int (Dec 95-Jun 96)
Int RPF (Jun 96-Nov 2000)
PAC RPF (Nov 2000-Mar2003)
Routed out March 29, 2003.
Join XSO and network to old Sea Org friends:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/XSO/
Chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckbeatty77/
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05205/542899.stm
http://tinyurl.com/38ptz8
http:[email protected]/
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=32959922&size=l
I live in Pittsburgh, anyone feel free to call
me anytime: 412-260-1170
http://tinyurl.com/38ptz8 buffalo video
http://tinyurl.com/ywhgaf buffalo poster

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com"
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:56:29 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sun, Feb 24 2008 7:56 pm
Subject: Suggested signs for future demonstrations....to point out Scientologist volunteer agent provacateurs.

Suggestion, the following two [three] signs be on hand, to use if any Scientologists acting like agent provacateurs show up at any demonstrations:

"WATCH THIS PERSON!!!! LIVE! This person is an L. Ron Hubbard trained agent provacateur"

"L. Ron Hubbard irreligious Scientology intelligence tactics on display HERE! WATCH THIS HUBBARD AGENT PROVACATEUR IN ACTION!"

"Scientology agent provacateurs, DEFECT (blow), and JOIN US! Mike Rinder blew, you can too!"

I think just in case some advanced Scientologist agent provacateurs show up to engage with demonstrators and do their bull-baiting and dead agenting tactics, and trying to ruffle the feathers of any ex Scientologists who show up (namely the "head on a pike" people Scientology likes to label the ring leaders, etc.), a couple of short smartly worded signs be on hand, and demonstrators with these signs get next to the Scientologist agent provacateurs with these signs, if needed.

It might be this isn't gonna be needed, should Scientologists more act like Billy Sheehan did at the LA 10 Feb 08 demonstration. I think Billy's spontaneous showing up and making his own handmade sign, that is the way Scientology needs to go.

Let their people just speak freely whatever they want, and stop all the agent provacateur stuff.

BUT if Scientology tries any agent provacateur stuff, I suggest a couple of signs, on hand, to hold up next to the obvious Scientologists who don't know that this old style agent provacateur dead agenting counter attack bullbaiting stuff is NOT the current Scientology defense strategy for the demonstrations ahead.

We shall see.

Chuck Beatty
Ex-Sea Org (lifetime staffer, 1975-2003)
Flag Dec 1975-Jun 1983 (TTC, Sup, Word Clearer, D of T, etc.)
Int Base 1983-1984 (Routing Forms Pjt)
Snr HCO Int in the FB in LA 1984-87 Re-Training (Int and LA) 87-88
Int Training Org, LA 88 (Sec Checker Sup)
LRH Tech Research and Comps, CMO Int, (Sept 88-Feb 89)
Int RPF (Feb-Mar 89)
PAC RPF (Mar-May 89)
Int Training Org (May-Sept 89) (Admin Sup)
INCOMM Sep 89-Sept 90 (Routing Forms Pjt)
INCOMM Sept 90-May92 (Computer Room LA & Int)
ASI May 92-Dec95 (Computer Room, In-Training Esto)
Decks Int (Dec 95-Jun 96)
Int RPF (Jun 96-Nov 2000)
PAC RPF (Nov 2000-Mar2003)
Routed out March 29, 2003.
Join XSO and network to old Sea Org friends:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/XSO/
Chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckbeatty77/
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05205/542899.stm
http://tinyurl.com/38ptz8
http:[email protected]/
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=32959922&size=l
I live in Pittsburgh, anyone feel free to call
me anytime: 412-260-1170
http://tinyurl.com/38ptz8 buffalo video
http://tinyurl.com/ywhgaf buffalo poster

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com"
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 18:01:47 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sun, Feb 24 2008 9:01 pm
Subject: Re: Suggested signs for future demonstrations....to point out Scientologist volunteer agent provacateurs.

On Feb 24, 8:08�pm, Barbara Schwarz wrote:

> I don't like you smearing Ron's name, Chuck. You also failed to
> explain your cozy relationship with the German secret service,

snip

The reason I didn't was like I said in that initial thread last year. Your (OSA's asking via you because you are acting as their hapless witting or unwitting volunteer intell gathering playing your plausibly deniable relay terminal role) asking me to debrief on my trip to EU, regarding which government people of which countries I met with, would be giving the OSA staffer's whose hands are otherwise "tied" since as you know they cannot surveil, they cannot send OSA volunteers spying into the governements of EU at this time for fear of being caught and exposed, thus I realized your asking me to detail the government people I met at the "cult conference" which you've now repeated again, would just play into OSA's disinformation campaign. You really mark yourself as a mouthpiece for some Intell Branch Data gathering staffer of OSA who wants to get some intell on the cheap! Part of your plausibly deniable role you (whoever you really are moment to moment) play here on ARS.

Best I think is ex Scientologists read Hubbard's own policies that he issued to the Guardian's Office, and which are still carried out by OSA Intell staff, of which you act as a witting or unwitting player (witting, since you limited your response to me to ask what can only be helpful to OSA, you asked such an obvious intell gathering question).

http://www.xenu.net/archive/go/agiadmin/agiadm1.htm
http://www.xenu.net/archive/go/ic_conts.htm
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/cult/osa-int-ed-508r.html
http://www.lisamcpherson.org/scans/GO_intel_actions_1969.pdf
http://www.lisamcpherson.org/scans/
http://www.ezlink.com/~perry/CoS/OSANWO/

So, for everyone's interest, who can think with the above Hubbard OSA doctrines, that's the reason why I don't "debrief" to you anymore.

What Scientology has to do is STOP all of Hubbard's disgraceful tactics and rules.

David Miscavige needs to allow Exec Strata and WDC to reform, and the "Eval Corps" and let them survey, and consciously decide dropping those Hubbard's doctrines that are at odds with the world and make life such a predicament for Scientologists (staff and public).

To really reform Scientology, means the movement members have to become aware that they HAVE NO Exec Strata and NO WDC members figuring out how to handle the BIG problems:

a) Xenu and Body Thetans theology has to become NOT a penalty SP act for members to discuss amongst themselves or to the public at large anymore. All Hubbard SP act penalty rules regarding the confidential tech and material have to just all be cancelled.

b) Cancel SP declaring (declare full amnesty of ALL past SP declares), and allow free communication again, that would instantly be the best thing Scientology could do.

And if Scientology wants to really get some good PR, then

c) Open up Sea Org reserves and PAY in full all refunds requested by people who want ALL their money back!

Regarding your cheap intell gathering work for OSA, that brings to mind one more suggestion:

d) Disband OSA. Re-post the staff from OSA to more religious-like positions somewhere in the movement!

Let your average Scientologists act freely like Billy Sheehan! That's a BIG start! Billy Sheehan is a good guy! He sat right next to Tory Christman and talked to Mark Bunker, both arch "enemies" of Scientology.

http://tinyurl.com/2rfkm5

Let all Scientologists NOT be bashed around by the worst Hubbard doctrines that are going on, a-d above!

Chuck Beatty
Ex-Sea Org (lifetime staffer, 1975-2003)
Flag Dec 1975-Jun 1983 (TTC, Sup, Word Clearer, D of T, etc.)
Int Base 1983-1984 (Routing Forms Pjt)
Snr HCO Int in the FB in LA 1984-87 Re-Training (Int and LA) 87-88
Int Training Org, LA 88 (Sec Checker Sup)
LRH Tech Research and Comps, CMO Int, (Sept 88-Feb 89)
Int RPF (Feb-Mar 89)
PAC RPF (Mar-May 89)
Int Training Org (May-Sept 89) (Admin Sup)
INCOMM Sep 89-Sept 90 (Routing Forms Pjt)
INCOMM Sept 90-May92 (Computer Room LA & Int)
ASI May 92-Dec95 (Computer Room, In-Training Esto)
Decks Int (Dec 95-Jun 96)
Int RPF (Jun 96-Nov 2000)
PAC RPF (Nov 2000-Mar2003)
Routed out March 29, 2003.
Join XSO and network to old Sea Org friends:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/XSO/
Chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckbeatty77/
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05205/542899.stm
http://tinyurl.com/38ptz8
http:[email protected]/
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=32959922&size=l
I live in Pittsburgh, anyone feel free to call
me anytime: 412-260-1170
http://tinyurl.com/38ptz8 buffalo video
http://tinyurl.com/ywhgaf buffalo poster

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology, de.soc.weltanschauung.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com"
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 22:10:50 -0800 (PST)
Local: Mon, Feb 25 2008 1:10 am
Subject: Billy Sheehan, read Barbara Schwarz' threads on ARS and please comment......

[addressed to Barbara Schwarz, supposedly ex DSA from a German org vintage early 1980s, and constant relayer of the OSA (Hubbard intell gathering/smearing/agent provacateur tactics) party line here on ARS.]

[To Barbara Schwarz], You're a "stable terminal" here on ARS Barbara, something not missed by long term ex Scientology management staffers who are immediately suspicious of your modus operendi.

You act at times so irrational, the immediate question ex staff have with you, is WHY is OSA allowing an unqualified ex staff member like yourself to act like you do. So you are perceived as NOT being influenced by OSA to either do what you do, or to stop doing what you are doing.

Thus my conclusion is that you appear to be similar in character to the insane US Army Colonel who is a movie character in the movie called "Apocolypse Now". In that movie there is an unsanctioned renegade Colonel Kurtz who on his own has his own band of men and is fighting against the US's enemies without support from the US.

You appear to fight OSA's and LRH's fight, without OSA's support, and you appear to violate lots of rules official Scientologists would not dare publicly violate.

By relaying the Religious Freedom Watch "party line" which ALL ex Scientology staffers who were around at all to know the smearing that Scientology engages in, you immediately look like an obvious OSA helper, even if you are not one officially.

You are either a witting or unwitting Colonel Kurtz for Scientology.

I recommend highly ex Scientologists and existing Scientologists like Billy Sheehan read the following Hubbard's Guardian's Office vintige material and more recent OSA material carefully:

http://www.xenu.net/archive/go/agiadmin/agiadm1.htm
http://www.xenu.net/archive/go/ic_conts.htm
http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/cult/osa-int-ed-508r.html
http://www.lisamcpherson.org/scans/GO_intel_actions_1969.pdf
http://www.lisamcpherson.org/scans/
http://www.ezlink.com/~perry/CoS/OSANWO/

Chuck Beatty
Ex-Sea Org (lifetime staffer, 1975-2003)
Flag Dec 1975-Jun 1983 (TTC, Sup, Word Clearer, D of T, etc.)
Int Base 1983-1984 (Routing Forms Pjt)
Snr HCO Int in the FB in LA 1984-87 Re-Training (Int and LA) 87-88
Int Training Org, LA 88 (Sec Checker Sup)
LRH Tech Research and Comps, CMO Int, (Sept 88-Feb 89)
Int RPF (Feb-Mar 89)
PAC RPF (Mar-May 89)
Int Training Org (May-Sept 89) (Admin Sup)
INCOMM Sep 89-Sept 90 (Routing Forms Pjt)
INCOMM Sept 90-May92 (Computer Room LA & Int)
ASI May 92-Dec95 (Computer Room, In-Training Esto)
Decks Int (Dec 95-Jun 96)
Int RPF (Jun 96-Nov 2000)
PAC RPF (Nov 2000-Mar2003)
Routed out March 29, 2003.
Join XSO and network to old Sea Org friends:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/XSO/
Chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckbeatty77/
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05205/542899.stm
http://tinyurl.com/38ptz8
http:[email protected]/
http://www.flickr.com/photo

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com"
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 14:08:07 -0800 (PST)
Local: Wed, Mar 5 2008 5:08 pm
Subject: The dark side of top ranks Scientology staff life at Gilman Hot Springs. If Tom Cruise wants to play some Scientology real life drama....

If Tom Cruise wants to do some good, he should play David Miscavige, and let Samuel Jackson play Jesse Prince, in a production of the history of people's lives at Gilman Hot Springs, the top ranks facility that oversees all the networks of Scientology staff organizations.

In my opinion, the closest moment in Scientology's history that might have put Scientology on a par with the Jonestown tragedy, would have been the moment where if Jesse had lost control and gunned down Miscavige at the Int base: http://tinyurl.com/23kq4w listen specifically to the stretch of Jesse's account from minute 5:43 to minute 8:22. Jesse talks about the incident that led up to the showdown incident standing in front of David Miscavige, asking David "What do you want to do now!"

There's been some real drama inside the top ranks of the Scientology movement over the years.

How to get this on film, so that the public knows about these moments, and exposing and de-fusing Scientology so that the stuff stops, I hope someday Tom Cruise sees the real scene at the top ranks of Scientology.

David Miscavige is the one who backed down with Jesse, per Jesse's story. David did demonstrate some good sense and averted a tragedy. And Jesse also.

I have so wished that somehow this incident could be portrayed in a movie.

I think it is a defining moment that represents possibly the worst extreme of being caught up in the Hubbard web of rules and penalties that the top ranks staff of Scientology will perpetrate on one another, driven to those dark places by Hubbard's rules and by their own one up man ship machoness.

The last 5 years of defectors from Gilman Hot Springs speaking about certain incidents of David Miscavige's petty violence and Miscavige's encouraging petty violence amongst top ranked staff to one another, the whole psychological pressure situation at Gilman Hot Springs NEEDS media exposure.

The violence streak at the top of Scientology has to stop.

I urge all former Int Base staff particularly who can expose the most recent petty violence at Gilman Hot Springs to speak up!

If we get enough material out in the open, maybe a movie of Int Base life can be done that will somehow jar Scientology somehow to permanently cause an end to this top ranks pressure cooker stuff that periodically takes hold of life at the top of the Scientology movement.

Chuck Beatty
ex Scientology staffer (1975-2003)
412-260-1170 Pittsburgh, USA (anyone call me anytime!)
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckbeatty77/
http://tinyurl.com/295khy
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05205/542899.stm
http://tinyurl.com/38ptz8 buffalo video
http://tinyurl.com/ywhgaf buffalo poster

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com"
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 10:27:10 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sat, Mar 8 2008 1:27 pm
Subject: Re: Not sure if this has been posted on yet, but Arnie's site has the Jeff Hawkins interview, is just a HUGE detailed articulate description of TOP RANKS Scientology... unprecedented briefing interview JEFF HAWKINS

On Mar 8, 8:18�am, Tom Newton wrote:

Tom Newton [identity that acts out the Hubbard counter attack tactics to the letter, way beyond what this identity would really be like, if their identity were really who they say they are, my conclusion is this is an OSA volunteer plausibly deniable operative, since this person has failed to phone me and chat like a normal citizen would, and like normal citizens posting on the internet DO DO! - Chuck Beatty, 412-260-1170 Pittsbrugh]

> On 2008-03-08, chuckbeatty77 @aol.com wrote:

> >http://www.lermanet.com/audio/jeffhawkins.mp3

> [Tom Newton says:]That's a website that claims to be the work of a citizen's group fighting corruption. In fact, it is the work of a lone nut who has convinced himself that Scientology is the source of all EVIL in the world and must be destroyed at any cost. Anyone who belieives anything found there, without validating it using other sources, is a fool. Because the man proves his basic dishonesty with the name of the website, which is a deception. The first thing they should do is make sure they have an authentic recording of Jeff Hawkins' voice and make sure that it matches the one on the mp3. Any child with their mommy's computer can make an mp3.

[Chuck Beatty said:] This has a huge amount of historical insider information. This is just excellent material.

[Tom Newton said: Or it may be fiction.

[Chuck Beatty said:] If anyone should do a book, Jeff Hawkins could write one well. His marketing background I think would be in good use, he used to be the editor of the Advance Mag, for years and years. He covers his almost 40 years in the movement. He is incredibly articulate. He details all the David Miscavige abuse.

[Tom Newton said:] If it is him, he will be telling people what he wants them to believe for his own reasons. You can't assume it's true just because he says it. Duh. It would be very reasonable to assume that you are the guy who owns the website you are referring to above. Your dishonesty is a matter public record. Tom The Truth will set you free: gmail [DOT] com | http://www.sethcenter.com

[Chuck Beatty says:] Tom,

You should try to converse personally with ex members, get into normal good roads good weather communication, to see how down to earth ex senior members are.

Call me, I'll give you phone numbers and email addresses of all those going publc, so you can call, and chat with these people and see how normal they are.

Scientology tactics demonize their ex members when those ex members exercise their normal citizen rights to speak about their lives.

Hubbard's blueprint rules tell Scientologists to put their heads in the ground and only listen to the ad hominem attack propaganda that you yourself emit.

Treating ex members like normal people will gain Scientology respect.

I asked my Catholic cousins, if a Catholic was ex communicated, would other Catholics be penalized for communicating to the excommunicated Catholic, and of course the answer was no.

Scientology has rules that enforce ad hominem attacks on people who criticize the valid faults of Hubbard and Scientology.

Scientologists are trapped in their Hubbard system of rules.

Scientologists are forced to demonize critics of Hubbard's bad ideas.

Scientologists are heavily penalized for demonstrating any type of critical attitude towards Hubbard's bad ideas.

That's Scientology's built in problem.

How to evolve and adapt, is historically what other religions have done, around their disgraceful similar rules.

a) Amnesty all SP declares of the past.
b) Declare no more SPs
c) Refund in FULL all ex members wishing FULL refunds.
d) Be normal, like other established religions, in being tolerant of
their ex members who quit and speak about the abuses inside the
Scientology movement.
e) Evolve, adapt, and cease abusing members and staff (includes ALL
abusive rules and setups, including the RPF).

Do that, and Scientology would "win."

Hubbard's penalty rules and setups are the problem!

The problem is NOT and never has been the ex members who expose the abuses and the bad Hubbard behavior and bad Hubbard rules!

Chuck Beatty
ex Scientology staffer (1975-2003)
412-260-1170 Pittsburgh, USA

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology, de.soc.weltanschauung.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com"
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 19:08:05 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sat, Mar 15 2008 10:08 pm
Subject: Re: L. Ron Hubbard loved even his enemies but did not allow them to step all over him! You can't do your job anymore, y
ou can't save the world when you allow your enemies to destroy your work.

On Mar 15, 9:03�pm, PeaceTrainMakesStopatARS...@gmail.com wrote:

> The hardest task one can have is to continue to love his
> fellows despite all reasons he should not. And the true sign of sanity
> and greatness is to so continue.
>L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard was incapable of accepting valid criticism.

He was a fiction writer who abhorred editor criticism.

He was NEVER a researcher who even for one second was part of any type of peer group review, like legitimate researchers in the world.

Hubbard was a PR man for himself, circus PR style (he was apprenticed for carnival PR work he tells in one of the Welcome to the Sea Org tape lectures) and he later learned to deal with criticism using intelligence agency counter propagandizing tactics.

This line you give, "Hubbard loved his enemies" is indeed what Hubbard loftily claimed was his view, but what I noticed in reading the books done about Hubbard, I found no history of Hubbard even standing up to college professors taking his ideas to task.

In fact I recommend you read Dr. J.A. Winter's "Dianetics: A Doctor's Report" for valid criticism of LRH that LRH NEVER dealt with from that book, which was published in May 1951, around the time of the first anniversary of DMSMH.

Read what Dr. Winter says about LRH and LRH's ideas!

LRH was never in the same league as legitimate mental health professionals, and all LRH did was sell LRH's own hyper critical views on the mental health field when they dismissed LRH's ideas and "research."

Read Dr. Winter's book!

Read Russell Miller's book: "Bare Faced Messiah"

From the get-go, LRH just was not of the same league as the men and women who were seriously into the tradition of continued research into mental health problems.

And now, Scientology is stuck with LRH's outlandish ideas!!!

All Scientology members today are led to accept that all humankind, every one of us, are infested with "body thetans" in the tens of thousands, infesting ALL of our bodies, and that only OT levels 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 will allow us to rid ourselves of these tens of thousands of "body thetans" infesting us all.

L. Ron Hubbard's theory that every member of humankind is infested with tens of thousands of "body thetans" is now public domain knowledge.

Official Scientology has no acceptable response today, since Hubbard left the movement no way to legitimately respond and defend these ideas.

All other people on earth have to defend their ideas.

These are serious ideas, and demand discussion, but Hubbard put "body thetans" discussion out of bounds to Scientology members.

That is one of Scientology's biggest problems.

No official members is allowed to discuss "body thetans" infesting all of us and causing us our problems.

I explained to the anonymous demonstrators at Buffalo today, 15 March 2008, that inside the Buffalo Org, most staff working at the Buffalo Org will have to wait until the "Universe Corps" comes to Buffalo to deliver the staff their OT levels, and then the staff will finally even learn about "body thetans" infesting all humankind, every person on earth.

Scientology's code of silence about Hubbard's theory about us all being infested with "body thetans" is a mind crippling topic that STOPS communication with Scientologists who are severely penalized with Hubbard's antiquated rules making it a SERIOUS penalty if Scientologists publicly discuss "body thetans" infesting everyone, and discussing that Xenu is just the space alien leader who committed the huge numbers of murders on earth 75 million years ago resulting in the huge surplus of bodiless thetans who now roam the earth and hitchhike, supposedly, on all our bodies today, the "body thetans"!!

Scientology is stuck with Hubbard's bad ideas, using Hubbard's bad system of dealing with these ideas.

The "body thetans" theory/theology is out of bounds for discussion.

THAT needs addressing!

We are NOT covered in "body thetans!"

There is NO proof of our infestation with "body thetans" and really, the world should be told the straight facts about L. Ron Hubbard's theory of our human mental predicament.

We are NOT infested with "body thetans!" And there is NO way Scientology is gonna win any legitimate support for the straight supposed beliefs ("research") of L. Ron Hubbard leading Hubbard to claim in the OT 3 and OT 5 theory bulletins, that we are covered in "body thetans."

Okay? I mean, look at your movement's situation, how you are crippled from normal discourse, due to LRH's rules and penalties for preventing normal discussion of the theory about "body thetans."

This PR line you stated is a deflection off of LRH's outlandish unprovable ideas about humankind's mental/spiritual predicament.

I will take psychiatry/psychology over "body thetans" infestation any day!

The CCHR dodge doesn't prevent Hubbard's ideas from being exposed.

Hubbard hasn't tried to prove to contemporary mental health researchers the existence of "body thetans."

If LRH bothered to be public about his researches, and PROVE a few of his outlandish ideas, things would be a whole lot different.

There would be no need for LRH to have formed CCHR and OSA do propagandizing distraction work!

LRH should have just been a normal researcher and proven his ideas in the public domain like the other legitimate researchers working in any area of scientific research.

Instead, we have CCHR engaging in full time ad hominem ad nauseum psychiatry attacks.

What the hell is that for?

Why not prove Hubbard's "body thetans" theory/theology openly, and win the world over to Hubbard's ideas!

Scientology expends too much energy fighting and smearing those that criticize Hubbard's outlandish unprovable ideas.

LRH couldn't prove body thetans, it's not provable, and all the other wild outlandish ideas LRH had all these decades, unprovable every one, so instead LRH created all the church defensive counter propagandizing tactics to deflect off LRH's unprovable outlandish ideas!

That's the disappointing final straw for long term members, when they realize the Bridge to Total Freedom is full of unprovable ideas and NO results, no "body thetans" are coming out and validating Hubbard for him finding and "freeing" all these "body thetans" who were stuck in amnesia trances in our bodies!

Chuck Beatty
ex Scientology staffer (1975-2003)
412-260-1170 Pittsburgh, USA (anyone call me anytime!)
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckbeatty77/
http://tinyurl.com/295khy
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05205/542899.stm
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