OCMB Post #10
Posted on Sunday, August 01, 2004 - 9:04 am:
Dear Galileo, Hello, ex-Scn'o here.
The antidote to that, is reading. While I was on the RPF, which was for my final many years in the Sea Org, before I routed out, I read and read and read all of the Encyclopedias in the RPF course room. My biggest "win" in my reading was an Encyclopedia Britanica article on "Mysticism" which in summary said many mystics have tried all sorts of techniques and religions, but few ever made it to the high spirtual states. At that point, I almost became an agnostic, and have been headed strongly towards atheism since. After leaving the Sea Org, and being allowed to read any book I wanted, I've read several recent books by popular science writers, and lawyers, and really top-notch journalists, and there are SO MANY MORE intelligent people outside of Scn than are inside it, and there are SO MANY more intelligent people than LRH, more common sense, the best antidote to the Scn false data is read and read and read, all you can about life. Check out the best-sellers, in non-fiction, check out magazines like "New York Review of Books", "The New Yorker", "The Atlantic Monthly", "Harpers", read the Sunday "New York Times" and all its many parts. I did, and that's what mostly handled all the BS "fears" LRH instills in Scn followers about the "wog world". Expose yourself to some intelligent human beings, and that'll be the antidote to the Scn false data about how bad the world is, and what your horrible "future" will be. It is all LRH's opinion, and is not proven fact. If LRH were really right, the intelligent people in the world would be falling all over themselves in support. But that is so not the case. Intelligent people have done a lot better and more thorough, and more honest research than LRH's. I never met a single person who could convice me they were OT in the definitions in the Tech Dictionary. I met no one who could go exterior with 360 perception at will for any length of time.
Education, reading about life, however you pursue reading, will help more in my opinion, than years and years of auditing.
In my time since being out of the Sea Org, and I've no desire to do any auditing of any kind, either church sanctioned or "squirrel", the best answer to the questions you have about life, and the future, is to expose yourself to the knowledge that is out there. It is imposing, and easily sidetracking, but there is a far greater wealth of knowledge outside of LRH's material, than anything Scn has to offer. That's my 2 cents on "fear after leaving Scn".
OCMB Post #11
Posted on Sunday, August 01, 2004 - 10:31 am:
RE: LRH coming back.
I think these three references are the official viewpoint on LRH coming back or not. He has sort of left matters up to those holding the fort. There are no secret advices from him to top management, that I saw, and I had pretty decent access to all advices, and read LOTS of them.
Anyways, I heard nothing and read nothing about specifics about how LRH was to return, and reinstall himself (other than the David Mayo advice, asking David Mayo to hold the fort tech wise for him till he came back). Best uplines sources to ask would be David Miscavage, Norman Starkey, Greg Wilhere, Shelly Miscavage, Anne Broeker (of course not unless one of them defects, ae we likely to hear from them on this matter). So I think the best source on what LRH's intentions are and if he's coming back would be Pat Broeker.
OCMB Post #12
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2004 - 9:11 am:
Re: Serious answer to the question of how C of S Int'l makes its $. The part that makes the most money for the C of S Int'l, each week, has most consistently been the FSO (Clearwater, Mecca of Standard Tech). FSO over the years is the top income making sector. When I was able to see the weekly stats for FSO GI (gross income), it was 1 million to 2 million $ per week. Far bigger each week than any other sector. As any former Int staff member knows,(and even middle management staff -- now called FLO which means Flag Liaison Office, and FLO used to be the FCB -- Flag Command Bu, which used to be the FB, which is plain old middle management now -- HGB building management in downtown Hollywood) who remembers the weekly stat evolutions, and the stat analyses that the WDC members each have to do for their sectors, weekly, knows that the FSO sector has traditionally been the biggest income maker for the C of S Int'l. The sectors include WISE, SMI, SO orgs (meaning AOSHEU, AOSHUK, AOSH ANZO, AOLA, ASHOD & F, CC Int--because it is so big, and it's so much bigger than all the other CC's), FSO is its own sector, Class V orgs are a sector, ABLE (which includes Narconon, Applied Scholastics) is its own sector. Each of the sectors makes weekly income. FSO is the tops. IAS is NOT managed by Int, nor anyone else. IAS collects straight donations, and their income is not connected to the C of S. The head of IAS is Janet McLaughlin (used to be Janet Light, used to be Janet Stevens). Janet was a full fledged oldtime CMO messenger, but never served LRH, but she used to be a topnotch CMO Unit Commanding Officer, and a very good one, meaning a good person. She's one of those topnotch dedicated top Scientologists, that is trusted by the top Int guys (meaning Miscavage, Yaeger, etc.) to do the right thing as far as what IAS does with its funding. I have no direct knowledge, but can extrapolate that she writes the IAS strategies and programs,based on being briefed by Miscavage of what originally was needed and wanted of IAS and today if she revises the strategy for IAS she gets it okayed (or whatever language is used to ensure it is legal) by Miscavage or by someone he designates. There is NO C of S Int'l vias between Janet and Miscavage. There is a pretty huge amount of IAS money accumulating, which can be figured out by taking the back pages of the IMPACT magazine, and adding up all the donation categories, and people listed under each category, and you can figure out the total amount IAS has raised. Your total will still be short due to past donaters to IAS whose names have been removed from the IMPACT mag's donator's lists. I think IAS donations all go straight into IAS accounts (in the US, into US accounts, and rest of the world, they end up in Luxemburg is my guess; but I suspect the US accounts $ gets transferred to the Luxemburg accounts in the end though, I would guess). IAS $ doesn't go to the C of S, it's always been separate, and has NO connection with C of S, so that in case C of S goes down, IAS $ won't get pulled down with it. At Int, on the stats available on computer, I NEVER saw IAS stats. IAS stats were NOT on any Int (and of course not any middle management computers). These are very rough, but pretty close to the real scene answers to the question of what's the biggest source of $ for the church. Best to further read the What Is Scientology book which lays out the various C of S Int'l sectors. At CMO Int, there is a "WDC Member" over each sector, and they work to ensure each sector is manned up with competent executives, to ensure that each sector succedes. The C of S Int'l is no minor organization. It is very extensively thought out, and has tremendous organizational guidelines, LRH policies, LRH advices, dozens and dozens of programs, strategies, and years and years of experienced personel in each sector manning the exec positions. The bulk of the top guys in the Sea Org, the guys manning the WDC office at CMO Int, Exec Strata, and the heads of the sectors themselves (all the various sector orgs), are all generally Sea Org members who have been execs or been in those sectors for 5 years minimally. At this point in the Sea Org's history, there are far fewer greenies at the top of the sectors. It is NOT a minor thing to try to pull down the organization at this point. I don't see personally how it can be done, by attacking the organization or the people in it. How Scn will grind to a halt, will be accomplished in the public arena. In my many years in Scn (meaning in the Sea Org), I've not seen a lot of really top notch (from wog standards, meaning no Ivy League college types, no Fortune 500 company execs) people TRYING to get into the executive ranks of Scn. The whole intelligensia (if you know what that word means) class in the western world, basically shuns Scn. The fact that it has not CAUGHT ON, is Scn's slow death knell (meaning the bell rung at a funeral slowly). Scn has simply and plainly NOT caught on. LRH tried to bypass the cold shoulder he received from the western world's brightest minds, and LRH has continued going straight to the less educated common man. My belief is that the more educated a person becomes, the more an individual is exposed to brighter minds than LRH's, then a person (who may have been in Scn for years and years), can see their way OUT. Scn will fail simply because it has NOT YET attracted the top minds on this planet, and it never will. It does not have the intellectual base with which to do so. While on the Int RPF, the funniest complaint I heard from busted Int execs, was the problem of coming up with the hot good news items that could be read off at the events by Miscavage, and how hard it was to come up with hot news items some years. There is so much to the C of S Int'l, so much going on right now as we speak. Right now the summer events are just over (held in LA). Auditor's day is coming up in Sept. SO Day may or may not be held, depending on this past years production. Again this last year, at LRH's Birthday, the birthday game awards were not given out to the best org and best cont etc. That is something new in recent years. Normally each March 13, there is a big listing of the top orgs in each sector, and awards ceremonies at Flag. I don't know why, I have no insider data on why the details of the top orgs in each sector, why these facts and statistics were not published or shown. It is an outpoint.
Also at events, when there is an ABSENCE of other speakers besides Miscavage, that generally means the other top execs are NOT doing well, meaning they screwed up in some way, or there is some extentuating circumstance (like sickness, injury), but mainly the lack of other exec speakers is due to screwups either by those execs or in their areas. Usually times of great success in the C of S Int'l overall, and when Miscavage is happy, he shares the wealth of good news, and has the top execs spread all the good news with him. When there is plenty of good news easily relayable, then Miscavage has no problem letting the other top execs deliver it.
The Scn public are pretty wise, the oldtimers that is. The top Scn parishoners have absorbed years of events (Scn routinely each year does the following events minimally: March 13, May 9, Maiden voyage events/summer events in LA, Auditor's Day, IAS Event, New Year's). Then CC Int has a big event each year in LA. Each Saint Hill sized org gets it's local area celebration event. Each new building renovated, each new ABLE entity, like Arrowhead, each other type of entity, like the Human Rights facility in Belgium, each warrants and receives an opening event. Each year a certain number of those national and int'l events absorb Miscavage's and top church exec's time, and are priorities around which a lot of other yearly church programs and major releases revolve. The church is extensively coordinated at Int level and middle management level. The church continues to invest and improve their buildings for orgs around the world, and each sector's strategies ultimately coincide with the opening of new facilities for that sector's activities. I am not obsessed with stopping or warning people to stay out of Scn. Only because someone warned me, someone I respect more than anyone I met in my 2 dozen plus years in Scn. So I personally don't think telling someone to stay out of Scn will keep them out. It didn't keep me from wasting my adult life in Scn. Only thng that got me out, was me myself developing my reading ability sufficiently, so I could finally spot the holes in LRH's logic, and determine for myself that he was NOT the most important person on earth, and that his teachings are not the end-all, be-all, of knowledge on earth. (In fact most of his teachings are bland re-wordings, and not properly credited, of common sense knowledge.) As I don't have any value for the "high level" knowldege, (OT levels and NOTs, which I've since read all the ins and outs, thankyou to all those who finally were able to post what those materials are all about). In my opinion, from what I observed, there is no proof of the upper level materials and "pasttrack" incidents supposedly that have occurred. It is really "faith". If if proves to be true, I doubt it will be exactly like LRH said. It might be wildly different. People's memories are pretty sketchy, I observed. I lost my faith in LRH and his teachings. I'd recommend rather that a person read widely, become very literate, read and read until they get a real grip on what is going on in the world. Go to college if you can, and if not, then read broadly and widely. (Good newspapers, magazines, bestsellers, internet sites.) Scn has NOT taken off. It is fizzling of its own. LRH's teachings are simply do NOT make that big of an dent in people's lives on a broad enough basis, to overshadow more desirable events and items in people's lives. In otherwords there are many TV programs and movies, and books, and other entertainment items that are far more interesting, and engaging than the Div 6 services that people are enticed into Scn with. In competition with other things offered in the wog world, a trip to Starbucks for me, for a cup of good coffee, and a great pastry, is more desirable than any Div 6 or Scn Academy delivered course I ever did in Scn. Maybe only the Primary Rundown course (looking up about 5 thousand words in dictionaries for 7 months) and the Key to Life course (looking up another several hundred "small" words) probably produced the best "gains" I got in my over 2 dozen years in Scn. When I finally looked around, the truth is Scn is barely keeping up with itself, and it is certainly NOT taking off.
Back to the point of how much $ the church makes, I think it best to get someone recently defected who has seen the stats recently on the amounts the varous sectors are making. Either an Int level staff or someone who had access at the Hollywood middle management level, they'd know too. I gave above what I recalled.
OCMB Post #13
Posted on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 8:48 am:
Dear Don Carlo, I think you should write some fiction, about Scn. Your material and imagination is very clever, and though I haven't seen this recent play about LRH, I think you could probably do better, funnier stuff that it. I am serious. I think with your post above, you have enough understanding to really skewer Ssn. Maybe someone good at cartoons, working with you, you together could do an underground comic book on Scn.
Re Miscavage. His wife, Shelly, is his assistant, her post is COB's Asst. His two right hand men are Greg Wilhere (Class 12, been around since the Flagship days, was CO DC org, CO FSO, CO ITO and at ASI while Miscavage was there, plus way back on the ship Greg was LRH's butler/asst so was very close to LRH at times), and Marty Rathbun (I know less about Marty, see Jesse Prince's taped transcripts about Marty). Both do Miscavage's biggings at the base. Miscavage's brother, Ronnie, was busted back in the mid 90's as MEI (Marketing Exec Int). For years Ronnie was always in the limelight at events, giving the latest Marketing news and strategies. Ronnie is older that David. Ronnie was a gymnist, and physically could whoop David, and they had a running competition, but David is a darker person, willing to be more thirsty, so it is hard to say who would win in an all-out scruffle between them. One funny story, I can relate, is when I was uplines, and I sometimes looked over at the basketball court, on Sea Org day, back in the early 90's, like 93 or 94, and I watched Miscavage playing hoops, I saw how Greg Wilhere, and Marty Rathbun, were letting Miscavage shoot without really trying to block him. Miscavage is about 5 inches shorter than Greg, and Greg used to be a quarterback at Villanova Univ, and Greg's a college level athelete, and could have snuffed Miscavage anytime he wanted. But the sad/funny part it was like the junior exec letting the boss beat the junior exec in golf, even though the junior exec could have buried the boss. Same with Marty, he could whip Miscavage at basketball, but was cutting him slack. Re the new generation of SO males, it is sort of interesting. For years, they looked up to Miscavage for how to act, and not only the males, but many of the SO women too act like tough SOBs, in MIscavage's footsteps. I'm sure Ronnie Miscavage and David are still pretty close though. But my data is only up until 1996. My guess is that longrange, I believe that some of the younger, second generation (meaning sons and daughters of Scntologists or SO members) will be the next regime to take over from Miscavage's generation of leaders currently at the top. If Miscavage were to disappear suddenly, then Greg Wilhere or maybe Norman Starkey would take over as head, is my guess. Heads of higher orgs are usually filled by people who have held Commanding Officer positions in the next lower orgs. There are about 20-30 top level guys who have been Commanding Officers of either Gold, CMO Int, or middle management orgs, or CLOs or large SO Orgs or large Saint Hill size orgs. The CO level type Sea Org members would be the pool from which MIscavage's replacement, when that time comes about, would be drawn from. To replace him, the person would certainly be someone uplines, at the base at Hemet. That isn't going to happen anytime soon that I can see though. It's going to be years. (Again, his brother was busted from MEI in the mid 90's and hasn't surfaced in the events in recent years, and his brother is NOT a contender for replacing Miscavage as top dog in the church.)
The cliques at the Int base are very unique. There are all sorts of interesting relationships.
RTC is the top clique at the base. CMO Int is next down the ladder. Then is Exec Strata. Then Gold is the lowest org at the base. When I was there in the 80's and early 90's, I hated to see the Gold staff getting dumped on in general. And it is funny that if CMO Int staff or RTC staff really screw up badly, and get busted, they end up working in Gold. And often they end up in the ground unit in Gold, which has some former hotshot RTC and "celeb" type SO members in it. The whole Int base echelons (RTC, CMO Int, Exec Strata, Gold) are in constant ebb and flow, as people get busted, and then slowly rise up again.
Since LRH said he gave a person lots of chances, the busted staff at the Base can always move back up, and many do move back up. It is such an active group, like few others. Its mindset is unique. There is always a tremendous amount tension and all are trying to predict which way the wind is blowing. You can be having one of the liveliest discussions with someone, and the next moment that person is cowling in submissiveness to some exec who comes on the scene with airs of preposterous pretentious "altitude" of their higher post. There is ingrained prejudices, echelon to echelon, sometimes based on LRHs own remarks in advices to the higher ecehelons.
Anyways, there is complex power game going on at the Int base, all the time, Miscavage unquestionably and unchallenged at the top, and RTC at the top, CMO Int next, Exec Strata next, and Gold staff at the bottom. And Gold staff are about 1/3 made up (might be even more) of ex RTC and ex CMO Int and ex Exec Strata staff. That's a rough idea of the top Sea Org base, and the personnel pool from which the person will come who ultimately someday replaces Miscavage.
Don Carlo, if you could hook up with a recent former RTC staff, or former CMO Int staff member from the base, you could get some interesting material for your comic scenarios. Sorry I don't know any, but maybe somebody will turn up.
FACTNET CE POST #3
Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 02:39 pm
Just a thought about Scientology's future. I'm a freeloader, was in the Sea Org 25 plus years, just got out within the last 2 years. Been at FSO, Flag Bu, CMO Int, and another high level org. Been in the RPF at Int and at PAC.
I am getting all the Scn mail from ASHO and AOLA, and so keep track of the "releases". It seems the releases are aimed at improving auditing quality at this time. I never had really good auditing, except when audited by 1 top RTC auditor, and one long sec check when I was trying to get out of the RPF, in that case I got audited by a pretty good auditor. The tape series I saw most recently released this summer, from the Ship events, covered "auditing presence" and "auditing altitude", which are some higher level auditor skills, relating to an auditor's "beingness". My post here is mainly for experienced, trained ex-Scn people. Here now is my observation. After going over what the trend is in releases, and looking back over what's been the trend of releases over the years, it looks like Miscavage, and the top RTC and top CMO Int people, are themselves getting more and more aware of the really fundamental technical skills of auditing, that LRH has written and lectured about for decades on and off. What I think is happening, is that the top management people themselves are getting the technical background, and learning the really key basics of what it takes to have an auditor succede in session with someone else. This is in contrast with the horrendously brutal behaviour of Miscavage and top management people in the 80's when gang-sec-checking was occuring, spitting in staff members' faces (even while the staff member was sitting in the "pc" chair in an investigatory sec check). So gradually Miscvage and the other non-tech trained execs at the top, are themselves getting the tech basics, that really make auditing "work" (which in my opinion it is simply the compassion of one individual truly listening and understanding, what another person says, I concur that there is benefit being sympathetically and compassionately being understood by another human being, but that is the extent that auditing works, I disagree that the "processes" do anything further--what I'm refering to is the two parts of the "magic" of communication talked about by Hubbard in his "Basic Auditing Series" technical bulletins. Hubbard basically says you first have to get into communication with someone, and then get the process to work on him, that's the long and short of auditing. I only think the first part of auditing works, but not that it is some sort of unique activity only to Scn. Most everyone finds really good friends, and the conversations with friends are more therapeutic than most auditing, if the auditor never got into communication with the person, and this conclusion summarizes why I failed to achieve much in the over 120 pc folders of auditing. Back to the recent Scn releases, when I read about the recent Hubbard lecture tapes being released, and this series addresses auditing presence and auditor altitude, that was precisely what was lacking in 98% of my own 25 years plus auditing. And I concluded this while I was being trained on the RPF as a "co-auditor" myself. This is one of failures of the RPF, because you are "twinned" up with someone else, and basically bludgeon each other with mutual out-auditor basics (meaning exactly what this new tape series released this summer 2004, addresses). (As a further aside, in the new RPF series, #0 or #1 in the series, LRH says the only failure of the RPF failure, is a failure to handle the case of the RPFer, which directly applied in my case, I can instantly concur that I had no one of comparable understanding and openness to the rest of the ideas of intelligent people in life, as a twin on my many years on the RPF, thus all my auditing was a failure.) From an insider "evaluation" point of view, it goes back to out-KSW #1, not knowing and applying LRH's tech correctly. Auditor basics are that vital to Scn working. But this is not all I want to comment on. I only bring this up as a barrier that existing Scn top management has to overcome even to comply with what LRH says needs to be complied with to make Scn work. Even if this proper auditing altitude and presence is accomplished, that's not all.
Now that I said this, my final directly related point, from my 25 years plus experience trying my "dedicated" best to get up the Bridge to "Total Freedom" (see Gerry Armstrong's new "SP site and the "Total Freedom" hypocrisy--read LRH's contradictory major statements regarding "Total Freedom"), my final point is that even if the top management guys all get up to this full understanding of the tech, like LRH had himself about his own tech (qualified by the fact that he changed his mind a significant number of times over the years causing consternations inherently for the LRH Tech Research & Compilations personnel in CMO Int who've daily wrestled for years figuring out what LRH's final intentions were on particular techincal points--these guys are the ones who have to compile tech issues in LRH's name, bless Dan Koon, who truly is one of the greatest persons I've ever met, Ken Rose can vouch that Dan Koon is the main tech compiler at Int). Sorry, my point is that even with this increased tech understanding, at this new level of understanding of auditing basics, the top management guys will now move to the next phase that LRH himself butted up against. How to get the really intelligent people into Scn. They won't make it, there is no one in the church with sufficient "altitude" intellectually to get those more intelligent people into session, and that's the next real barrier. LRH was a dropout, who spit on the more intelligent people he felt had failed at handling the world. So LRH with his "researches" and "Tech" bypassed everyone, and offers his tech to the world. To those intelligent folks actually running and groping with handling the world, they can be fooled for a few moments, but once they absorb more of the full breadth of LRH's writings, get turned off.
The vanity and arrogance of LRH even in Keeping Scientology #1 issue, is enough to put off most intelligent people. Anyways, again to my point of even posting this message. My 25 plus year conclusion is that Scn will never reach and never attract the intelligent people, due to no one in Scn who themselves is credible enough and broadly understanding fully of the upper level of intelligent people (lawyers, judges, govt legislators, main line historians, scholars, in general the high level professionals in western society). There is a distinct lack of intelligent support for LRH in the world.
Eventually once the current top management goes through all the possible things they can do and tech they can release, and exhaust every angle, all in the effort to "keep the show on the road", the years will go by, and by osmosis, wog sane longrange concepts will infiltrate into the minds of the top guys in Scn management, and they will have to adjust how they picture themselves and hopefully will get off the delusionary high horse they think they are on. Unfortunately LRH built a "catch-22" factor into their options. They open themselves up to being "off-source" every time they go for a more compassionate, sane, and "reasonable" (meaning using high reason, and not the normal negative way "reasonable" is used in Scn by LRH) approach towards "wogs" and "ex-Scn" debris. In fact this concept of "reasonable" in fact is a perfect serious flaw in Scn embedded unthinkingly by LRH (for those who have experience with the Scn meaning of "reasonable"). By changing the meaning of "reasonable" into a critical rebuff of the intelligent men and women who have in the past sought to improve conditions on this planet, LRH's dismissive connotation forever preempts the once important meaning of this word, and top management Scientologists are for now and forever always reminded of LRH's disdain for the past great thinkers of this planet. LRH's view of himself being that LRH is now having to clean up and solve all the world's great thinkers ineffectiveness.
Anyways, I only wanted to say 3 points in all of the above ramblings:
I support all those who are making and voicing valid criticism of LRH, his policies and the harmful policies of the church, which I do not support any longer.
I've become an agnostic. But if someone comes along with some convincing data proving exteriorization, past lives, future lives, I'll listen. My own 25 plus years of "wholetrack" auditing I threw in the wastecan, and refiled all my "wholetrack" past-lives as my own imagination.
FACTNET CE POST #4
Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 02:59 am
Regarding Ken Urquhart, I myself was a brand new SO member at the Flag Land Base from Dec 1975, all through the years Ken was "Pers Comm" at the FLB (Flag Land Base) and after Ken got busted, became a NOTs auditor, and when he disappeared (got declared or whatever). I happened to be at the Flag Land Base staff briefing that some CMO Int Messengers gave about the "bad hats" at the Flag Land Base, around 81 or 82, and Vicki Aznaran was one of the missionaires on this CMO Int mission. Vicki apparantly had it on her Mission Orders to confront and assign Ken to the RPF or do some sort of public ethics gradient. I remember the whole Flag Land Base crew getting a pretty long briefing in the big auditorium above the cabanas at the Fort Harrison, and after the briefing when all the staff are streaming out the doors to go back on post, Vicki, who it sounded to me like she forgot to do this target during the briefing, starts screaming "Ken Urquhart" "Where is Ken Urquhart" "Ken Uquhart", over and over, by screaming his name like this, you just knew Ken was toast. I really felt for him. Because here was Vicki, a newcomer, who completed the fast track to CMO Int, and now was back at the FLB putting Ken's head on a pike. And Ken had put in more years serving LRH than Vicki EVER came close to. Same with all of the green behind their ears CMO messengers at "Int", who authorized the mission orders that Vicki was operating on, (I would like to ask Vicki about those Mission Orders, and see if Miscavage wrote them, because Miscavage had been Action Chief CMO Int and he was the kind to write and authorize these type of put heads on pikes, type of missions. I think that that particular Mission to the Flag Land Base might have been around the time he was in Action CMO Int or after he moved onto the Int/SU Mission (someone should know, I think John Nelson -- former CO CMO Int in 1981, would know), which if Ken is reading this, I think if someone knows and can tell him, because I think Miscavage and other inexperienced CMO messengers at the time had inherited the hat of "top management" and Miscavage and the CMO Int crew were bungling along, settling some of LRH's imaginary gripes, by putting the heads of WHOEVER was on post at the Flag Land Base management level, on pikes, and also piking those who might have slipped by earlier from getting their heads on pikes (which is how I took Vicki's assault on Ken that day, settling an old score with Ken, who somehow failed to help LRH out, because Ken refused to go uplines, which was the rumor at Flag at the time, so she was delivering Ken's overdue punishment it looked like to me). LRH bitterly complained (I read the '81 LRH advices, and LRH is BITTER), about Management, which included Ken as Pers Comm, all the Commodore Staff Aides, all the FB execs, etc., meaning Flag Bureaux Management, "failing for the millionith time" (I paraphrase what LRH said). LRH was so pissed, he then got into a whole roll in 1982 with Foster Tompkins, on the Mission Computerize Management mission, run from CMO Int also, and LRH had tremendously voluminous back and forth conversations with Foster Tompkins about how to get computers to take over management (which is the strategy set in concrete now, which is INCOMM's goal (INCOMM being the computer org of the Sea Org, to computerize things, look it up in the What Is Scientology Book if you don't know what INCOMM is). The computers are supposed to be able to do evals someday. Ken I think as a person, who so dedicately worked for LRH and the Sea Org, ought to see all of LRH's advices traffic to CMO Int from the time Ken went off the lines, just to see what happened. That would be an act of compassion in my book, if he were allowed to see what later happened. For a man who worked so closely to a person like LRH, it is only fair they get a full view of what happened next, on LRH's lines. But unfortunately such things would never be allowed by those who "picked up the ball" (from their viewpoint), or from my view, who bungled through the transition period, and LRH either deluded himself into thinking his dedicated crew of CMO Int messengers really knew what they were doing, or LRH was being unusually charitable with their green enthusiasm. That time there was a complete with the attacks on the church by the IRS and the legal battles at the time, huge suits by Christoferson, and the GO being a disaster. There was enough noise that the greenies at CMO Int had plenty of confusion to deflect and cover their ineffectiveness, and LRH just wanted to TURN OVER his hats (Ken and anyone on management lines, all involved) know this.
To really sort out this whole messy period, it would take a convention of all the blown and declared execs to sit down, for two weeks, and has it all out. And have on hand all the LRH traffic and reports sent to LRH, so it could be seen why LRH said exactly what he did, in response to exactly what data was presented to him.
I don't think this will happen in any of our lifetimes. But that would be the ideal scene to sort out the whole late 70's, 80's management mess, and would be good for history's sake alone, in my book.
Ken was a surviver being so close to LRH, those pivotal years, he dropped off LRH's lines, and got shot by the pissed off CMO Int messenger greenies executing LRH's general disgust with the Flag Bureaux's repeated failures(I'm including the Commodore Staff Aides as part of the FB, even though they were technically above the FB, and the Commodore Staff Aides received separate rebukes from LRH for not handling the FB).
I always looked up to him, as to the normal Flag Land Base staffer from Dec 1975 up to 1979.
While I personally after 27 years of being in the Sea Org, and finally departing myself in 2003, I no longer hold any Scientology religious beliefs, and my views are now agnostic. But I try to treat anyone's religious beliefs with common sense respect.
I think Ken's postings are good historical data, and it would be great to get a convention of the old 75-78 management personnel, all those declared SP, and get them into a panel discussion, or coffee table discussion, and tape the whole thing, just for the record, to give us who also lived through that period, with some behind the scenes insight into all the various insider info of the various church policies and strategies and programs that were going on. From a historian's viewpoint, Ken's data and writings will be greatly appreciated. They inevitably give us even more clearly the true scene inside the world of Scn management during the period Ken writes about.
FACTNET CE POST #5
Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 12:58 am
From CE to Tigger, hi. I haven't figured out how to post on ARS, I'm newly coming out. I've only posted on operation clambake, and I am not sure what that site is. And I've made one or two posts on FactNet.
To Michael Greenberg, thanks. I will try to improve my writing, I get lost in digressions. You wouldn't believe it, but my post above, I cut down by 2/3rds before posting it (I'd digressed way further, and cut out alot of other things). I have a lot to say. But you're right, I need to work on my writing, paragraphs, sticking to the subject. Thanks.
How can I get in contact with Ken Rose? I worked in the same office at Snr C/S Int office, with Ken, just before he blew from CMO Int, and really would like to hook up with him and tell him about the aftermath at Snr C/S Int, following his blow.
OCMB Post #14
Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 8:56 am:
Dear RC, Hi, I was in Scn for 28 years. 27 of those years I was a lifetime staffer (called the Sea Org). I worked in the upper church units, and my final 5 + years I spent in the "rehabilitation project force". I met most of the exiting top personnel in the lifetime staff organizations (Sea Org units).
I got into Scn mid my 3rd year of college. 28 years later I left them altogether, and am now an agnostic. Here is the simple story from my viewpoint.
In 1975, I was 23. I didn't believe in Hinduism or Buddhism, but I did wonder about all sorts of mystical experiences people were talking and writing about. I had read of people's hallucinagentic experiences, "flying", "astral body travel", "out of the body experiences". To me, this information, together with some things I picked up in college, about Plato, speaking about the soul getting a new body after death, these ideas taken together opened up a willingness on my part, a hopefulness, or just the idea that these persons who have been having these experiences of being "outside" of their bodies, flying or floating around, and still being able to visually register their surroundings, this whole area of experience was fascinating. It sounded like a good thing to achieve this type of state, or somehow in a controlled fashion, leave your body, and float around somehow.
Scn has this state as a guaranteed offering on one of its levels of the Scn "Bridge". Period, end of argument for me. In May 1975, when the staff member at the church I walked into, showed me that this level of awareness was a definite step on the Scn "Bridge", I was filled with the promise of someday getting to that step.
It is pretty far up the "Bridge", but it is there, and it is there still to this day. After 27 years, did I see people achieve it as I originally expected it was being offered? The simple answer is NO. I have not seen and never saw in my 27 years, upon reflecting on this seriously in my final 7 years, people achieving this state smoothly, routinely. Instead what I saw was many people "claiming" to have achieved this state (called "exteriorization" in Scn). And I met none who achieved the state of "exteriorization with full perception" (which meaning floating out of your body with 360 degree perception visually). This lack of seeing this major (what I think you will realize that this IS a spiritual activity) spiritual experience, I moved out of the Sea Org, and I moved away from the Scn movement entirely, and have no plans of engaging in any Scn activities.
But even some of the critics of Scn, I have read, a man I respect a lot, named Jesse Prince, has spoken of his own experience of "being outside" his body. So this experience has been had by many (probably thousands) while in Scn. I never got it.
The final deciding moment for me, was when I read the Encyclopedia Britanica article on "Mysticism". In summary, at the end of that article, it says many have gone the route of trying to achieve union with god, achieve nirvana, etc., and in the end, very very few make it, and that that state is simply just not that common. That article summed up Scn for me too. Even though Scn does NOT rate being included in that article, the ratio of success in other past mystical practises, is similar in my experience with the success rate of achieving even "exteriorization" (meaning a vividly clear out-of-the-body-experience) in Scn.
So that is the long and short of the major major reason why I got it, and how I got out. Besides the other fantastic horror stories of stupidly applied church policies, by untrained staff, and even the horrendous policies of the church when correctly applied, all those horror stories are side issues, to the main religious or spiritual claims of Scn's practises.
Truly the Scn movement does NOT deliver out-of-the body experience ability to people in a quick, effective, stable way. If it did, I'd still support it. But delivering to another human being the ability to "exteriorize" at will, and with 360 degree visual perception, is NOT something Scn can do quickly, or easily. In the end I came to conclude that this experience is an hallucination, and I am currently an agnostic, very close to being an atheist.
I had years of listening to fellow staff talk about their "exteriorization" experiences, and judging what they said, in my opinion now, I believe about 95% were those staff settling for something which I consider far less that the full straight out-of-the-body, floating in the air, viewing the room or outdoors scene from many feet up in the air, above one's body.
But again, I did not make an extensive survey of all staff who I met over the years (about 6-7,000 people). I am open to Scn coming along, and proving they can get someone to exteriorize, in which case fine, great, more power to them.
But I didn't see it in 27 years. What I saw fits what I read in the Encyclopedia Britanica, and I got out. Because there are members of Scn, who have had the "exteriorization" experience, I'd ask them, and stick to that subject, stick to that subject hard, being polite and respectful, as this is a central religious belief of theirs, especially for those who have had the experience. Press them for details on "exteriorization with full perception", meet people who have done it, and see if you can find people who can do it at will. I think you will find that instead people who have had the experience of "exteriorization with full or substantion visual perception" will have had that experience a limited number of times. It is not something that happens once, and then the person stays lodged outside their bodies, and so forth, as it is promised in Scn. I think you will find it is more like the ancient Plotinus, the Neoplatonic philosopher, 205 - 270 AD, who following in Plato's footsteps, himself apparantly had the "exteriorization" (I use the Scn word, he of course did not use this terminology, but I think he was referring to this state, again I may be wrong on this too, but I only offer this because it was such a major event for him, similar to how "out-of-thebody-experiences" are such MAJOR events for people today who have that experience), experience only 2 or 3 times apparantly. He was trying to get the experience back again, but it was not something he could do at will.
This aligns with the amount of success of "Mystics" in the Encyclopedia Britanica article on "Mysticism", and oddly enough, if you look at the front cover page or on one of the first front pages in every Scn book by Hubbard, there is a disclaimer notice about Scn, and in the disclaimer it says (I paraphrase) something about the fact that the success of Scn in a person's life depends on his dedicated application of the Scn practises. That's their out, but to me, it is acceptable, really, in light of the other religions having a similar low success rate at the high spiritual "ability" category.
To me, these are all self-induced hallucinations, and that's why I'm agnostic. Okay, but this "exteriorization", "out of the body experience", "astral body travel", "flying", are one of the bottom lines of why I got into Scn, and in the end, why I exited. And you can see from it, why Scn can be a religion, and why it can pull in people to travel up its "Bridge" to this experience, and other "spirtual" abilities. The US Govt rates them a religion, fine with me. I am not mad dog against anyone's religious beliefs. I am only against Scn's bad policies now. I hope they exteriorize lots of happy customers, and if Scn can get that service down really good, and attract lots of people who are "blown out" (literally) of their bodies, cool.
But it doesn't look like this really does happen, but if it does fine. I haven't seen it happen as promised widely in my 27 years as a lifetime staffmember. And if the scholars who have studied the world's mystical practises for centuries are reliable, Scn will follow suit, predictably. Sorry to be so long-winded.
another of the many reasons I left in the end
OCMB Post #15
Posted on Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 8:51 am:
Dear All, Here is my two cents re LRH coming back or not.
I was at CMO Int, at various times in the 80's, and due to my post at the time, I was ordered by CO CMO Int, Mark Yaeger, to do a thorough search of all LRH advices, to ensure nothing in them applied to what I was researching and writing for.
Therefore I had read thousands of advices, all of the early 80's, up to 84.
Later in my career in the Sea Org, I made it up to ASI, and read all of the ASI, advices, again, thousands (I skimmed them, proofread them, etc.) for a project.
I can honestly say the only directly related advice I read by LRH about his coming back, was the highly publicised advice to David Mayo, where LRH said to David that David was responsible for LRH's tech hat, and to hold the fort till his return. That is the only major most recent communication that I know of from LRH on this matter. And David Mayo's own writeup about that LRH advice to David Mayo is from my recollection extremely accurate. All that advice intimates is that LRH is coming back.
If you know ASI's relationship to LRH, and the types of advices he sent to it, realize also that when LRH died, DM was "COB ASI".
I also skimmed through all of the "COB ASI" advices and saw no such communication from LRH regarding what was LRH's plan after he died, meaning whether to return, or go off to another planet.
Another most recent source is the LRH ED 339R Int, where LRH definitely says he plans to help clear this planet, then "we'll go off and clear another planet" (my paraphrase, not a literal quote).
In my years uplines, I heard NO rumours of what LRH's plans were, other than these two references.
There was NO rumors on any secret plans to locate LRH, or anything.
There are two other long range references, to give you an idea of where LRH is at on the matter of his relationship to his imagined legacy of Scn that he has left here on earth.
In the recent LRH tech film, which is only available to Briefing Course students, there is a new tech film, meaning in the last 3 years, called "Why TRs". It is the one that Isaac Hayes stars in. The movie starts with Isaac dressed like an intergalactic astronomer/observer and as the Narrator of the film, Isaac is standing on this huge oval platform floating deep in the midst of empty space, with stars lighting up the black sky behind and round him. You should see the film, if you can or get someone else to tell you about it in all detail. But the whole message of this film, is that Briefing Course grads need to have the whole content of the LRH book Dynamics of Life, in their heads. Because there is a key principle in that book which determines their own success, when in the future the Briefing Course grad finds himself born again and inhabiting another planet, and they are trying to teach the people of their planet the tech (the whole implication is that BC grads, or truly well trained Scinetologists will find themselves as "source" on new planets, and will have to get the whole show on the road themselves, when they go to get the "tech" in on other planets).
My point of bringing up these LRH references, is to let you know what the guys at Int, and at the top of the Sea Org actually have as far as references themselves, to deal with this same question that is brought up in this thread. What are LRH's plans. From the references I know from the inside, the answer is LRH may be back, but if not, he seems to want those in Scn to learn the tech well enough, so that someday when they find themselves alone on other planets, then they better be able to remember what they learned of the tech from LRH, so they can get the show on the road by themselves. I am not defending this in any way, but I am only offering what actually I saw and read, and I believe what I am saying is pretty close to what the top people in the Sea Org think re this question of LRH's return, or not.
CE, 25 year plus ex-SO vet
FACTNET POST #6
August 21, 2004 11:04 PM
[Same text as the one next but one below, OCMB Post #16]
FACTNET POST #7
Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 11:39 pm
Anne Broeker is uplines. Last I knew she works in the unit called F & E, and takes photographs on the base, and does photography cycles.
She can't go off the base too often, since she was such a heavy hitter, she's on the list of Int staff that used to not be able to be in the Int spectator section, due to their high positions in the past. This may have changed, but I think the Int staff don't even go to public events any longer. But if they do, if someone does some videos of the people, the best way to see who is still there, is by seeing who attends events.
She did the RPF in the late 80's, when Pat blew.
I met her on the RPF in Jan 89, and I liked her. She was an MAA on the Int RPF at that time, and a very smart, nice person.
Probably still is.
I saw her uplines when I was an ASI staff member, and in Aug 94, I think it was, at the after Sea Org day ceremony activities, all the various Int units were getting group photos done.
I can't recall if she was the one who actually took the photo while we ASI staff had our group photo taken, but I recall just before it was our time to get our group photo, I watched her taking shots of David Miscavage, and she apparantly is a very good photographer.
She probably still works in some similar post. Because she has such high level insider knowledge and WIDE WIDE extensive knowledge of all aspects of LRH's activities in the 80's, she probably will continue doing posts related to special things that she would need NO briefing to handle. In otherwords she has been there, done that, or heard about, almost everything regarding what is needed and wanted on any of the Audio and Cine lines at the Base. LRH has done EXTENSIVE writings on all aspects of the production lines at the Int base, meaning the Gold movie and audio production lines.
This is my educated guess. I liked her, and she is probably doing great at whatever she's doing.
One last time I met her, spring 96, she was walking 3 dogs, and they jumped on the dog that I was accompanying, I had to give one of the 3 dogs a boot, and she was very apologetic about "her" dogs' bad manners. This was on the south side of Building 36 on the base, in the bushes on the south side of Building 36. I was accompanying Dave Medina's dog, a great partial black lab named Micky, and the dog under Anne's care was named "Babe", I had to give the boot to Babe so she wouldn't bite Micky.
That's all I know with my own eyes.
Chuck Beatty (ex-SO) '75-'03
PS: The black lab called Micky, was an exceptional dog. Later, in 99-2000, Micky came to Happy Valley, where I was then RPFed, and Cassavias Tabayoyan, then one of the execs for the farming staff at the ranch, trained Micky to guard the chickens at the ranch. Micky did an excellent job of chasing down another dog, a terrier, pinning the dog down, until we could go grab the terrier, and put the terrier in its cage. Micky was a very loved dog on the Int base for the years. There are a number of beloved dogs, that all Int base staff loved. For years and years dogs used to be allowed to run free at times on the base, Micky was exceptional.
FACTNET POST #8
Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 03:47 am
Re: PC data into INCOMM computer system.
No PC folder data was ever being scanned into the computer system. But auditors I believe routinely typed up what are called "Session Knowledge Reports" based on what pc's said in session. How I know this, is because in my own sec checks by an RTC auditor, I later saw a computer printout of her Knowledge Reports on me.
So I know that my Dec 1995 Sec Check by Gerda Herrerra she wrote some of my PC answers into the INCOMM computer system, into her own personal document files, then printed off the doc. From my experience I don't think if today you go to Gerda's word processing files, in the INCOMM networked computer system, you won't find those docs. Docs like that, Gerda would eventually shred on her own, once she knew she didn't have to make any more copies, which was probably a few months after she finished her sec check with me.
INCOMM in the 80's used a WANG image scanning system. Very slow. Replaced in late 80's early nineties with smaller, faster better scanners. In the basement I think of the HGB building, the one at the corner of Ivar and Hollywood Blvd, there is a computer room in the basement of that building. Nathan Dines, former computer operations officer of INCOMM up to 2001 I think, told me, while we were both on the RPF, this would have been in 2001 or 2002 most likely, Nathan told me, I seem to recall, that the document scanning now went on in the basement of the HGB building. Whether it actually occurred in the INCOMM computer room in the basement, that is what I seem to recall.
The documents scanned are all hard copy paper that comes to the HGB, which are reports, compliance reports, statistics reports, miscellaneous management reports, all information having to do with the administrative goings on in the 170 or so churches. All of the paper information coming in goes onto an imaging system that are networked within the HGB building, and are standalone systems, NOT connected to the separate computer network that holds the wordprocessing files of all the staff. The normal word processing system, at the time I was associated with the INCOMM system, held the normal docs that staff could and would create sitting at their desks, for their letters and orders to lower subordinates and reports to their seniors. That word processing system was just one of the about 12 choices the staff have, using the basic networked INCOMM computer system. The other 12 choices included a Program.Project tracking system, a statistics (graphically depicted statistics), the SIR system (all of LRH's written and tape transcribed works, and others I can't recall at the moment. But the images of the paper docs coming in from the field churches, were viewable on a standalone networked system, with special commputer stations on the various floors of the HGB for viewers to go to those computer stations to get the images of the scanned in material from the outer churches.
This is as of late 1995.
The statistics on the computer is pretty extensive. All the 170 or so main Class 5 churches have the same set number of org statistics they have to report each Thursday at 2pm, when the church production week ends each week. A Bureau in the HGB, called the Stats Branch, collects all the stats, via telex lines, which come in on the ground floor of the HGB, in the section along Ivar Ave, which has its own entrance. The "telex" (today it likely is email for sure), from the orgs comes into the External Communications Branch, who then route the data into the INCOMM computers which instantly translate all the statisitc data into the graphics computer program that then any HGB computer user can see on their networked computer stations in their offices.
Then the HGB administrative managers on Thursday night and Friday morning, do weekly "analyses" of their groups of churches, by Continent. There are managers for each continent, responsible for all sorts of analyses and reports and this Thursday/Friday activity is the most condensed period of administrative activty in the HGB each week. If one stood across the street and watched the building starting Thursday dinnertime, straight through to Friday 10am, and you did this each week for a month or two, you'd see a similar pattern. And noticing which managers walked home every Friday morning, you may even extrapolate which continents are doing well, and which aren't. Oftentimes the latest to bed managers are having the roughest time with their continents.
Anyways the stats go into the system each week from the orgs, probably via email, don't know for sure, but any Class 5 org staff member would be able to say how he sends in the org's stats each week, and how they send it, is how INCOMM at the HGB or INCOMM at the "complex" building receives it.
The LA INCOMM system I think is kept completely separate from the INCOMM Int computers. That is to avoid any INCOMM LA computer person getting onto any of the INCOMM Int computers, which RTC staff use, which of course would be an utter disaster.
The whole computer system I knew and used up to the end of 1995 I know has been replaced. In the end of 1995, I could still log onto the Int computers, but the INCOMM Int operator would KNOW INSTANTLY and call me, and he did on occassion. As the ASI operator I sometimes transferred an ASI staffmember's password up to an INCOMM Int computer, because ASI staff sometimes used the INCOMM Int computer network when the ASI staff member was visiting a CMO Int or RTC staff member for some reason.
I cannot speak with any certainty, only an educated guess, and that would be that INCOMM Int and INCOMM LA have NO possible connections, other than to transfer the internal message system messages back and forth. Only 2 or 3 computer guys would be able to sit int he LA computer room and somehow get onto an INCOMM Int computer. And it would be only in the utmost urgency, like an Int INCOMM computer was crashed, and only a person in LA could salvage it, so was given on the spot access, via the network, to connect from the LA INCOMM computer room, to debug the "crashed" INCOMM Int computer.
Regarding PC folders, I can tell you there was a very large storage building at the Int Base, where pc storage is. I had heard a rumor in 1995, I seem to recall, of a project to put pc folders onto microfiche type files. I can immediately say that I think this NEVER occurred, only because I think if it does happen, then the Flag Land Base, who has the most massive PC storage facilities which are OFF-BASE, meaning miles away from the Fort Harrison, would also be ultimately starting that project. Again, it might be happening, I am just very out of the loop on that. INCOMM would definitely be involved and held responsible to ensure the equipment researched and used, was adequate for the job. And, you are probably thinking along the right lines. I am sorry to say, my INCOMM data is too old to help you out with certainty.
Thanks for the compliment on my writing. I am trying to improve my writing, because I may someday write a book on my Scn experiences. In the meantime I hope to provide useful data to others.
Chuck, when you worked on the INCOMM computers, can you tell us specifically what materials were input in that system? In other words, do you have knowledge of PC folder data being fed in to the system? or what specifically was fed into it? thanks very much
and thank you for having the courage to come forward. Your very open and expressive style of writing connotes a very open disposition. I hope you have a wonderful adventure in retrieving your new life.
OCMB Post #16
Posted on Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 4:49 am:
Hello, my name is Chuck Beatty.
I recently (Aug 2004) made several posts, using the name: CE.
I am CE. My name is Chuck Beatty. CE stood for my first and middle names, Charles Edward Beatty.
I finally got enough nerve to use my name. Thanks to many people's encouragement, and several other ex-SO member's fine examples, I now speak freely.
My Sea Org time track is 27 years long, and I'm relatively recently fully out (Dec 75 to Mar 03).
Here is a breakdown of my timetrack, and I am open to any and all questions regarding any aspect of my track:
Dec 75 to Mar 77. Tech Training Corps at Flag Service Org. Failed on my route to being Class 12 auditor, got up Level III on the Academy levels.
Jul 77 to Jul 83 Course Supervisor and Word Clearer for the Org Exec Course at Flag. (I made thousands of acquaintences in my years as a Flag course supervisor, most old-timers know me from these days, when I supervised or word cleared them on various training courses they did at Flag during those years.)
Jul 83 to Oct 87, I assisted on the Routing Forms project that produced the computerized routing forms used in all Class 5 orgs today. (Went to the Int Base, Gilman Hot Springs, outside Hemet California, first in Jul 83, and went there off and on over the next 4 years for routing forms matters)
Nov 87 to Aug 88, Course Supervisor retraining, and became the Sec Checker School Course Supervisor, Int Training Org, then at the big blue building, the "Complex".
Sept 88 to Jan 89, Researcher/Compiler on the Org Exec Course Checksheet project run by Senior C/S Int Office, at the Int Base. Failed on my project.
Jan 89 to Feb 89, Rehabilitation Project Force (RPF), the one for the uplines people, situated at Happy Valley ranch, 14 miles from the Int Base, adjacent to the Svoboba Indian reservation. Enjoyed it, but that's me. Thought the people were generally great, both at the Int Base and on the RPF. Much milder than the "bad old days" so horrendously documented on the internet by older-timers than me.
Feb 89 to May 89, Rehabilitation Project Force (RPF) at the big blue building, the "Complex", in LA. Again a great time for me, loved the work, there were 240 plus people on the PAC RPF then. Worked 2 shifts, finishing the renovations on the HGB (Hollywood Guarantee Building, middle management building on Hollywood Blvd, just down the street from the Hollywood Inn).
May 89 to Aug 89, Org Exec Course supervisor, Int Training Org, at the newly renovated HGB building.
Sept 89 to Sept 90, routing forms project under INCOMM (LA and I was once or twice at RTC Int spaces and INCOMM Int spaces)
Sept 90 to May 92, INCOMM computer rooms at LA and Int, worked as the night person, doing computer backups and maintenance, then later as the Daytime computer operations officer at INCOMM LA.
May 92 - Aug 95, Author Services Incorporated computer person.
Sept 95 to Dec 95, failed miserably as Exec Establishment Officer ASI.
Dec 95 to Jul 96, deckwork at the Int base. Great work, great people on the decks at that time. Really enjoyed it so much, would have liked to have remained a construction worker, and had anyone realized this and posted me there, then today I might not be making this post.
Jul 96 to Nov 2000, Rehabilitation Project Force (RPF), again at the Happy Valley ranch, 14 miles from the Int Base. Really liked this RPF, but hated being kept there against my will. Loved the food, work, people there, scenery, but hated the captivity. (Saw the German news helicopters, and was hiding inside one of the red trailers when those films and photos were taken.)
Nov 2000 to Mar 2003, Rehabilitation Project Force (RPF) again back at the big blue building, the "Complex", in LA. Again a great time for me, loved the old complex building, renovating it. Hated with a passion being under constant "watch" for over a year, and I was elated when I finally was free to walk off the property and take control of my life at along last.
Mar 29, 2003 to Jun 2004, I worked in LA, simple job, and read thousands of pages of internet anti-Scn sites. Read all the data on NOTs scholars, all the confid material, everything. I spent my spare time exploring LA, getting to know the city, hiking all of the mountain ranges around the city. I really got to know the city I had lived in for 22 years, finally.
Jul 2004, I have moved to Pittsburgh, and live with my sister. My plans are move around to each of my family members, living and working nearby each of them.
I am twice divorced (both my ex's are in the Sea Org and are great women. Ann Halblom Beatty, I think is Dissem Sec or Reg at CC Int. Janet Parker, is Invest Files at OSA Int.)
I will answer any and all questions about any moment in my Scientology history.
I plan to make posts about what I think are the main reasons the Scn movement is not succeding, compared to its claims, and why I feel they will not succede, which is why I left.
I've become an agnostic, I no longer hold any Scn beliefs. I am an existentialist, secular humanist (as best I understand those concepts).
I respect almost all Sea Org members still in the SO, and enjoyed working with them. I respect Scn members religious beliefs, but do not share any of them any longer.
I also respect the work of the many people who have created the internet sites and particularly think the work of Gerry Armstrong and Arnie Lerma (while I know posters have all variety of opinions about everyone and every site), have been particularly the most helpful for me. I've spoken to both of them on the phone, and am grateful they have stuck it out, and keep on going. Hats off to them both.
I will answer any and all questions about any moment in my Scientology history.
Chuck Beatty (CE)
FACTNET POST #9
Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 05:30 am
Two answers below, first on Cassavias, second a starter answer on the Int RPF.
Re: Cassavias T.
Well Cassavias is an exceptional person. He really is a great guy. Oh, I hate to break anyone's heart, like his mom or dad, who I would err in saying I am sure he misses, but I cannot say what his emotions are. I did not broach the subject of his feelings, but my guess is he misses them. He is a very mellow person, always has this serene smile on his face most of the time.
We nicknamed him, Mr. T, us Int Base RPFers who were the ones who worked for him, on the Int Base RPF. (We never called it Happy Valley, while we were there. We just called it the "ranch", and Cassavias was ranch staff, and he was for a long time one of our daily seniors who gave us jobs that needed to be done on the ranch. I loved the work, loved the people.
I have to say with some sorrow, that Cassavias changed his name completely, and he is now legally (although I didn't see the papers, but assume due to other talking about it, it is true) he's now named Michael Prbyzylski, and he legally became the stepson of Dan Prbyzylski. Not that Dan P is not a great person, which he is in his own right. But it is sad, to have to let out this info, which probably will cause some sorrow with Cassavias's real parents, who may have hoped to see him again. Cassavias is a great person, very calm, very serene and I think married now too. I enjoyed working for him. His parents, Andre, and mom, would be proud of him. He's a very nice person and a good exec to work for. He was promoted off the ranch, and I am not sure where he went actually. I think either the Int base, or possibly Flag. God, I hate to say this, but the whole reason Cassavias came to change his name to Michael Prbyzylski, was to distance him from Andre, sad, sad news, I hate to relay this. I have no data, but I assume it was NOT his idea to change his name, but I honestly do not know, but my inclination, is to dub in that someone suggested it to him, like the Gold MAA, who was ordered to do so by someone even higher, probably RTC. All my dub in, but that is how I read that. Realize Cassavias is still the same person, there is nothing ill in his own intentions from my view, towards his parents. It is just the picture painted of his dad, was pretty evil, by the church magazines, that said some pretty drastic things. To me, it reminds me of the same predicament that Val (Schomer) Page was put in, when Homer was declared. Same with Cassavias. One of the tragedies of the church policies. I am sorry to have to relay this.
I like Cassavias and I liked Andre when I met him in 81 when he did the OEC/FEBC at Flag, and I either supervised him or word cleared him, and I also met Andre when he was on the RPF in Jan 89 when I was on the RPF then at Happy Valley briefly also. I hate these family separations, even though it is not my family, I hate to see it. It is really sad.
No, I couldn't ever discuss this, with Cassavias, even though since I was one of the main, top farm/ranch workers.
Anyways, I chatted alot with Cassavias, renovated his ranch berthing room, did hundreds and hundreds of project targets for his ranch post areas, but never would it be appropriate to talk about his dad. I was there, when we on the RPF were asked to start calling him Michael. It was awkward, since RPFers normally refered to Dan Prbyzyslki as Mr. P and we referred to Cassavias as Mr. T (for Tabayoyan). So the time we had to not use his old name, we didn't know what to call him. It wasn't too big of an issue, we just said "Sir", oh, I remember, we started to call him Mr. P Junior. Yea, Mr. P Jnr. that didn't really fly though either. Sounded odd, we stopped calling him that when talking to him, but that is how we politely referred to him, because in between RPFer conversation, it wasn't kosher to say "Michael told us to .....". So we said "Mr. P Jnr" when talking amongst ourselves, and I just said "Sir" to him. I think my good RPF buddy Francesco Frau still just called him Mr. T. Then he got promoted to the Base or to Flag, and he wasn't the ranch boss for us RPFers working the farm/ranch duties.
Okay, second answer, RE conditions.
Conditions were exceptional compared to past RPF standards. The whole Int RPF had a rampup to it by the time I arrived in Jul 96.
Realize the whole ranch has been thoroughly renovated, in the early 90's.
From other, mainly Bruce Hines, I found out that the late 80's RPF was cancelled, and everyone came off the RPF and back onto post, sometime, I seem to recall, in 1990. Bruce told me all persons on the Int RPF were given the choice of routing out, or coming back to post. All chose to go back on post, with 2 or 3 exceptions Bruce told me, I seem to recall.
Then the Int ranch was transformed into the Int ranch for the sons and daughters of the Int Base parents. This was a joyful developement, and the "motels" (I am assuming you are familiar with the ranch, so am using the building names as known to those who have been there) were all reno'd and were the kids dorms. All very nicely reno'd. A whole renovation, and rock walls, all done by the kids themselves, and these steller older kids then graduated the ranch and went onto posts at the base, which was their goals in most cases. Anyways, to make a long story short, the whole ranch got a major facelift, all buildings renovated, repainted, the swimming pool was opened up, and the "garage" was renovated, even the Campbell house, where the ranch execs lives, was reno'd. A whole new asphalt road was put in. A huge fire pit, and meeting ground, playgrounds, horse corals, dog houses, etc., etc., goat pens, and the kids did the farm work.
Then in 94 - 95 there were quite a few bad busts and people wanting to leave, like about 10 or so, and they were over on the west end of the base where persons in bad graces, off post, on the decks, were housed, past OGH (Old Gilman House).
Eventually those 10 or so persons while still living on the Int Base, out west of OGH, were being ferried daily to the section of the ranch, to make a clearing, and start setting up a new housing project where they would move to eventually from the Int base. And that area of the Int ranch then became the site of the same RPF trailers, seen on the German News reporter videos. It was planned, to open the new Int RPF, in August 1995. It sort of opened, but wasn't fully ready, for various reasons, but the 10 or so deckees all moved over, and they started living, and doing decks there. Then gradually they went onto the RPF program, adopting some, but all of the RPF issues as their guides.
Reason was they didn't adopt all the issues just point blank, realize this is Int. The Int base is where issues are reviewed and rewritten, and it was known that the last RPF was a bit of a failure, the one terminated in 1990, so by Aug 95 when the new RPF was being opened up, it didn't have the issues yet. The RPF issues were on the list of things that RTRC (Senior C/S Int office unit called LRH Tech Research and Compilations) to revise. So the baddies had to start the RPF without the new issues, and at least they had the Golden Age of Tech binders to use, to train the totally greenie RPFers. Anyways, the new RPFers blundered along quite well, as when I got there it was a pretty happening scene, happy RPFers mainly, one exception, one guy never agreed to do the RPF, and he became my role model when I wanted to first route out, in 1997, I failed in my first attempt though to route out.
The lack of new RPF issues, was sort of cart before the horse, as sometimes happens, or often happens, depends on your time-track or memory, anyways, those 10 were now about 30 by the time I got there, and they seemed to have a cheerful RPF going by the time I got there in Jul 96.
When you say conditions, I think food, sleep, mattresses, furniture, materials, heat, air conditioning, type thing. Well, we had good food, we had air conditioning in our dorms and in the course rooms for auditing. We had heat in winter.
Food was brought out from the Int base every lunch and every dinner, using hot boxes. Same tasty food the base got. Only JAP (Jewish American Princess) types could complain about the food if you ask me.
I am and was Mr. look on the bright side, no matter what, and I loved the place. Flowers all over, looked like boot camp for bunch of female gardening freaks.
Also, re the food. At the Int base it is really excellent, and has been for years. As a Sea Org member, my ASI, Int RPF, PAC RPF food was ALL better than either my own dad or step-mother ever cooked. Better meat, better veggies, better deserts. No complaints any more on the food, from 92 till I left in 2003.
We had all the materials to maintain our site. Tools, raw materials, since the ranch is a kind of dumping ground, and Dan P used to pick up all sorts of freebies, and leftovers from the construction going on at the Int Base, the ranch ended up with all sorts of raw materials. We had a tech film room, we did all our own renos and people on the uplines RPF are generally pretty sharp people, who know which way the wind is blowing, meaning they know what is going to be acceptable to senior RTC persons, even COB, coming to inspect the site, which he never did though in the 4 years I was there. This translated into a very sharp looking RPF site, even though in the German film, it may have looked like a trailer park, from the air.
After the helicopter videoing, we spruced it up even more. We built a few more buildings, replace some dilapidated ones. And in the end of 1999, we actually demolished all the old trailer park trailers, and all the kids at the ranch were now pretty grown up, and they got promoted either to the Int base, or to Flag orgs or PAC orgs. And then the whole RPF moved over to the "motels", and the RPF conditions just shot up a whole other notch. And with the kids all gone from the ranch, we then ate our meals in the "Main House", as it is known. And we did all the kitchen duties, from then on too. I did alot of kitchen duties, again, I liked it. I liked all the work, I am not a whiner about anything.
The Int RPF smokes the PAC RPF, as you might imagine. It is still going, I imagine, and still probably the best, from an RPFer's perspective.
Let me know if you know the Int ranch well, and I will tell you much much more, regarding renovations of buildings, which buildings are used for what, etc.
I really enjoyed my whole Int RPF stay, it was comfortable, fun work, I loved it. Not a lot of people love to dig irrigation trenches by hand, but that is right up my alley.
I was there 4 years, each year, I did so many things, it would take a book to cover it all.
The things I hated, I will leave to a separate post. I had two engramic moments, in what I consider the most degrading moments. I can tell you my really bad moments once you comment on the above and ask any questions on the above.
Then I can get into what I hated while at the Int ranch RPF, which may be too much for a single post.
All for now.
OCMB Post #17
Posted on Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 8:10 am:
to hubbard's mushroom.
Some beginning reasons why I think Scn won't succede, are below. There are more, that's all I can think of at the moment:
1) Other religions, Buddhism, Christianity, ALLOWED theological writings interpreting, and discussing the religion. That engaged the intellectual theologin type of writers, and those indviduals then kept the subjects alive with their discussions. Hubbard has allowed no such discussions of Scientology principles. By "closing the door on incorrect technology", he has closed the door on intelligent discussion of ANY of Scn writings. Compare to Christianity, with St. Augustine, and St. Thomas Aquinas, and thousands and thousands of other Christian theologins who have written thousands and thousands of books on Christianity. Same with the hundreds of Buddhism writers, even up today. Has anyone ever heard of a Scientology theologin, who writes about LRH's works, like theologins have written about Christianity? All I've seen are books against church activities and policies which are embarrassing and some horrifying.
2) There are no peers of LRH's life who he discussed his work with, no one who conversed with him in letters, or books, no peer review of his work, because no one in the intellectual world took him seriously. I was very curious about William Bourroughs, if he had much back and forth with LRH. He might be an exception, but I am almost positive that LRH and William Borroughs had NO extensive back and forth. But I could be wrong. Besides William Borroughs, I have heard of no other contemporary heavyweight writer or philosopher or theologian that took LRH seriously and conversed with him, or who themselves wrote a book in support of LRH's ideas, in the way book reviewers, scholars, and well read intellectuals respond to great new men with ideas. Joselph Campbell, LRH's editor for Astounding Science Fiction, was heavily on LRH's bandwagon, but no one else of mark jumped on. No sweeping intellectual approval ever hit the press. Walter Winchel's blurb, is hyperbole, mocked by intelligent reviewers then and now.
3) The original book reviewers of Dianetics the Modern Science of Mental Health, nailed the problem with LRH's work in general. I paraphrase, but one reviewer said LRH's hyperbole and bombast was so transparant, it is comical. That reviewer then selected quote after quote from DMSMH of LRH pumping himself and the importance of Dianetics up. It repels people to brag so offensively. LRH's bragging is too transparant, and it repels people.
4) Scn doesn't deliver the goods, I didn't see people coming in, getting blown out of their heads, becoming true OTs, with power to exteriorize with full perception, routinely, quickly, etc. If the ability to exteriorize, and operate in life, really is obtainable, then someone is hiding it. Because men on this planet for thousands of years have talked of leaving the body, but it is just not an everyday reality, flooding the headlines, with people going to Flag and getting their L rundowns, and getting interviewed about their new life fully exteriorized out-of-their-bodies. I think NO religion or spiritual practise on this planet has been able to pull off this ability like Henry Ford was able to manufacture cars. When it does happen, I'll gladly change my opinion.
4) LRH had no peers, who he was in conversation with, via letters, like any other great historical person. C of S issued to Ron Mag issues called Letters and Journals. Compare these letters and journals Ron mags, to the letters by of the thousands of serious writers and scholars in the English language. LRH is no where even close to the intellectual intelligensia category in western civilization.
There's a policy letter in OEC volume 2, which cemented my view that LRH has set a course AGAINST university trained personnel. I will have to look it up, as I don't have OEC Vol 2 to hand, but to paraphrase, LRH says don't bother to try to sell Scn to students and professors of universities, because that crowd already has all the answers. Only try to sell Scn to an individual student who has an individual problem, and use Scn to address only his personal problems. Totally fair thing to do, and I have no disagreement with the strategy, for achieving a successfully helped student. Good thing to do. I have no disagreement with Scn tech being applied by people who want to do it, and to people who want to receive it. But LRH's viewpoint is skip the intelligent people who have the answers already (implying that the intelligent people really don't have all the answers). What better way than to repel the intelligent people in the world even more. LRH does not want to engage in any philosophical discussion, or religious discussion. He preempts the whole normal tradition of discussion, and back and forth communication, that goes on between men and women who live at the same time, in the world. Where are LRH's discussions of his findings with other philosophers, discussing any of his "researches"? There might be a pitiful few here or there, which I have yet to see any. But I don't think CST/Archives has very many LRH letters to and from ANY contemporary heavy wieght philosphers or theologians, or even amongst theologins themselves on the subject of Scn. I could be wrong, since I have yet to go looking extensively, for theologins discussions. I do recall hearing one past lives magazine giving LRH an award for LRH's work in publicizing past life exploration with Scn procedures. That is a good example. That is one exception that I've seen.
This flaw of LRH not opening Scn up to debate, dooms it. It makes it into a bit of a totalitarian religion, in my opinion. And like the followers in the rock opera Tommy, "we're not going to take it" is I think the instinctive response of intellectuals when they read an HCO Policy Letter like Keeping Scientology Working #1, where LRH makes it clear the tech is by LRH, and no one else, and that is it, period. No one should even think of altering it. That comes off as arrogant. What is mankind to do once LRH is gone. By extrapolation, mankind will be pegged at the extent of research that LRH was able to do before he died. There is an ongoing tradition of intelligent, probing minds, always trying to improve the world and so forth. LRH said it all came to a pinnable with his research, and his research is good enough for mankind from here on out. This implied concept in his work repels intelligent people. He's placed Scn out of bounds to the intelligent people in western civilization who are like to discuss things, and really give it a good looking over.
5) There are certain policies, which I need to think about more, but one that comes to mind, is HCOB Clean Hands Make a Happy Life. LRH, again I paraphrase says generally something about a man has no rights who is not honest. Only honest men have rights. This is highly counter to the basic law in out society right now. All men have rights, certain rights, no matter if they are lying through their teeth or not. A policy like that one would repel most jurists, not unless they take what LRH says figuratively only.
In my final year in the RPF at the PAC RPF, while I was going through my final "route out" procedure, which took 1 year, 2 months, I read the OEC Volumes in a critical fashion. I re-listened to the Esto Tapes and the FEBC tapes, and many other LRH lecture tapes. I read hundreds of articles in encyclopedias and I read almost the entire Oxford Companion to English Literature. Reading back and forth, between LRH and encyclopedias and the Oxford Companion, (also I read hundreds of articles in the Columbia one volume encyclopedia which has EXCELLENT articles), that's how I eased myself OUT of Scn thought dominating my think.
Main reason Scn won't clear the planet, is lack of support by the public, due to the opinion leaders still being very intelligent people, who are generally repelled by LRH's works for the main reasons above. The intelligent middle class reading public get offended by LRH's solo PR campaign that runs through his works.
Hope this serves for a start for now.
OCMB Post #18
Posted on Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 8:56 am:
Thanks for the encouragement to write.
In my other long anwer to mushroom hubbard, I mentioned my reading in my final year in the RPF.
On top of that, I am in Scientology terminology, what is known as "PTS Type J" or maybe it is "K". Sorry, I don't have the LRH policy letter, but there is an LRH policy letter that I agree fits me (believe me, there are plenty of things LRH says that are simply true common knowledge and common sense things, which anyone in life believes and often learns as they encounter more and more of life, and as anyone reads extensively). What LRH calls me is "open-minded" and the connotation in Scn is negative. Because I am open to contrary views that from LRH's view are basically wishy-washy, never can decide what is true and what is not, but always going from one side of the argument to the other. My gosh, that's me, and most everyone else in life. I didn't arrive at my current views until I had some time to think about the issues, read more, think more, reflect more. I don't think life is an instant decision process. One of LRH's flaws, another one central to Scn, is right smack dab in Keeping Scientology Working, where I have to paraphrase again, but LRH says let them that want to quit fast. I was not the type who COULD QUIT FAST. That is a joke to me. I walk into Scn, because I think it like any other good mystical spiritual new age religion can give me the 10 easy steps to my own out-of-the-body-experience.
The 10 steps aren't so easy, I never got the knack, and feel no one else was mastering it like wildfire either. I thought I'd eventually get the goods in Scn, but I thought it was a joke to ask me to quit even before I got way into it. The line about quiting fast, offends my intelligence. How can I expect to really know Scn so quickly that I can quit it fast. There is SO MUCH to read, and listen to.
Well, it looks like intelligent people do just that. Quit fast. Shows you where I was at the start, and where others who may be still stuck in it are, if my logic is correct. Embarrassing.
But that is what I tell my relatives now. They ask me why, and I say, because I was dumb. Most really intelligent people don't step foot really into Scn, or the celebs get some pretty personalized service.
I think plenty of LRH's actual datums are valid. I think lots of training methodology like study tech is valid. I am no expert, so my judgement may be impared in all of my still held opinions about the things I think valid about Scn. But as I write this, yes, I still think many things are valid. But those things have been valid, and have been common sense knowledge, and are not NEW or even things I needed to be told. I had those same inherent ideas myself.
To me, if a person has not really absorbed much of a vocabulary, and then gets into Scn, and goes the training route, meaning attends course, studies tech issues, etc, then the person is being forced to absorb ideas via LRH's take on the world. His take is in my opinion just a restatement of ideas already in the world, spread all over the works of other people, and additionally, LRH's ideas are expressions of what someone who doesn't think in words or write in words, may have inherently believed himself. But because the person didn't know the words himself to be able to say what he felt, the person when he reads LRH, then blurts out how great LRH is for saying what the person felt all along. As a course supervisor, I saw students have that experience constantly while studying the OEC course, which I supervised for 4-5 years.
I myself have had that experience, where I feel I have an idea about something, but not the words, and then I read and finally cross someone who writes what I feel, and I get relief, like wow that person is wise, etc. It is just the process of one becoming more literate. So great, people become more literate, as they read, and increase their vocabulary in any subject, they start working at, and as they branch off and read more in other directions.
Scn does help produce more literate persons. I've seen that, in my years of course supervision. That's a benefit. There is an awful lot of course room activity, and people looking up words, and increasing their understanding by doing so. I enjoyed my years as a course supervisor probably most of my Sea Org jobs.
Realize that right now, I have spent the last year, reading every day. I read every day. My first 6 months out of the Sea Org, I read the New York Times Sunday paper every Sunday. I read and read and read online, all the anti-Scn sites. I read all the LRH history posts, about his records in the Navy. I read and read Gerry Armstrong's sites. I read all sorts of people's postings, the legal court docs, I really enjoyed most Vaughn Young's posts, and Jesse Prince's posts. I liked some of Vicki Aznaran's posts. I read all the David Mayo posts, and Julie Mayo posts, which were really great.
I also read several anti cult books, all the ones on the internet, the Blue Sky one, and Messiah or Madman one, every one of the books on the internet. I read the NOTs scholars site.
I am completely open-minded, and I really think the Scn Creed point about letting people think and write freely, is a very good policy. It's what makes America a good place, and what makes intellectual life amongst the top intelligensia in western culture such an interesting environment.
I read the NY Times before I got into the Sea Org, that's why I went back to it, to get my head back on straight, when I got out of the Sea Org. (You'd think I was peddling subscriptions to the NY Times, but I do really like it.)
I hated not being able to read in the RPF, but I made do with the encyclopedias, as I mentioned above somewhere.
Anyways, you know another guy who I consider really pretty sharp, who got out in 2002, who you probably read about, is Dan Garvin. I know and like Dan alot. The joke behind Dan's back was Dan was always walking around most of the time with some "wog" book he was reading. Goes to show you, people who read other books, can find their way OUT of the Sea Org, no matter how long they been in there (maybe, might be a weak argument, because more non-readers defect I think, but it needs more research).
Sorry, that's all I can do for now.
Best, Chuck Beatty
FACTNET POST #10
Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 09:51 pm
Re: 4 more questions.
My pleasure entirely, to offer ANY and ALL data I have on events I even heard rumored about.
I very much want to express what I know, and to me it is a great relief to hear someone like yourself interested. I so much want to fill in any bits of mystery, that I can for anyone who got ousted out of the Sea Org, and especially from the Int Base.
There is so much to say about the atmosphere there, over the years, the fads, the people, and the failings, the tragicomedy victories. It really is an intense experience, for both the survivors (meaning those who are still there, doing the daily balancing act, trying to remain there at the pinnable of the Scn movement), and for those who got blown out of that space, for whatever reasons.
So many great people I saw get ejected, I just want to hear everyone's stories from their life at the top, and fill anyone who wants, in on what I know of what happened after anyone's time there.
Here are your answers, to your 4 questions, best I can do:
1) '95 to '03, re Lisa McPherson. I know in late Nov or Dec, Warren McShane was busted at RTC Int, for some fuckup of his own, re whatever he was doing the final months of 95. I was in the same "decks dorm" out adjacent to the M & M building (Maintenance Man house, as it is nicknamed, it's the house just west and a little closer to the highway, from OGH (Old Gilman House)). I shared the RTC deckies dorm there, for about 3 nights, before Warren got off the decks, he must have graduated. But whatever he was working on, he must have slipped up, so whoever he was trying to nail out there, realize he messed up on some aspect, if that is any consolation to whomever he was trying to nail. I think Arnie Lerma was his target, and Warren's fuckup was something to do Arnie's cycle at that time.
Re LMT, I was not able to get any news at all, other than much later. When in Nov 2000 I got transferred to the PAC RPF, I met up with Brian Anderson, who was busted for his truly dismal defense of the church in Clearwater. He said horrendously blunderous statements to the press, and was rightly RPFed, and sent out to the PAC RPF (my comment is from the Scn viewpoint, from my viewpoint, I think Brian's blunderous press statements truly show realistically how incompetent OSA can be at trying to apply LRH's Handlign Black PR policy letter, which personally I think is poor policy to try to follow per the letter, so I personally rate Brian's blunders as a more compassionate, sane response, even if it fails by church standards, meaning I think honesty, no matter how bad it makes someone or some group look, is better than hiding behind a wall of "no-answer" and misdirection, which I feel is more harmful in setting a "bad example" to the rest of mankind, especially if we all agree that truth, and taking responsibility is ultimately the correct path in life), anyways Brian I liked, even though he shouldn't have been on that post, he was not adept enough at his PR series in action. He was really bad with reporters on LMT, as reported in the press. And Brian was on the PAC RPF up even until I was still there in 2003, March. Brian is actually a candidate someday, to possibly defect, in my view. He is basically someone stubborn enough to want to be honest, and inherently unable to apply the slick procedures in How to Handle Black PR. But his wife, is such a great woman, and he has a home there in CW, so he's got that barrier, from ever coming out, and probably won't be a good defector candidate really.
Another LMT tread. I roomed from about April 2003 to June 2004, at an Scn rooming house (meaning the house owener and all the guests, 8 or so people, were all either LA Fdn staff or Scn public), and my roommate was one of the stupidly bright or ignorant persons who drove Lisa to the Fort Harrison in the first place. He was in the car, and helped get her checked into the FH. That was a totally off the wall cycle, they (my former roommate and the other employee or friend of Lisa) were clueless of the ramifications. My roommate's name is Ray Hemphill. He worked at the same place, which Benita (?) Slaughter headed and she was Lisa's boss also. Ray due to his own difficulties with his own wife later going Type III, Ray had to leave Clearwater, to disconnect from his wife. Anyways, this is just a sidelight, and not what you wanted to know, but an interesting detail.
So those are two sideline players, and two sideline incidents I got from those two LMT related church side individuals.
Jesse Prince. He is a remarkable individual, who I met at Flag, when he first came to be Flag crew. I was the OEC Sup in Int Training Org, and Jesse at first was in Int Training Org, when all the FSO Cram Offs and tech people were all put into the Int Training Org (ITO). He was always a great person in my book. That was 78 or 79 at the Clearwater Building, when he would come over for the ITO staff meeting, Friday nights, or for a "tech" meeting of all the tech personnel in ITO at that time, occassionally held by Maxine Hanson who may have been the ITO Tech Sec, or the D of T.
I knew Sonny, his wife at the time, very well. I worked with Sonny, now Sonny Klinsik, off and on over the years.
I also knew his wife Monica (Rosdorf, I seem to recall was her last name, and her sister was later CO CMO Ship for a couple years, her sister lasted longer and held the CO post in the CMO cont units a few times, Monica didn't make it totally at CMO Int, and ended up in Gold or CMO Gold, not sure exactly), but I knew Monica well enough, that she and I would say hello in the 80's when I was uplines and walking from one building to another, or on Renos day, during Renos activities, since I was her Sup at Flag on her CMO EPF, I pretty much built a pretty good social bond with most persons I supervised in my Sea Org career).
Jesse and I were really only acquaintences, but I know him, and he would know me. I was at ITO (Int Training Org at the Flag Land Base) when he got snagged to become IG Cram Off RTC, and disappeared uplines. We knew where he went, as soon as we heard he was IG Cram Off. Jesse would know me, and I'd really like to meet and talk to him someday. I admire his excellent postings, the taped interviews with Larry Wollersheim. They are among my most favorite. I wish him well for all time.
Later in 82, fall I believe, Jesse as IG Cram Off, and Ray Mitoff, as Snr C/S Int, paid my OEC Courseroom, then in the Clearwater Building at the Flag Land Base, the obligatory visit (per HCOB Courses, Their Ideal Scene, all missions have a final target to inspect the course rooms, and note outnesses and order them handled). Jesse at that time, was very tough, had the tough, uncompormising edge to his beingness. He wasn't the warm guy at that time. Anyways, Ray Mitoff gave me a two week TM to submit a new OEC checksheet, since the checksheet my students were using was last written by Jon Horwich, and had many features not considered standard at that time (myself, I have mixed feeling re Jon Horwich and the OEC checksheet, and a bit of track on trying to deal with that checksheet). Anyways, I could go on on the checksheet, but won't for now.
Jesse looked and acted very tough, no nonsense. I took him very seriously, but realize, I'd been there at Flag longer, had seen far tougher and smarter guys already climb and fall, so I always tried to give anyone both the benefit of the doubt, plus I was so reasonable, I didn't think much of his tough image as I knew it was his job, and that someone had gotten him drummed up into that "tough" beingness. (More on that fad of the "tough" beingness that pervaded all the top guys in Mgmt at that particular time, meaning Wendell Reynolds, Miscavage, Mitoff never really pulled off the tough guy image because he is just too nice of human being in my book, Vicki, Jesse, Lyman Spurlock, Steve Marlowe, Marc Yaeger and all the others trying all to ack like Miscavage).
I was at Int various times from Jul 83 till summer 87, and off and on saw Jesse, just glimpsed him. In 83 - 84 he was IG Cram Off, I believe, and a head honcho. I always thought unfortunately he didn't have the policy background he needed, but that may not have mattered, since I knew he dealt with so much wierd shit on his post, handling ridiculous types of horrendous flaps (from reading his postings I got that he had some really bad things to participate in and sort out). Whatever, that transition period when the Flag Mgmt collapsed, and Int Mgmt took over, and the dead bodies were fresh on everyone's minds, and the dead bodies were always the "who's" on any eval on anything at that time, and so many major flaps, it was just a real battle compared to the times now. The Crusade at Portland in 84, etc.
I supervised Monica, his wife after Sonny, when she was just a green CMO CW staffer, around 1980 or maybe early 1981, before she went uplines, and I think in the 80's maybe late 80's or early 90's
He visited me later, personnaly, with Ray Mitoff,
I saw him briefly in the period AFTER his RPF assignment, probably around late 89 or 90 or 91, when I was involved with the routing forms project again, this time I was under INCOMM and the RTC Computerization Dir (Pascal Julliene, who blew to Copenhagen, he might be a great defecter to enlighten us about the period in the late 80's as he is very talkative type of guy, and a great source if someone can dig Pascal up). I saw and heard about the "famous" fist fight between Spike Bush and Jesse. I never heard about the Jesse and DM scene, with the machine gun, until I read the post by Jesse. That was a very tragic moment, in my opinion, the unfortunate final result of the whole Miscavage tough guy period. That would have been a complete tragedy had Jesse not finally come to grips with the insanity of all that led up to that moment. The underlying insanity I don't think is inherent in people's "evil purposes" as Hubbard tries to isolate. Not unless it was Hubbard's unhandled "evil purposes" themselves, which are at the root of Hubbard's policies and advices which in turn dedicated Sea Org staff by trying to apply such inherently twisted policies, their actions resulted in the types of huge fiasco's and blowups in people's lives within the top of the Sea Org at that time, and all down the command channels and into the Scn public, and then into the wog world, and then reverberating back on Scn, with the media picking up and reporting on the shattered lives and abuses.
LRH is aware of all of this, and a careful reading widely of all his policies, he tried to contain all these bad effects. But, as a man, I feel he himself has some serious blind spots, which are the MAJOR points, I wish to write on, as I think more on those points, over the months and years to come.
I'd love to meet Jesse and talk to him someday. I believe he is Christian. I hope he can handle me being an agnostic/atheist (non-believer in God until proven otherwise, is my stance). I respect Jesse for coming out, and think his judgement is excellent.
Re other RPF busts, that I know of. Yes, I do. Marc Yaeger, whom I have always respected, and still do, was declared SP by Miscavge in Jan 96. I have lots of details of his arriving at the Int RPF, but that should be a separate post. Marc is an impressive person. He did a great job, in my opinion, of running CMO Int during his years. I don't know what happened to get him busted, but I think he got into blaming and being too "tough" on people in the end, and I didn't read his declare, I saw it in a Security Guard's hands, about 5 feet away from my eyes, and only saw he was declared. The big guy's declare issues, like Jeff Walker's back in 1989, sometimes are only two sentences long, and issued only at the Base.
I heard that COB (Miscavage) gave a very balanced breifing that same day, which I couldn't attend, I was on the decks, with doubts about turning into an enemy of th church, so wasn't invited at that time. I was the only person on the decks, since all persons were ordered to get into Normal so they could enjoy the Christmas activites that year (95 Christmas, 96 New years), and Marc was the first MAJOR new bust of the new year. It probably was coming for weeks or months, and finally the ax fell on him. One thing in the final years up to Jan 96, for Marc, he was known not to smile at all around staff, which is just an odd detail, but he was pretty tough is all I got. The exact screwups, it must have been due to CMO Int not pulling its weight, and Marc going unusual, my guess.
He arrived at the Int RPF in 97 I believe, after spending the mean time at the "swamp" area between OGH (Old Gilman House and the Horwich House), which he dutifully cleared himself a spot for that small aluminum trailer/coach which was his home for that year, as he got extensive auditing, which one can assume was by the best sec checker RTC has, who I don't know who it was, sorry. I ran into him from time to time, as all the deckies in Jan, Feb 96, shared the same shower which was in the M & M (Maintenance Man) building, about 30 yards from the swamp and Marc's small aluminum mobile trailer home.
On the RPF, from 97 till summer or fall of 1999, he rose to the Int RPF Bosun, was a good Bosun, I had one or two ethics handlings with him as a terminal for me. I liked him, he is a very above average person, extremely intelligent, and fair in the years on the Int RPF that I knew him.
Ray Mitoff was also RPFed in 98 or 99, and Ray is also in my book, an exceptional person. Very compassionate. I have read very bad things about Ray gloating over Mary Sue's disappointment on Ray telling her that LRH had nothing to tell Mary Sue on LRH's deathbed, and I have to this day not grasped why there was amongst the top RTCers, such hatred for Mary Sue. (I know very little of Mary Sue's character, other than what LRH says of her, and what she herself wrote in the many issues she's written over the years. She's a whole seperate major posting, and subject, and personally I dream of her writing of her life with LRH, just for historical purposes, that would be MAJOR, no matter what slant she has on all the events, just having her voice recorded for all time, historically, to me is SO important, I hope it somehow occurs, and believe me I understand how many other posters and ex-SO think I am dreaming bigtime, but still I hope she can surface and write something about her life and LRH, just for the f-ing record!
Rinder, in 81 or 82, was labelled by LRH in an advice as a " ...yoyo on my lines..." (my paraphrase). That preceded his eventual bust in 1983, summer I think, as Chief Off CMO Int. Realize this about Mike's track. He was Chief Off FB, and a stable one, under Kerry Gleason. He was Chief Off under Marc Yaeger for some time in 82 to 83, until I think the summer of 83, when he was busted. I am sorry to say I don't know for sure if he did the RPF in 83. He might have, and if he did, then PLENTY of people would remember that. He may have come down to PAC and done the RPF there, I just can't recall, but that is NOT new news, if he did. Others would have noted that fact years ago.
From Jul 96 to Nov 2000, I can attest that Mike Rinder was NOT on the Int RPF at Happy Valley.
And he was NOT on the PAC RPF from Nov 2000 til Mar 2003.
Mithoff and Yaeger graduated around the same time, fall of 1999, and both spoke at the New Years "2000" event. The Int RPF (and PAC RPF) watches videos of all the events, like a week after the events occur, and we cheered and cheered seeing Marc and Ray on the podium at the New Year's 2000 event (the stage elements which we also built and were prowd to see looking so grand also). Realize the atmosphere was very HIGH at the Int RPF, all the years I was there, compared to past years. Some individuals may have had their personal tragedies occuring, I can relate one or two, but I loved the place and the work and the people on the RPF and the ranch staff who I worked for, etc, like I said in my other postings on it.
Marty Rathbun I think blew within a couple of months of the October 1993 IAS event, where the huge IRS win was announced. Not sure why, only heard from Susy Watson Tayloer, sometime about a year later, like late 94 or early 95, that that occurred. My recall is certain on his blowing, and being recovered, and then getting the whole auditing program, and there should be plenty of others who can corroborate that. I don't know the details, but surmise he blew under the threat and ramifications if the IRS agreement came apart at the seams, and fortunately (for him) or unfortunately (for others), it didn't unravel, and still stands, was a good thing for Marty's future at the top.
Personally I don't like Marty as much as I like Greg Wilhere, Ray Mithoff, Marc Yaeger, Norman Starkey, and others. I think he doesn't fully grasp with full understanding other people's painful predicaments, and tends to chuckle too much at other's sufferings. He did so face to face with me, which is why I say this. Steve Marlowe and Marty Rathbun to me are similar in character. While they can be magnanimous, gracious and polite, I perceived a lack of empathy in them. I think each needs to have a few more personal crashes, then they will get more empathy for their fellows. I could be way off, and probably am, but from them I personally experienced a lack of empathy, which was my last direct conversation with them both.
I saw Marty when he came to the Int RPF, to brief the Int RPFers of Ray Mitoff's soon-to-occur arrival to the Int RPF, and Marty told us in general terms why Ray was coming (which was for messing up on getting the Golden Age of Tech implemented in the orgs, with some specifics, which are neither hear nor there in my opinion, I have a long range leaning in support of Ray Mitoff, and I hate seeing the top execs get busted personally, I like to see stability at the top, I have lots to say on this, which I'll save for other posts).
Another great person who I like, who got RPFed was Mike Sutter. In 97 or 98, he must have fucked up bigtime on whatever he was trying to handle, and joined the Int RPF. I knew Mike since 77 or 78, and always liked him. I had some awkward moments on the Int RPF, the time the rule went into effect that we had to turn over our driver's licenses, all val docs like birth certs, credit cards, and all cash, except we were allowed to keep 25 dollars. I told him and I knew he knew that legally we had a right NOT to agree to that, and that there was NO LRH policy in existence saying we had to do that. He agreed and said I was right, but I buckled and gave my val docs, and money anyways. I always buckled when I was inside, and that's why it took me 7 years to finally ease myself out. I could wait, I can take my time, that is the kind of guy I am.
That's why I am posting now, by the way. I knew I always eventually would, no matter what handlings I got over the years. I liked Mike, because of all my 7 years on the RPF, he make a comment that most duplicated me and he knew in 97 or 98 where I was eventually headed, which is posting like I am right now. I asked him, in his experience with the guys who go south (like the flappy Int staff who route out, blow, the ones causing trouble in the 80's and 90's who were already out there), I wanted to know in his opinion, knowing all the things I was saying at that time ( I had continual, weekly blow thoughts, escape plans all the time, worries about being another "Vaughn Young"), I wanted to know in his opinion, how realistic was it for me to basically "make it back" to "normal", meaning to ever be trusted again and hold a post at Gold or even in the Sea Org, like Pac Base Crew (the CLO Western United States estates org today). Mike gave me the kind of answer that I so respected him for, an honest one. He said I had a VERY long way to go, which to me was the most conversation I'd had in my 1-2 years on the Int RPF at that time. He said it with the warm, subdued, matter of fact smile of his. I like and will always respect Mike and the other RTC staff who are really good people in general.
Anyways there were many others who I could list all made it to the Int RPF, but the above are the big ones I can remember at the moment.
Fourth question, re was OSA using INCOMM for storing data on SP's. My answer is emphatically NO. They had their own invest files (my former wife, Janet Parker, was the file clerk for those files, and on top of those files, I believe they have some even hotter set of files) and all those files are kept right in the OSA offices, in standalone computers. No, neither INCOMM LA nor INCOMM Int, stored any of those files, if I understand what you are saying.
At OSA, there are files that have the most sensitive personal data on people. Those are only at the HGB as far as I know.
Dan Garvin will be able to tell the answer to that with complete authority.
Again, realize my data is only good up until 1995, end of that year.
I only have staff qualifications data, and only on Sea Org members up to CMO Int staff level, and not on the senior CMO Int staff level.
INCOMM Int has a Personnel Files data base on the computer, which has the Life History data on everyone, at all the Int and HGB level orgs.
I didn't see the OSA Int Pers filels, but I did see hundreds of Gold, CMO Int, HGB org staff, and CMO Cont unit, pers files, when in Nov and Dec 1995, I was on post as Exec Esto ASI, which I failed at miserably, apparantly. (My senior was Barbara Ruiz, and about the most illiterate senior exec in the upper levels of top mgmt, and a complete out of control temper at times, and I decided I could not stay at ASI, on top of the fact that I was unqualled in fact to have ever been promoted to an Int level org like ASI in the first place. (People like myself, with deeply hidden disaffection, normally are screened out, but I had layers of justifications for my behavior, another whole story some other time.)
I felt so guilty reading the various dirty pasts of people, as Exec Esto (in-training) in that 2-3 week time period, it flushed to my own view my own out-quals to be at ASI or at any Int level org. So I tread through my readings of other's lives, based on their Life History data mainly, guiltily and gently, and sort of installed a forgetter idea so I would not be sitting there in the future thinking about some woman's out-2D, next time I walked by her at Int or at the HGB. But yes, these is personal data on the Int Pers system. All the senior execs data is NOT available though, at least not to me, and I saw nothing on ANY of the senior execs.
Okay, that's all your questions.
You sound like a very intelligent critic. Your questions are very precise. Hope I can assist you further in whatever direction you need to look.
FACTNET POST #11
Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 10:10 pm
To Basic Basic.
Hi. While I read stats for years, from 84 until 90, I used to be involved with the weekly stat evolution, and saw the stats over the years.
I sort of lost touch.
I can tell you that Flag Service Org is probably still the largest cash income producer for the Scn movement, and was for years averaging from a million to 2 million dollars gross income per week.
I don't imagine that has changed. Better to ask a recent ex-FSO staffer, as the weekly gross income is usually read off at the weekly FSO staff meeting on Friday evening.
But like you, possibly, I was puzzled why in recent years, at the March 13, LRH Birthday Game event, this past year, NO stats were mentioned.
It generally means poor stats.
In a way I am sorry, as I know this means a lot of internal pressure on the lives of the Sea Org members, who are responsible for seeing stats in their zones of responsibility raise. It has all sorts of implications, it means evals will be hot and heavy, and Exec Strata is heavily under the gun if stats are down, and CMO Int too, and the HGB middle management units, and the CLOs, etc.
But it also could be, the stats are unannounced for the mundane reason that public are tired of the long stretches of the Mar 13 event, when the public has to applaud over and over and over, even if the stats are highest evers. This is a lesser possibility but possible.
In events over the years, I remember past events going on and on on the stats at Mar 13, and feeling bored myself. But this year at the Mar 13 event, they should have had some stats mentioned at least, but I don't know honestly why.
Last I remembered, to answer, the Class 5 sector, which is overseen by the WDC member entitled "WDC Scientology", which was held for years by Sue Bolstad, who I think was a really great exec for the most part. In the mid 90's I think the total of all the Class 5 orgs was over a million gross income a week, about the same as FSO. I can't really be sure, this is just my best recollection. It could have been anywhere from 500 G's a week to around a million (in peak weeks). That's my best guess.
I take it you understand there are separate sectors, as laid out in the What is Scn book, and they each have a huge number of stats tailormade for each sector. Each has gross income ($), and when I said FSO is the biggest income maker, I am refering to comparing the FSO to the other "sectors" (like WISE, SMI, Class 5 orgs, Sea Org Orgs, ABLE, and whatever the rest are, I don't have on the top of my head).
FACTNET POST #12
Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 10:50 pm
Dear Anonymous, and UMike.
Thanks very much for your input.
My personality, I am what the Scientologists call "open-mined" and "reasonable". In their sense negative, in my sense, I think it a good thing. I am myself, so I consider how I am as an okay thing.
I truly am such. I skim right over almost every person's insanities, and try to look on the good side.
I got into Scn, and stuck by the group, for 27 years. That says alot in all sorts of directions, if you follow my point. I was reasonable about Scn's failings, and on the other side, my posts show how much I liked the people and the work I did in it.
I feel the same way about Gerry, Arnie, Tory, I appreciate all of the good work (meaning their exposing of actual events that have been hidden for so long). I don't think the truth hurts anyone. A person who does wrong may have to "cave-in", but unless you are executed, you go on with life, and I think inherently, getting all the bits of truth out (even if amidst anyone's side comments that to some all sorts of bad adjective should apply).
I have ABSOLUTELY NO problem sifting through the writings in ANY of the anti-Scn sites, and picking out the gems of truth. It is easy for me to see what is true, what is just side comments.
It is possible, some of the gems might be in fact wrong, or slanted. But I have refiling truth as false, once I am convnced it is now false, and if two truths conflict, I can file the two "truths" in my mind, until I get enough data that shows one or neither are really true.
I will always be grateful to one and all critics, for ANY correct postings of information. And all the critics sites I've read so far, I truly appreciate.
I truly appreciate both your active participation with the ongoing process, of discussing the Scn movement.
I am happy to answer any questions from anyone about what I observed or my opinions on matters.
There is a big suppressed thought process going on in the minds of the people working in the Sea Org at Int. They have thousands of suppressed opinions and thoughts, in their environment, which this Factnet site, and the other sites someday I hope will be the location of where they can finally surface with their views on what they have experienced over the years, while working inside the Sea Org at the upper levels.
So I am all for this site and the others going on for years and years to come.
Thanks for your guys' advice, I know you don't want me falling off into any ruts, on my way out.
Thanks for your care.
FACTNET POST #13
Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 11:54 pm
I thought that Jesse Prince in his taped sessions with Wollersheim, goes over Pat blowing.
Sorry, I can't point you further. Sorry.
On CST, I knew CO CST, I knew the last two CST commanding Officers, up to 1995, both great guys, as are almost ALL commanding officers of the Int level orgs.
This whole wonky CST computer site, that is obviously a deluded individual, and/or a sloppy disinformation site.
I know that CST is supposed to be unbelievably secure. Realize it IS the site of LRH's original manscripts, and probably all of LRH's pc folders, which contain all his upper level research raw data. So even if you don't respect Scn in any way, realize that CST is about the most important few acres of this planet to those top Sea Org members who DO place the highest value on LRH's original materials, and the preservation of them, in the LONG term, from their beliefs in future lives, and the precarious situation of this planet, with nucleur weapons still enough to wipe out the planet.
But anyone who reads the newspapers, read the Wall Street Journal or NY Times article detailing the IRS 93 settlement, CST is mentioned and its rough location. I for sure read somewhere on the anti-Scn sites, somewhere the location.
It was common knowledge around 83 or 84 at the Int Base, when CST was being manned up (I know because EVERYONE was being considered to be a staff there), I knew of people who went from the Int base to go be the forming Sea Org staff at the CST site, which is somewhere obviously not far (meaning less than 5-6 hours) from the Int Base. Sorry, you can dig this up, if you hunt the internet enough, and find the city and location, because I saw newspaper photos of the CST site, and read articles on it.
That's what I know.
Miscavage is way way above CST. CST is off to the side, but incredibly important (as I outlined above).
ASI staff, like Norman Starkey, helped with overseeing CST. ASI collects LRH's book royalties, from which the funding for CST (building the underground vault, paying for all the metal containers and materials that LRH's works are printed on, and stored), the whole CST operation is funded with LRH's personal royaly income that flows from ASI to CST, weekly. This is in alignment with what LRH most wanted about his own personal fortune. He devoted it to the upkeep of his tech, in as long lasting of a form as humanly possible, which is what CST staff have been doing for years. They are probably still working on the transcription of LRH's tens of thousands of tape lectures, and getting all those in the unperishable form and into the metal capsules and into the big vault or vaults at the CST site.
COB RTC (Miscavage) since he used to be COB ASI knows the whole evolution of CST Archives from day one, meaning the staffing, and every major and minor turn in the history of the place. He probably receives a report, info copy, from CO CST, weekly.
PS: re CST (lawyers), I don't know. I know that at ASI, when Miscavage was COB ASI, he for sure used LRH's hired lawyers, in setting up CST, I can't imagine him doing otherwise. LRH wanted CST to have the originals, and LRH wanted CST to do the project it is doing. CST staff today are executing what LRH wanted, to ensure his tech is preserved eternally. I did read other advices, where LRH is toying with the idea to have his works translated into what LRH called "lingua spacia". This is really a wholetrack advice, I saw sometime in '83-84 on a project I was doing at Int. That advice I recall had to do with preserving LRH's materials in that "lingua spacia" for what I now can only guess was future immediate use by people from other planets, to quickly understand LRH's work.
I am sure Miscavage is only doing what LRH wanted, that is completely my take on what he did in 82 or 83 or 84 whenever CST was set up ultimately, I think it was 82-83.
At ASI in 93-94, I didn't track totally as I skimmed reading over a lot of the ASI advices, on these details, but what I say here, is what I believe, from as close as I got to the evidence supporting what I say here.
ARS POST #1
From: Chuckbeatty77 ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Another story by an ex member 27 year member Chuch Beatty discusses INCOMM
Date: 2004-08-22 23:57:42 PST
I am brand new, this is my very first answer to an ARS message. I am chuck Beatty, the 27 year , Ex-SO vet, '75-'03, and you are asking about RTS. Well, my guess is that this refers to Revolt in the Stars, the LRH film script, written in late 70's or very early 80's, by LRH, and which ASI is still sitting on. It's a pretty close to the OT 3 story, movie script that LRH wrote. I saw the story board audio presentation, while at ASI, and it ends with the space ship being pulled up from the ocean, and the movie starts playing of the whole story, in video form, and the spectators looking at the space ship, include I think the President of the US.
I was at ASI from May 92 till I went off to go on the decks, and then the Int RPF.
I left LA to go to the decks, on about 19 Dec 1995. I hit the RPF finally at Happy Valley, around Jun or Jul 96. Stayed at Happy Valley, never leaving the ranch, until Nov 2000, when I returned to LA, having transferred to the PAC RPF, where I stayed still I routed out, leaving the Sea Org, and walking down the street away from the complex (big blue building) on Mar 28, 2003. Ask me whatever you want. I will try to figure out how to answer any further questions. I am not familiar with how to use this ARS system.
ARS POST #2
From: Chuckbeatty77 ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Chuck Beatty (ex-Sea Org) 1975-2003
Date: 2004-08-23 00:25:43 PST
Dear Keith Hensen,
I knew Tom R well. We both worked as computer operations officers at INCOMM, I luckily got promoted to ASI (or unluckily, whatever), and was there when he got toasted. I did get brought over to the INCOMM space, and was sec checked to see if I'd done anything similar. I passed, then. I know Dan Garvin well, and I read Dan's post, but since when you are on the inside, I didn't ask questions about things like that, INCOMM staff didn't talk, and only when I read Dan's post, when I got out, did I know the details. I knew John Busby very well, he was also RPFed after the Tom R flap. I just know Tom's cycle was a big screwup, as Tom was not quite with it like normal SO members entrusted to as much access as he had. One of the repeating problems with INCOMM operations personnel. In prior years RTC used to sec check the INCOMM operations personnel routinely, and almost every couple of years, one operations personnel would be toasted. Snooping on COB's files on his computer was an instant post removal offense. I did a mild version of that, and was instantly charged with being disaffected with COB (Miscavage), but I only admitted that crime, after I had already been shot for other major fuckups on my part. Like I had nothing to lose, when I told that mild crime. I just checked to see how many documents he had in his word processing folder, because my rationale was I could then see what kind of exec he really was, if his word processing folder had an execessive number of documents in it. Alas, he had a very reasonably small amount of word processing docs listed, and I was mildly impressed. Most other execs in the Sea Org had slews of docs in their Word Processing folder. He passed, I failed, and I'd never ever again be able to work in the INCOMM computer operations room due to that minor snoopiness on my part. I went to the RPF for other offences, but betraying senior exec trust not to even do such things as even mildly snoop, was fatal for an INCOMM computer operations person.
I wasn't at INCOMM when I divulged that crime, I divulged that crime 3-4 years later, when I was busted from an exec post at ASI, and I was on the decks at CMO Int.
I was on the Int RPF, and we got told about Stacy one day at the Int RPF site.
The rumor was she fuckedup two ways. One she went into the vault alone, which was completely taboo, it is always a two man entry procedure. And I heard she was going back into the vault to pick up something she left, when she'd been in the vault earlier. Like some piece of equipment. That's my vague recollection of the rumor I heard while on the Int RPF.
Also later, when I reached the PAC RPF, Stacy's step brother, Brandon Pearson, whose real mom married Stacy's dad, Brandon was one of the CMO Gold MAAs, and the MAA for the org Stacy was associated with, since I think she was in HU (Household UNit), I may be wrong, all I know is Brandon was my first twin when I transferred to the PAC RPF. Brandon told me he was on the RPF due to his negligence in handling Stacy's PTSness. Needless to say, Brandon this did not setp right with Brandon, who was about 19 years old, and that weight, his step-sister's death on his shoulders, was just an unbearable weight (in my opinion). He did pretty poorly on the RPF, and even in the end was in the same category as me, wanting to "route out". Then he did a petition on his whole RPF assignment, and in late 2002, his RPF assignment was cancelled, and it was like a miracle for him. The false burden of Stacy's death (in my opinion) was lifted off his shoulders, and he was ecstatic and went onto post at AOLA, and was doing well as far as I know, when I left the PAC complex, in Mar 2003.
That's all I have on this for you.
Best, Chuck Beatty
ARS POST #3
From: Chuckbeatty77 ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Anne Broeker, Cassavias Tabayoyan and more
Date: 2004-08-23 00:32:42 PST
I was the poster of this data on Cassavias.
One note, Dan Prbyzylsku, was busted as CO CST, replaced by Russ Bellam, and Dan got RPFed, finished the RPF, then became the CO of the Int Ranch, until he was promoted to the Mission to debug and handle the berthing buildings at the Base. He blew from that Mission, was RPFed into the PAC RPF, graduated, and now Dan is working at AOLA.
Int 2002, 2003 quite a few Int level personnel on the Int RPF (myself being the first of the wave) were demoted down to CLO WUS status, and all put in the PAC RPF. I met up with Dan on the PAC RPF (after his blow from the Berthing Building Pjt uplines, as covered above), and I was still on the PAC RPF when Dan graduated and went onto AOLA staff.
I routed out in Mar 2003. I spent a year in LA, then moved out to Pittsburgh, and live with my sister now. I just started using my name and posting freely within the last day or two.
ARS POST #4
From: Chuckbeatty77 ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Anne Broeker, Cassavias Tabayoyan and more
Date: 2004-08-23 00:44:42 PST
Dear Dave ,
Hi, I'm Chuck Beatty, I live here in Pittsburgh, out in Carnegie.
I can come visit you anytime you can see me.
I will tell you anything you want. give me a number to call you.
I had planned to hook up with you. I have been here in Pittsburgh (Carnegie) since about the 8th of July. I got a job, got a little stability, and I just started coming out fully.
I read some of your site, and I spoke with Arnie Lerma on the phone, and amongst other things, he told me to just contact you, like you'd be interested. I'd be interested in telling you anything I know, and writing anything I know, whatever you need.
OCMB Post #19
Posted on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 7:02 am:
Thankyou Stanley, Sarah, for the welcome out.
neil C, what years were you ITO and Pac Base Crew?
Sea Orgre, I got to 124 some pc folders. Clear, then undeclared Clear. Into Grade 3, lower grades. No confid levels, no BT swatting, no old OT levels, etc, no power. Just thousands of hours of R3RA, old standard dianetics, '75 style. Then thousands and thousands and thousands of FPRD, HRD, TRD (Truth Rundown), and a few hundred hours of sec checking.
Larry, I agree with you exactly on study tech, and lack of wog school dictionary use.
Thanks Ball of fluff, I unfortunately haven't figured out how to do ARS, I will have to phone someone and get walked through it. Glad my posts are going around.
Answer for Free at Last. I went out normal, routed out. I have just started posting, and I haven't been contacted or declared yet. If you mean others who routed out, then I know about 30-40 persons were recently, in 2003-2004 routed out of the PAC RPF. Give me another post telling me if you want the guys in good graces, who I know. Bad graces, like blows, I can also answer. Ask me again, so I can do a separate post to you. I recall blows from the Int RPF (96-2000) and then 3 SP declares and off-loads from the PAC RPF, and at least a dozen of off-loads from the PAC RPF I can recall by name, and I heard PAC RPF unloaded (off-loads) altogether about 40 persons in 2003-2004.
Thanks for all the welcomes from everyone.
Tory, I will phone you for Dan's number. I just listened to his radio show he did last year or so, was a great 1 hour radio show. He's a good speaker.
My purpose still is to answer any questions I can, and if I forgot one you had, please forgive, and ask again.
FACTNET POST #14
Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 05:27 am
RE: PTS Type III, and blowing, and the policy on person's wanting to leave the Sea Org being labelled "psychotic" by LRH
I have had considerable personal thought about this. I myself think that if you believe that LRH must be right, and then try to apply some LRH datum to yourself, mentally trying to figure out how it applies to you, and you go round and round, especially this thing about being "psychotic" if you have blowing on your mind, this is truly a combination of a catch 22 and completely devious and frankly arrogant misdirecter on LRH's part, to heap all the blame on the person wanting to leave.
This policy alone is almost a self brainwashing type of catch 22 self-invalidative mechanism, to lower a person's self esteem.
Personally, I think you have isolated one KEY KEY method that the group uses, to keep members inside. It is a horrendous piece of cruelty that hundreds probably thousands of persons leaving the Sea Org, have spent some moments torturing themselves with the thoughts that LRH (the person they probably previously trusted, respected, dedicated their lives to), now in policy is guiding them into such self-invalidative self-critical thoughts. It is positively criminal in my opinion now.
When I was inside, all I did was completely agree with it, and thought I was "psychotic", and to the Sea Org, I guess you are, and they keep you under "watch" during those times you express doubts about wanting to stay.
I found that experience, of being under watch THE MOST HUMILIATING experience. I hated it. And I had to endure it probably about 4 of my 7 years on the RPF.
My advice to anyone torturing themselves with the logic of this "you are pyschotic if you want to leave" logic, is to not believe it. Don't believe it is true for you. You don't have to believe anything LRH says, per the other LRH data about not compromising your own reality.
Another variation of this same catch 22 self-induced mislabelling oneself a "psychotic" is the datum that only SP's don't think they are SP. If you think you are SP, you aren't one likely. Well a normal person won't think themselves SP, so that gives you an idea of LRH's view of people. Only person's caved in enough to think themselves SPs are then given compassion and told they aren't. It turns someone into complete effect, and can drive you nuts, if you don't think yourself an SP. Oh, I think I'm an SP, therefore that proves I'm not. Later, I'm no SP, but wait, if I don't think I'm not an SP, then I must be, because only SPs don't believe they are SPs. Come on, what gives! It's a vicious circle, enough to drive anyone trying to figure out what they are, around and around.
This question, isolates one of the most serious flaws in Scn. This should repel any intelligent person from getting into the subject, if the subject has such head spinning catch 22s, which are about the most invalidative catch 22s in the whole subject of Scn.
This is NOT a light matter. It is really a degrade to any human being to put them through these twists of self-invalidative illogic.
Now to the question, if persons in the Sea Org might intentionally be declaring persons who wanted to blow as type III, I can only say it is conceivable, and could be an accidental result of the fact that people leaving may be informed by reading the issues that state that people wanting to leave are "psychotic", and after reading this, the person might so protest, that they then start acting like a Type II because they are SO FUCKING pissed off at being called crazy, when all they want to do is leave.
I think the church is fucking with people, and the tech on life in certain instances, from my viewpoint now, is irresponsibly being applied, due to LRH just not knowing how to handle people. His word is scripture, the church has to follow scripture, his words are CREATING upsets in people's lives, like these two insance self-invalidate catch 22 ciruclar arguments, which land a person in an agitated state.
I think if trained psychologists, get a few truly knowledgeable persons, to analyze some of LRH's logic, and they would agree that this particular catch 22 self-invalidating loop in these two examples here, are destructive to a person's concept of themselves, and the only solution is the person is forced to shamefully admit they are "psychotic" or "SP", and no other outcome is other than a degrading attitude.
These are two LRH datums, I feel now, that LRH irresponsibly, and without seeing their ramifications, has thrust on us, and the simple way to fight them is NOT believe them.
But the datum about whether you are an SP or not, could drive someone around the bend, and that datum is on the PTS/SP course, and I think only sane persons, pass the illogic of it over, and try to to get caught in the circular nature of of its logic.
I was held against my will several times, and the incidents were pretty tramatic and I only want to communicate them on a whole separate post.
Ask me separately, because even one of your questions, I could spend hours answering.
FACTNET POST #15
Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 05:38 am
Thanks for the data on Ray Hemphill.
Yea, he got busted, told me of his time in jail.
But later, his wife was SO going nuts, that between the time he was in jail, got out, and the court case, his wife was SO looney, she was calling the police so frequently, and frothing at the mouth so many times, the police in CW finally realized what Ray was saying about what really happened was right, that Ray was innocent, and his wife was NUTS, the police believed, and the charges were dropped. That's only because the wife called the police TOO many times, AFTER Ray was in jail, so the police finally got wise, saw the woman was nuts, and dropped the charges.
The real tragedy, is that the wife would not let herself go anywhere near a competent psyche or doctor, and thus her state went on and on. Eventually she went to relatives in New Mexico, and out of Clearwater, so at least she was not enturbulating people at CW. But she refused any decent treatment, that's the unfortunate part, as I see it now.
Ray got off the hook , and to this day (last I saw him and talked to him in 2004 about it) he still didn't know why she flipped on him.
OCMB Post #20
Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 10:44 am:
to Sarah: What made me route out for good.
2) I got out finally, realizing the "intelligensia", the western world's intellectual crowd, the top lawyers, the top smart Fortune 500 execs, the top politicians, NO ONE of the world's leaders, are getting anywhere near Scn. NO ONE of the world's real movers and shakers is getting involved, and really digging into Scn. There might be some closet pretty top level people out there, but that tipped me off. Scn is now in the last decade is much more well known, it's at least heard about. But no one is getting into it, really, that is a mover and shaker on this planet. The subject somehow turns off the movers and shakers of this world. (I've known this for decades really, and I couldn't "not-is" (to use an Scn term) this fact any longer). There are NO credible stories about how great LRH's tech or policy is, in ANY credible newspaper or magazine. For years I was waiting to read of some top English language intellectuals "discover" how great LRH was, and then I was hoping to see other intellectuals get into Scn. It never happened. It is not going to change. LRH has had his say. The world has had a long chance to look at his published church works, they are in libraries, etc. Scholars are not jumping into the subjects. (LRH does not write in the tradition of scholars or even the tradition of college students, like footnoting his work, and LRH does not use bibliographies, meaning no notations of other men or women's works he is comparing his own work to, and this is a SERIOUS omission in the intellectual tradition in western civilization, especially for someone like LRH, it reflects unfortunately on LRH that he doesn't fully know what he is talking about, to not be able to compare it to the other great writers, and quote them).
3) My wife, Janet, divorced me, and I had no purpose to remain any longer. I'd been on the Int RPF about 5 years. She divorced me probably because I was dragging my feet and not getting done, and I still didn't want to stay in the Sea Org half the time, always in doubt, so she divorced me. If I would have really wanted to stay, she probably would have wanted to stay married. But I truly wanted to get a normal life again. I was tired of the 24/7 lifestyle, and I wanted time to read all the books and understand more about life, as written about by wog writers. I sided with intelligent wogs more than LRH in the end, and I chose intelligent wogs as my group, rather that LRH and Scn.
Other reasons, which contributed, I can relay later as I think of them. I think in other posts I mentioned other things that pissed me off in the end, but really I wanted a normal life again.
OCMB Post #21
Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 10:49 am:
to programmer guy,
How I got a job, well currently, when you route out of the RPF, like I did, in Mar 2003, the Security at PAC Base helps you. He will drive you to job interviews, he lets you choose whatever job you want to go for. You then start doing whatever job you want. I chose work similar to my RPF work, which was in a cabinet making shop, and got hired, then worked there for a year, then came to Pittsburgh. Here I just went for a job, got hired, again, first job I interviewed for. I haven't ever really had a problem getting a job, before I was in the Sea Org, either.
FACTNET POST #16
Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 03:04 am
Thanks for the compliments. I will add comments and answer questions on the other threads or anywhere anyone wants.
There is so much to read, people on ARS have called me, and several people have figured out how to email me. My email is [email protected]
If you email me, since I am so long winded, it is better that I take up only 1 question per message. You can do whatever you want with my answer. But you will gain a more thorough answer from me, if you ask me only 1 or 2 questions per email or post, or whatever.
I have lots of reading on the internet sites to do. But I will answer any questions anyone asks. Realize right now, so many people have contacted me, and told me things to read on the internet. I have months and months of reading to catch up with everyone else already out.
I am finding out there is so much I have no clue about myself, and that is why I want to spend more of my time reading the things out on the net which is WAY validly critical about Scn.
My purpose is to try to assist getting persons out, who really are in doubt about the Sea Org. The ones who want to stay, fine, they can stay in and do what they want. (Just don't degrade your fellow human beings following the faulty logic of LRH and expect not to be crticized or held accountable for harming another person.)
All the times I did my doubt formula the last 5 or so times, I wanted to tell the MAA (and at least once I did tell the MAA), I need to go out in the wog world for a few years, and really check out the stats in the wog world. But being on the RPF, they don't let you go out and do things like that. They should honestly, I think, but they are scared to do that. It is expected that someone finish their doubt formula practically with the automatic assumption that the wog world is evil and crumbling, and it should only take a split second to determine that the wog group stats are heading straight to hell. I always did quickie doubt formulas, always felt like I was becoming more and more like Rip Van Winkle, which I was. I knew less and less about the wog world, the more I was in (especially in the RPF, when you are in it for over 5 years).
Now, being in the wog world, I am doing the doubt formula much more thoroughly, I am getting to know that the stats in the wog world are really so much better than I thought.
I don't even think civilization is going down, which is a key "given" in the Scn mentality.
Anyways, thanks to all for the continuing encouragement to post, I appreciate it.
Best, Chuck Beatty
FACTNET POST #17
Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 04:31 am
You asked about all the apparant changes. I can give you a rough picture of the scene uplines, that might relate to the apparant changes all the times. Take these ideas roughly, but this data I give you should give you a rough idea of why there are "changes" and why there will be "changes" for a long time to come.
First off, realize one MAJOR MAJOR thing, the goddamn Sea Org is about 20-30 years in non-compliance with some very enduring senior LRH advices. LRH's final 80's advices contain LRH's strategic ideas about what the church (or ASI, his private org) should do.
Example, LRH says to ASI, make BE (Battlefield Earth) into a movie. Do it first of all else. What happens, years of other BS, some BS not even ordered. Why? Years and years of altered compliance, and FINALLY, in 1999, the overt product film, Battlefield Earth. 17 years in non-compliance, and then overt product compliance. And this is ASI, LRH's personal org. Orders to other Int orgs NEVER even get started in many cases, or the attempts are shot down fast. Realize, that it is sometimes a mammoth task trying to execute LRH's orders. It is really tough. You probably can guess better than many inside the top echelons why it is so hard to carry out such an order, like "get BE turned into a movie as a priority". It was a completely UNREAL order, but LRH said push it through. He said to ASI don't think like the wog publishing industry does, just stick to pushing one item at a time (in this case BE). Was it doable, no it wasn't. Why not. Personnel, meaning no one in the Sea Org with the quals to push that type of order through, because it required a lot of money, connections, which no one inside the Sea Org had. Travolta sacrificed a lot to make it happen, bless him for trying. That was one tough LRH order to comply with, and fine, BE will just have to be redone, in 20 or so years, when this generation forgets about it, and the new generation in 20 years will be ready, and someone else at ASI will push it through in a new unit of time, and maybe get a better produced movie, or maybe not. Maybe the book just isn't right for a movie, I don't know all the reasons, this order in any case is a tough order, and after 17 years you know the result, no use beating a dead horse. If they want to comply with the BE order, they have to now wait and do it again in a decade or two, like the rest of Hollywood does, when they release a movie again, 20-40 years later.
Okay, let's step back just a second, and play like LRH had been here all along. Let's say he was still alive in 1999, and nothing else had prevented BE from finally getting produced. Let's say it came out, and flopped. What would LRH have done. Well obviously some heads would role, some people would do the RPF program, but likely LRH would just order some whole other direction to go in, rather than try to beat BE getting produced again as a movie. He might even revise his strategic advices to ASI is some way, so as not to get stuck with that loss.
So I grant it is conceivable, although I have no evidence of DM doing this, but I can conjecture that he might order some senior Int level org exec to modify their strategy to handle such an impasse, as LRH would also. It is a judgement call, it is not some devious evil plot type of call.
Stepping back, you see even that LRH himself, had circumstances or failures land in his lap, and he dealt with them by shifting off into some other major direction, away from the failure, and thus even when LRH was araound guiding the Scn movement, there were massive shifts and changes, continually, year after year. I think people from the 70's saw this alot. For instance I heard that LRH put the whole ESTO (establishment officer system) on hold, until further review. There are many policies that changed things wholescale in the 50's and 60's. LRH could operate like that.
Miscavage and the top execs in the church are really only doing what LRH did himself. They have tried to comply with his major major early 80's strategic level advices. It has taken decades to comply, and the compliances have been not just overt products or faulty just one time, but very often two times the product was faulty, and a third time the thing had to be done.
Another example. LRH major strategic advices to Foster Tompkins to computerize the church. I said in another post, the INCOMM advices say that INCOMM is to get the computer to do evals eventually. And the computer is to do some incredible other things too. It is now 20 years, and the computers in INCOMM are not doing evals, and not doing the other incredible things they are supposed to do. LRH's orders are for a variety of reasons difficult and unable to be complied with, but the church has been trying, and trying, and everyone involved has seen all the varioust things that do get done, out of necessity to survive, and the LRH orders are seemingly unsurmountable, but they keep trying and trying. Foster was the head of INCOMM two times in the two decades of trying to comply with the INCOMM advices from LRH. He tried and tried, and Foster is one sharp individual, despite any faults, he is one very sharp person. (Evidence his comm cycles to and from LRH which are the INCOMM advices, are THE most lengthy comm cycles ANY Sea Org member has even engaged LRH with, which to me says a lot about Foster's ability to get through and engage LRH in conversation, which might be neither here nor there, but the INCOMM advices are HUGE in individual length compared to most other advice communication cycles LRH engaged in on individual subjects).
Anyways, the apparant "changes", realize that the undercore pounding pulsating theme at Int, coming out of DM's mind, is getting LRH's 80's strategic advices executed by all of the various church sectors to which those LRH advices were directed. In the 80's as LRH moved totally off the lines, the strategies for the sectors were the most important directions for sectors. The programs written were based on the approved strategies. LRH ordered DM and CMO Int to draw up the strategies. He approved some I seem to recall. So the strategies were big, and in most cases have still to this day not been complied with.
So many of the changes, are just the things that have just not been complied with, is part of the reason why it appears we are getting changes.
Golden Age of Tech, that I would love to talk to Jon Horwich about. My guess is he put a major buzz about some long ago (back to 71, 74) orders by LRH (and I think this is comfirmed by the fact that the Golden Age of Tech RTC ED issued originally even quotes the 70 and 74 LRH orders to get certain types of drilling done. The eval on "blind leading the blind" was new, meaning COB's doing. But the old non-complied 70 and 74 advices on drilling, (which some old time Scn people will remember the of BTB Grades Drill sheets that told you how to drill all the Grades Processes), were the basis for the Golden Age of Tech drills. Then there are plenty of LRH advices in many areas about being uptodate with equipment, and bright ideas are always part of evals, and the simulator is just being uptodate with the technology available, etc., and wha-la, Golden Age of Tech (all splashed out with on-policy marketing), and handling a thing LRh ordered handled in the early 70's which was an overt product compliance back then.
Okay, another insider datum, hope I am not overwhelmning you.
Exec Stata has their hat, per LRH. Each guy in Exec Strata is supposed to do what is called a "20 year study". This ties directly in with what LRH writes in LRH ED 339R and LRH ED 339R-1, when he says that he is setting up the Exec Strata as all orgs staffs' experts that the org staff can call on (I so wanted to be one of the helpers to an Exec Stata guy, that had I gotten that post, I also might be posting this today). Each Exec Strata exec is supposed to study 20 years the stats, and solutions and know his area inside out and backwards, and the reason is so that when they handle things in their zones, they utilize EVERY LRH solution of the past. And believe me, there are LOTS of LRH past bright ideas (I am sorry, I know I am sounding totally like I am pumping up LRH and the Exec Strata, and the whole of top management, but I do this to let you know what they think, what LRH advices to their posts they operate on, and the nitty-gritty parameters in which they are playing). In this mass of information, and you can see in the org bookstores how prolific LRH is, also realize each Exec Strata member has their own file cabinet full of LRH advices on every conceivable aspect of their zone, and that is on top of the OEC Volumes that apply to their zone. They have all the past LRH written or approved programs, projects, mission orders, other types of issues, the old issue type on the ship. I have beaten the picture maybe too much to death.
So the changes you worry about as occuring in Scn, at the events, these whole huge swings in this direction or that, realize that the top managment guys in Exec Strata, CMO Int, and input from the really astute RTC members into top management's head reminding top management, for instance, here's a wild guess scenario: RTC top guy looking at a submission from Exec Strata on how to complete execution of some 83 advice from LRH, RTC guy writes or says to the Exec Strat guy: "Hey, what about that 76 advice from LRH to the CO FSO, about blah blah blah. Why the hell isn't that included in your solution. Get that handled and get this submission back to me." Exec Strata guy, goes off, digs up the FSO Executive Directive issue, figures out how to stick it in his proposal, and "wha-la" the proposal gets approved, it is STANDARD, and gets implemented, and some new "change" hits everyone's lines and the public see some new "change" in the orgs.
That's how it happens.
I should get paid by the church for this, don't you think?
Best, Chuck Beatty
FACTNET POST #18
Friday, August 27, 2004 - 03:06 am
Just a short communication, from Chuck Beatty.
I today, 5pm, Pittsburgh time, while I was on my job of fund raising for the Sierra Club, on the streets of Pittsburgh, received a phone call from Elliot Abelson, the church attorney. He reminded me of the legal waiver(s) I signed with him in 2003, when I left the church. Not having a copy, I told him I would like to have one. So until I get my copy of the waiver I signed, I agreed not to post any more info on the church or Scn people I knew. I told Elliot I would get a lawyer, and go over my waiver, and take it from there, but until I do, I will not be posting anything. A very nice past friend has put all my posts in one place:
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