Chuck Beatty
Internet Posts, April 2005


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Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: chuckbeatt...@aol.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 1 Apr 2005 07:41:23 -0800
Local: Fri, Apr 1 2005 7:41 am
Subject: OSA accomplices defections welcome - needed for press story

History details needed for media story on Scn movement sponsered, encouraged internet tactics against the Scn critics:
------------------------------­---------------------------

Any OSA or Scn movement accomplices want to get the truth out about their past and current internet activities, things currently not known in public, please come forward. Info is needed for media articles.

I'm particularly interested in the OSA or Scn movement accomplices who helped create the RFW site, and accomplice spammers, disinformation spreaders, distraction activities, etc.

Interviews, writeups, whatever.

Needed are the stories from the accomplices' side of the story, current ongoing accomplices particularly, and accomplices with connections to OSA currently.

I'd like to get the info so it can be written up credibly and provided to wog media people for regular meat and potatoes media articles.

And for history's sake.

If you don't defect now, keep it in mind for the future, keep some records, etc. so we have some hard evidence in the future.

Thanks in advance! It will help!

chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
412-260-1170

Chuck Beatty

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: chuckbeatt...@aol.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 18 Apr 2005 18:04:36 -0700
Local: Mon,Apr 18 2005 6:04 pm
Subject: Re: No takers yet on offer to OSA accomplices to defect and admit

Magoo wrote:

> True. My leaving happened to be a very spontaneous.....

> "I'm outta here", deal. Looking back, it took many things being the
>way they were, to bring me to that point. Here are just a few. Actually, it
was a time when many things just happened to come together:

> Had OT 7 worked, I'd still be in.

> Had I not written up to RTC many times how OT 7 didn't work,
>including telling them: "I feel like a being trapped inside
>of an iceberg the size of the Grand
> Canyon, using a toothpick to try to get out"....I doubt I would have
>been SO pissed when DM announced they'd trained us all wrong (publicly) and
>that we needed to re-pay for it, and do the entire BS level over!

> When I then wrote to DM, telling him this wasn't Ok with me, that I
>was $60,000 in debt from their "mistakes" and for he to then say I needed
>to pay $25,000 more wasn't ok........Had he or anyone else even taken the
>time to actually care for us (the OT 7's), and help us at that time, I
>probably still would have felt loyal to him. Instead, I got a form letter
>back, saying to pay up and come to Flag. That was THE end of "OT 7" For me.

> http://www.xenutv.com (See: OT's Speaking Freely)

> Around the same time (late '90's).....had Bill and Ruth Bowen

> (Then running "TRT") not been able to pay off the RTC Exec's, getting
>out of paying my husband the $50,000 it was decided they owed in an
Arbitration, and his partner $100,000....I doubt I would have woken up to the WISE
> abuses, and the fact that IF you pay the "Scientology Executives"
> enough...you can actually get a "Policy" Cancelled.

> Had Harvey Schmaideke and Craig Ferrarah and Dan Owen ~~at the WISE
>Company "Survival Strategies"~~not run a TOTALLY squirrel "Comm Ev" on me,
>for asking to get paid for work I did, AND Had not ALL of the "OT
>Consultants" who worked there not sat by and watched this abortion of miss-use of
tech occur, I'd probably still feel loyal to the group.

> Had Yaude not invited me into the top secret OSA Int mafia,
> I'd probably still be slugging it out there, as I wouldn't have
> seen the highest level of abuse, or at least one of them, imho.

> Had Yaude and Gavino not turned on me when I said I wanted
> to quit (once I realized they were actually stopping free
> Speech with the accounts I had opened)....I'd no doubt still
> be "Helping OSA". Ouch!

> http://www.lermanet.com/cos/to­ryonosa.htm

> Had Yaude not told me about the Net nanny, and taken it off my
computer....I would have never been able to later talk with the critics as I did.

> Had Battlefield Earth not been SUCH a disaster, I wouldn't have
gotten on the Internet by myself, to try to help JT and his image.

> Had I not gotten on Yahoo.com message board and been fighting the
critics, I wouldn't have gotten so close to some.

> Had I not been able to get the Yahoo message board cancelled via
> Time/Warner, I doubt I would have ever gone onto ARS.
> I only went there once the other was cancelled, as I missed the
>interaction with the critics. I was terrified of ARS, due to watching the junk
>Yaude had posted for years.

> Had Andreas not helped me, and then been so clearly nice to me, and
>had his entire name and address written on the bottom of his posts, I doubt I
>would have listened to anything he had to say.

> Had I not earlier been part of this top secret internet mafia, using
>phony names and addresses for EVERYTHING, including talking on the phone, I
> wouldn't have been so impressed with Andreas having his entire
> name/address/phone number on his post, either

> Had he not asked, "What kind of friends could those be, if they're
>going to leave you because you changed your mind?"---I doubt the Scio/Truman
>show would have fully cracked.

> Then, had LMT not been there at that time, I would have probably
>stayed here, and God knows what OSA would have done....as some how they knew
>what was going on. I know this as the VP of C of S came to the airport
>when I went to leave, and she said, "Tory...we know where you're going, and
>you're not going to see those people". How? I still am not sure of that.

> Even after I left, had OSA just left me alone....I doubt I'd be here
> speaking out today. After Stacy invited me to just come relax for a
>few days there, I called her back to insist:
> "I'm NOT going to speak out,

> I'm NOT going to make any videos

> I'm NOT going to picket.

> I'm just leaving due to DM and I just want to quietly leave".

> Had OSA just let things be, and not run their "Fair Game" tactics on
>me, I may have just left, and who knows where it would have gone?

> So now they can come on and rag about what a "Victim" I am.

> Noooooooooooooooo...actually, I consider myself quite a survivor. I'm
>sure OSA will get a big laugh out of that. However, just like when I quit
> smoking, and people laughed at me with my fake cigarette I used for a
>few weeks, then I thought: "Well, the last laugh is on YOU, as you're
>still smoking, and still paying to kill yourselves". The same is true of
>people within the organization hiding behind the cloak of religion known as
>"The church of Scientology".

> Laugh all you want..........................­.......

> Today is a wonderful day, and I'm going to go enjoy it.

> And speak my mind, all I want. That feels good, no matter what they
>say.

> There's no price you can put on freedom, there just isn't.

> Bless all who have helped me along this long ride out of there.

> To any "in" lurking...is it worth it? Hell yes!

> "Leap....and the net will appear".

> Make the leap :)

> Tory/Magoo~~

> www.xenu.net

> www.xenutv.com

> www.torymagoo.org

> www.altreligionscientology.org

Hats off to you Tory. You are a historical person and always will be, for so blatantly defecting and blowing the whistle on the OSA sponsered internet subtrefuge.

Your basic story of exposing OSA's extensive internet subtrefuge will always be a MAJOR historical black eye against the Scn movement.

From now until they stop it, they will continue to suffer the backlash for this objectionable activity and they are leaving themselves wide open to new defectors turning against their discreditable actions.

---------------------------

I welcome any of the current accomplices engaging in the internet subtrefuge to come forward, expose the behind the scenes day to day current operations.

Maybe you could get another job. How much are you getting for your current anti-critic internet attack work?

Best, Chuck Beatty
chuckbeatt...@aol.com
OSA accomplices, call anything! 412-260-1170
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckb­eatty77/



[Clambake] Posted on Sunday, April 03, 2005 - 4:47 am:

Mick Wenlock on Clambake said:

thanks for posting [the post about physical restraints experienced by another Int RPFer]this. I get frustrated reading stuff like this because it is patently obvious that some fairly ordinary, decent people who happen to be in the SO are so perplexed and intimidated by what goes on around them that they fail to even act when they see something illegal going on under their noses.

It is just this sort of attitude and blindness that allowed decent people to sit around and do nothing while Lisa McPherson died. -----------------------------------------------

Chuck Beatty answered:

Hi Mick, (I am answering you, sorry to others who are not ex-Sea Org, I cannot deal with having to answer all the things that you might need to understand my answer to Mick, sorry. Mick, you know the scene, I write this to you.)

Yea, it is really something I am still under the influence of myself, and the whole issue gets into psych stuff really.

I myself pulled back, and did not cross the line, and didn't just stand up and physically fight my way out, knowing the people between me and the door would have liked nothing more than getting physical with me, so I simply chickened out, and it was 6 years ago, that I didn't press the issue.

This is a tough tough issue. I was in the Sea Org, and the guys who I would have had to walk past, and the guys who would have grabbed me, etc., were otherwise guys I respected. I truly think one of them a really good person.

This type of whole mentality is difficult to understand outside the full context. Like almost the restraints and violence a parent subjects children to, I submitted to limitations for years, I had to go everywhere with an escort for years while I was on the RPF. In LA, my last year in the RPF I had a full time escort or someone was held responsible for ensuring I did not "blow". Even one final night in 1995 as an ASI staff member, another ASI staff member gave me the choice of sleeping in my own room with my wife, and he would have to sit in a chair outside my room, losing sleep all night, or I could sleep in his room with him (his wife was on the RPF at that time) and he would lock us IN in his room, him keeping the key with him, so ASI would be sure I did not escape while in Los Angeles, before I was then transported to Int, for the "decks" which I did for 6 months, then going to the Int RPF.

It is simply too difficult to express why I put up with this.

Are your complaints valid? Of course. Can I defend why I did what I did. Not yet. I haven't yet found the words to explain why I did, why I tolerated what I tolerated.

You work for goddamn years with people, in normal circumstances in the Sea Org. You gain mutual respect with people you know as acquaintances for decades. You see people off and on for years, and are friends with people. Then at times, these same people are following rules by LRH that you both know are telling them to "watch" you, because you know you just wrote on paper in a despatch that you plan to just "walk out" and leave the whole damn Scn movement. You know what they are then obligated to do per LRH's rules, and you goddamn maybe hate it, but you know too that your fellow Sea Org members have NO other chioce. The rules say don't let people blow, get them sec checked, etc.

The moments get prettty hot, I been through all my scenarios in my head about 10 thousand times, I figured if I just asked to leave, then all hell would break loose.

The day I got my own harsh handlings, I had answered an Interrogatory. I hated Interrogatories.

I am a literal person and if the damn Interrogatory said a question like:

1) Do you know of anyone exhibiting bad indicators?

I then just mentally blew up, and wrote my answer to this damn interrogatory and said "YEA!!! I am having horrible bad indicators. I cannot stand being here, I want to tell Mr. Guider (Int RPF I/C) to give me a ride OFF the RPF and back to a motel in Hemet, so I can then go back into the wog world from there." I said this was as good a time as any. I was planning to tell them in about a week that I was then going to refuse to do the RPF and would ask to be transported off the ranch. But the interrrogatory asked for bad indicators, and I had to answer honestly (some kind of George Washington idea stuck in my head).

So I asnwered I wanted to leave right then, let's go. I might as well get it over now, since they asked for trouble, and I admitted I was in "trouble" in that context.

I get invited to a little room, the MAA's shack, at the Int RPF. Mark Treasure, the big guy who is the same guy who slammed the person's hand on the table, breaking it, in the writeup I posted above, Mark Treasure is the RPF MAA. I liked him. I didn't know at the time he had that fight with the other RPFer I posted their writeup above.

Mark I'd known, for over 10 years. He is a damn warm guy. I'd NEVER in all my Sea Org history ever seen Mark mad. Never. He was a trained auditor, he followed the auditor's code in life, in my presence at least. I never would have guessed he was a bouncer. He is almost 99% of the time smiling and gentle. A damn overall good person. I am not exaggerating. Enough on him.

The other person with Mark was Clark Morton. I'd know Clark since 1982 or 83, inotherwords 12 years. Clark was athe 4th string halfback for the Univ of Florida Gators. He had a remarkable reputation in the Sea Org, as the only FBO who got the okay to control the finances at his org. He was a tough, stubborn, and good guy. He also had an explosive temper, and he was on the RPF for things that are his business, which there are no need to bring up. He was tough, could be very threatening, and a former 4th string college football team half-back, which is NO minor feat. He could beat the shit out of me in about 30 seconds, in otherwords, if I chose to fight him. Mark Treasure is about 6 inches taller, more muscular and about 40 pounds heavier than Clark. So physically I didn't even consider it would be a fight if I decided to try to physically go up against Clark and Mark.

Anyways, we go into Mark Treasures little, tiny MAA shack.

I sit in a chair. Between me and Mark and Clark is the auditing table. Behind them is the door.

We talk for a while, make a long story short, I lose the discussion. I give up and agree to stay and do the RPF.

What happened inbetween, I have been only able to discuss and write about sensibly a few times.

It was the most humiliating experience in my life.

Would it legally hold up as physical restraint, I have yet to fully lay out the details.

It was a 3 hour approximately long incident.

I gave in, went back to following the rules of the RPF, etc.

I don't know how to talk about these incidents. People say some Sea Org members need pro counseling.

My stupid 3 hour stretch of enforced cooperation with the fucking RPF rules and the Scn rules about NOT being a suppressive person, which is what Clark and Mark were trying to get me NOT to be at that incident in Mark's office, is NOT something I know how to rationally sort out.

I have been advised to contact the FBI. Man, that means Clark and Mark are subject to prosecution. DO I think they deserve it? Man, I like them both, why get them in jail.

I am still affected by my whole Scn life, I don't think restraint is right, I think they should have let me just go at that time, and declared me, the whole nine yards.

Here I am today, and you and me know goddamn well I am declared, and the minute I write IJC to ask for my declare, I will be sent it.

It was not my purpose to get Clark and Mark prosecuted, and I knew I'd never do that, even if I had more balls, like this person who I posted their experience above, had had, had I just walked out, gotten jumped on like that person said they did. I knew that would likely have happened to me, and I just didn't want it to blow up to the point of Mark and Clark and others and the police being called for illegal restraint, etc., etc.

Anyways, this is still a very open issue.

I am sorry I won't be answering this to other people.

Mick I know you, I know you know me, and there are about 3 other people on Clambake and who also lurk on ARS who know me. You wanta call me, give advice.

The idea about going to the FBI or authorities, that is not where I wanted to go.

Same with the person above, who asked that I not post for them anymore for now.

It is painful, you don't want to hurt people you also respected, and still respect, and that's where some of this Scn experiences lead you to, when you finally get to a safe space and can talk to someone else, besides "them" (the Sea Org auditors trying to relieve you of the stupid traumas of the predicaments that the stupid rules unfortunately resulted in!!).

Anyways. Sorry. A lot of the damn questions people threw at me, above, after this sort of bombshell post I did, sorry, I can't deal with them at the moment.

Cult experts, who deal with the people abused by cults, know the emotional roller-coaster emotions some cult people went through.

The restraints, the physical detention, or the mental thoughts that one was always considered "bad" when one did not ever fully accept the mantle of being "bad".

I waited way way way way way way way too fucking long to get out of that predicament, that I on the surface cheerily presented to my fellow Int RPFers and the PAC RPFers that I cheerily accepted those confining restrictions.

I hated it. I hated it.

I could snap out of the predicament, and think what the fuck am I complaining about. This is nothing compared to the crap others in third world countries where real dissenters have to tolerate real restrictions. This is NOTHING compared to old Soviet countries where dissenters really had some hard times.

Anyways. Sorry, this post isn't like my other more normal ones, where I have stepped back from my experiences, and see the Scn movement from the heights of historians.

This one is from the depths of the misemotion and confused thoughts related to the worst moments in my adult life.

Best, Chuck Beatty



Posted on Sunday, April 03, 2005 - 10:13 am:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Answers to Moonbeam:

1) I was at "Gold" the following times:

Jun/Jul 83 - Feb 84,
Rest of 84 about 10 times, alot Nov, Dec 84
85 about 6 times
86 about 6 times
87 Nov - Dec
88 Sep - Dec
89 Jan - Feb
89 about 4 times Sep - Oct
91 Nov - Dec
92 Jan - Feb
93 Dec - Dec 95 every Saturday
Dec 95 - Jun/Jul 96

Then Jul 96 - Nov 2000 I was at the Int ranch, which is where the Int RPF is. I hung out with Int RPFers from Jul 96 till Nov 2000.

2) The Twinning HCOB states a twin is responsible to retrieve their twin if the twin "blows", this idea of actually physically preventing someone physically blowing is covered also in the Upper Indocs HCOB (sorry, I assume you know some tech). The PRO TRs movie shows the auditor putting the pc back in their chair. Condoning blow prevention and blow retrieval was and probably still is almost universally accepted in the Sea Org, at least that is my opinion. The RPF is a redemption program, where the activity is a LOT of security checking, which is auditing, thus the rules for blow prevention generally apply to the majority of the time one is on the RPF. That's how I justified these circumstances occuring around me. LRH's tech says blows come significantly from overts (transgressions, harmfully committed acts), so people can be assumed to also be under the potential pressure of their unrevealed harmful transgressions they wished to keep hidden being what was prompting them to flee. So this is how I think it is justified in restraining those seeking to suddenly quit and leave the RPF redemption program. My opinion.

3) Veteran Sea Org members accumulate quite a bit of info over the years, so most hear of lots of bad incidents that occur in the Sea Org. While true actual extreme case scenarios are not widely known, I agree. I learned innumerable examples of abuse reading on the internet, the spitting on Sea Org members, I had one of the person's spit on email within the last two weeks and confirm that DM spit and punched him. I heard this rumored in the 80's, but it bounced off me, thinking it must have been deserved. In fact the person who told me it happened to him, also said he put it behind him, and felt he likely deserved it. That is that person's outlook. Mine would have been to similarly agree it was somehow deserved at the time it happened. Why this is, the answer is in psych material, I believe it is covered elsewhere about human behavior why some persons tolerate this type of activity in their midst, etc. Others can answer this better than me, since I was one to sat around tolerating it obviously with my head in the ground.

3) Why would they treat a woman so poorly, I think you in reading elsewhere can find the answer to that, or ask it generally, and others will answer it, or have answered this already.

4) My own RPF I loved the work in general. I love outdoor physical work, always have. I tried to always look on the bright side, I did love the mountain ranch area the Int RPF is located at. I liked working with the chickens, pigs, the turkeys, all the wild life, coyotes, and the farm dogs and cats. I liked the ranch staff (non RPFers), and the California sunshine who can complain about that? I enjoyed Sea Org communal lifestyle. I liked being outdoors, the fresh air, the blue sky, I loved help building all the various ranch buildings we worked on. I learned all sorts of construction skills, I learned animals, hundreds of physical skills. The actual day to day life was fulfilling. The food was better than my mother's. I am not joking.

5) The intimidation and pressures restraining me from leaving when I wanted to leave, occured during the following periods in my RPF experience: Dec 96-Aug 97. Jan-Mar 98. Those were my worst periods. I think the incident when I was in the little MAA shack occured sometime in Jan 98. That was the most intimidating of my incidents, and it lasted a mere 3-4 hours out of tens of thousands of hours in total in my over 7 years on the "decks" and RPF together.

6) I don't know of what went on from 2001 to 2004 at Int.

7) Sorry I don't know why your RPFer would say so strongly that they would never return to Gold. Question for you. Do you think they meant this was due to people at Gold NOT wanting your RPFer to return to Gold, or was it your RPFer saying they didn't want to return to Gold because Gold was bad in some way? You should know that people who are demoted from Gold often KNOW they will never be allowed to return to Gold, and that is the case with a good number of people who leave Gold. If a person has done something so bad that they make themselves unqualifiable to return to Gold, then they have no chance of returning, since they are unqualified to return to Gold. If is a source of great pride of accomplishment in the Sea Org to qualify and be promoted to the Gold Base and to get accepted to work at one of the Int Base church organizations. It is NOT a minor accomplishment. So your RPFer could also be saying there is NO chance of him being allowed to return to Gold and that itself can be a source of severe disappointment to a person who tried hard, got promoted to Gold, and then was demoted from Gold, and their hopes of staying at Gold were crushed. It can be a big loss to them. Possibly your RPFer felt that loss.

8) The lady has asked me to cool it on posting for her.

9) On asking for anyone's cooperation to go to the authorities, of course what you say is logical. I can only speak for myself, and my answer personally I have not fully worked out.

10) I agree about needing people to come forward, I hear you. I have to come to my own decisions.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Best, Chuck Beatty, Ex-Sea Org, 75-03
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckbeatty77
[email protected]
412-260-1170 (call after 9pm EST)



Posted on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 5:57 am:

----------------------------------------------

Dear Olska,

1) People stay for reasons already covered extensively by Scn movement observers and cult experts. Definitely a whole serious subject and almost all people's input I have read is valid. Me personally, I wrote extensively, here and there, in my posts, about what I got caught and stayed for. I have done long long answers, and that's why I now post all my traffic in the site someone started for me, then I took it over, and continue it now. Sorry my posts are so long winded, and probably bore some people so that my answers to most of the basic questions are scattered all through my posts. But my first twenty posts or so on my site, give most of my basic answers to why I got stuck in Scn and why I got out. Also, it took me a while to see (not until I was really on the Int RPF) that I really needed to exit all the way, and even then, due to whatever in my makeup as a person, I wasn't able to get the fuck out until later. And you know from my posts, my viewpoint today. I have posted EXTENSIVELY and while I don't expect you to read stuff that bores you, but most answers to people's questions are buried somewhere in what I wrote. http://www.freewebs.com/chuckbeatty77/ In a nutshell, I think the abused wife syndrome, the fact that people were still trying to get something from Scn they thought was still there to be gotten, the fact that people once in it for their whole lives can't think of doing something else and they need a boost to get the fuck out and get the confidence to do something else, and I think the cult advice sites, search around on the anti-Scn sites, there are links all over to better answers already written by damn smarter people than me on the crap that keeps people stuck in cults. Dennis Erlich's InFormer site. Bob Penny's excellent posts. Those two I think of off the bat as FAR FAR better sources to answering the questions of why people stay in and tolerate the crap. Keith Henson mentions genetic reasons, and I think that is very likely true, meaning hereditary genetic inclinations. I am open to the science, the wog psychiatric material supporting people's inclinations to seek and then get stuck in cults. I think the answers lie in these areas, and I recommend Erlich and Penny's writings for starters. The cult experts, those guys, Jolly West, Margaret Singer, I listened to their tapes. Excellent material, I agree with almost all of what I heard from Singer and West. Unbelievable material, unlike what I'd been led to believe from the OSA dead-agenting material against Singer and West. I had a complete reversal of opinion on both West and Singer after hearing their lectures on Lermanet.

Also, the friendship, the mutual survival, the Sea Org becomes your tribe, your family, whatever, it is your "3rd dynamic". It's your group/family meme replacement, or whatever the damn psych genetic theory, Keith Henson has written articles on it, which I found interesting.

My own feelings, I posted. To repeat, I think people in general are basically well meaning. I think any good in the Sea Org and Scn is due to the people in the movement, making do and their own goodness shining through the idiocies and limitations and craziness in Hubbard's rules and policies. The goodness of the basic people in Scn are who I think are keeping it going. Why people keep going, well the outnesses, the stupidities, in people's minds in it, simply are NOT sufficient to outweigh whatever they each individually find is survival for them each individually. I think when the individual members get beat up too much for events in their Sea Org careers, then they choose to leave. Usually there is some tense moment(s) preceding the decision to get out. LRH says it is mainly overts that precede one's exit from a group. But overts are going on all the time, and I think that overts are just a wrong target, scapegoat, and that the tense threatening type moments are what very often precedes the "breaking point" moment when a person says fuck this place, I am outa here. Or some sort of betrayal, a reversal of your senior's opinion from good to bad about you, that makes you think you gotta get the hell out. My senior at ASI had a reversal of opinion about me, and started screaming at me, implying I better get used to that type of screaming, meaning DM did it, and she was just giving me what I better get used to. I finally hit that band, near the top, when I was inching towards being "on COB's lines", which is something I hadn't in my up to then almost 20 years in the Sea Org, I hadn't gotten up to that level in the Sea Org. My senior, Barbara Ruiz, and other ASI staff, namely Markus Wuetrich and David Bloomberg, at that same time period, implied Norman Starkey and DM were unbelievably out-there.

I hadn't and never saw DM nor Norman Starkey in wrath. But I assumed what I was hearing was true. Sort of like osmosis, you hang around the people who hung around the higherups who expressed wrath and screaming on juniors, and you believe something is going on. So Barbara Ruiz, who'd I seen scream at another ASI staffer, and that ASI staffer was demoted to Gold staff, and then when Barbara had cause to similarly scream at me, for my sad sad performance on personnel hiring duties for ASI, I just drudged up my worst overts and assumed my overts were my "real reasons" for my now HAVING to leave ASI, and I quickly succumbed and mentally accepted my fate as RPF bait, and all my fantasies about becoming an enemy and posting against the church, like I am now, and the other earlier ASI defectors (Vaughn Young and Stacy, both of whom I in NO way claim any similar of competence, I was a computer facility person, and always a lower level support person in the Sea Org, and never an exec, I'm not claiming any great role in my positions in the Sea Org), I at the time I was caving in and deciding I must "Do the RPF, and leave ASI," I was surely in the severely battered wife syndrome, submitting to punishment, I am so bad, let me go get the RPF handling so I can be made better again. I don't think I got this syndrome just from the Sea Org, I think any of the "victims" of the Scn movement, if given the "best" psych counseling, would probably come up with all sorts of more interesting and positive insights about their predicaments in the Scn movement and in their lives in general. I think that wogs unhindered by the anti-psych phobia that is part and parcel of the Scn movement, do see some benefits in psych counseling, and I don't doubt that the best of the psych counselors do some good.

Anyways, a lot of my thoughts are in progress, as I learn more in the years to come, as I read more, and as I hear and read from others on this exact subject of your question, I reckon I will be able to give you or someone else later who asks me this same question a quicker shorter answer.

2) How to help others. wow! I think the info on anti-cult sites, the info needs to be summarized. There is SO MUCH, that I can't tell you HOW MANY nights I have found myself at the wee hours of the night in the middle of some great anti-Scn site, reading the excellent excellent material, and I find I have to go to bed so I have enough sleep the next day. Bob Penny's materials for instance, I can't even recall all the great materials, the stuff is already on the internet, it just needs to be isolated. Arnie Lerma said I should make a little checksheet or checklist like thing, with the lists of things a newbie just out should read. I could do that. Like I was saying to this lady who's material I posted above, I told her about my thoughts of listing all the things a former Int Base staffer who blows or routes out or gets curious, should read. Like the sites with Vaughn and Stacy's writings, Jesse's writings, etc. Those people's writings are SO DAMN much more important for a newbie to read when they get the chance and when newbie's cross the line and start reading anti-Scn stuff. It depends on who you trusted and knew in the Sea Org. I automatically trust the old Sea Org execs who got declared, automatically. My first choice was reading David and Julie Mayo's stuff, and the LRH history stuff by the English guy. A person has to be shown the truth on LRH, that LRH was basically a pretty far gone person in respects to reality.

3) I greatly appreciated the outpouring of emails and phone calls I got when I posted my email address and phone number. I must have heard from between 50 and 100 people. I greatly appreciated the kindness of Gerry Armstrong and Arnie Lerma, my first phone calls to them, seeing that they are damn nice people, and then all the other old Sea Org members who knew me, just the unbelievable kindness, Tory, my god, people get down on Tory, but man the damn old timer Scn people, Monica Pignotti, the people who know the value of kindness, that went a LONG ways with me.

I truly appreciated the warmth I got, and congratulations for getting the courage to speak freely, and believe me, I'd heard the "SPs" were just damn nice people, talking to them, meeting Dave Touretzky, emailing and speaking to Keith Henson, this I really appreciated. Warrior, Mark Plummer, many many great phone calls and warmth.

I have still about 3 people who anonymously phone me, and also, just that humanity, the genuine warmth that unfortunately Sea Org members just cannot extend to those they consider have stepped over the boundaries. Elliot Abelson was polite, he I consider is a wog, at heart, and wogs at heart I consider okay, so I place him, at least socially, with me, in the two phone calls I got from him as warm, encouraging, and his second phone call while trying to guide me into NOT mentioning people's names, he still was polite. Same with Edwin Richardson, polite, mildly friendly, but he had his line to say, and he said he was gathering info for some sort of litigation, so I cut him off and told him to put it in writing, and I'd go over it with my lawyer.

The 6 or so phone calls I got from ex RPFers who were obviously getting data for OSA, their tone level was NOT the warmth genuine one of the actual anti-Scn people who contacted me, this I could recognize. Point, is the anti-Scn people's warmth to new defectors, it helps! I guess that genuineness anti-Scn people would not even begin to understand this point, but my experience is that extra warmth of genuine people who have crossed the line, who CAN and DO speak their minds, that little extra honesty and genuineness, that I REALLY REALLY think is important to convey to people who have made it OUT. The Scn side can't convey they, due to the built in restrictions of their unfortunate rules. That closed off aspect of the Scn movement, it is really a tragic characteristic that I have to agree is a bad thing, and only occurs in a cult environment. No matter how good I hold the people in Scn and the Sea Org, they are not free to express themselves. My advice, is when you tell newbies out that they are safe to say whatever they want out here, punch up all the good things about being free to look at whatever you want, freedom to speak and read whatever you want. Something very human and liberating, about those fundamental freedoms that I think help pull someone out. Again, nothing I say here is new, and again I think the people I mentioned above, the guys who have already been/there---done/that know a HELL of a lot more than anything I have said.

4) On advice on battered wife stuff, I was told read the Vaughn Young write-up, which I will do. Also longer range studying the psych 101 stuff, was Dan Garvin's advice to me, I still need to follow. I also think Stacy Young's advice on therapy, I am losing my anti-psych phobia, and depending on the cost, more likely I will read my way around that area.

5) Yes, I know about the anger that Margaret Singer says comes along, and the restraint moments, remembering my 3-4 hour moments in the MAA shack, the anger does surface and does blind my thinking, as happened when reading the reactions above in this thread to my initial post. Umike's doubts, unfortunately are very similar to the doubts and thoughts of the people inside the Sea Org, when I was trying to find the words to say what I feel, and the person I was facing I knew was almost guaranteed to misinterpret and doubt whatever came out of my mouth, sort of like a 100% guaranteed fucked up communication cycle no matter what one tries to say.

7) Don't worry. I plan on continuing to post. I think they (Scn movement higher ups) are NOT after me. Reason is, I simply am not getting any stuff directly. I am doing good on my job, I've told all my immediate bosses at my newspaper job, I work for the Pittsburgh-Post Gazette, about my life in the Scn movement, including my 7 years on the RPF before leaving. I always find a way to NOT shock my wog bosses, and I just safepoint my wog acquaintances, all my relatives, and I generally assume people will act and behave sanely and decently, and I wish to do well at my job. I am improving and have become a reliable and medium to good salesman, often being the top salesman some weeks in my little group of sale people I work as a team with. It is important to do well in the wog world at one's job first, that is what I recommend first. Do well, build a reliable reputation of a decent and honest worker, and that buys you credibility. Inform oneself of wog world events, I read a whole bunch of intelligent wog magazines, and know current events, and I know the context of the wog world that the Scn movement finds itself in, and I correctly characterize myself in relation to my Scn history correctly, fitting to a wog's reality. I keep it light and joking, about my past. And I concentrate on doing good on my job.

My goals for writing on Scn matters I have extensively covered and my goals are buried in my otherwise boring and repetitive postings, which are all laid out on my site. Sorry about that.

My main goal in encouraging new defectors, or new people coming out of the top ranks of the Scn movement to post on the events at the Int Base, the mindset, the trends, and I think new INFO is needed on Int Base events.

I really really hope MSH and the other top heavyweight Scn movement people (Mayo, Kember, all the people who already posted and then stopped, Stacy particularly), I hope the ones who stopped posting DO SOME KIND OF WRITING ABOUT THE DETAILS OF THEIR SCN LIVES FOR HISTORY. Even if it means writing and putting aside their writings for the future.

There will be wogs coming along in the years to come, who will need the raw info of the history of the top ranks of the Scn movement. As we all know, the top ranks are the hardest to get current data out of, and that is why I want all to post before they die, and at least get their writings written up for release AFTER they have passed away. For history's sake. Umike, man, after all you have said, this is really my "agenda".

If I can post freely, my hope is Scn continues to allow it.

Others then will post, which I think is inevitable in any event, but if someone needs an example of posting freely, who was in, then I will post as much as I can. (My Int Base history is puny compared to almost ALL other ex-Int Base staffers, who I am really encouraging to post.)

I would really like to see MSH write, and I hope she does write and has written, and has somehow arranged to have her writings come to public light after she passes away.

8) Thanks for all the advice.

Best, Chuck Beatty, Ex-Sea Org, 75-03
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckbeatty77
[email protected]
412-260-1170 (call after 9pm EST)



From: ""
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: New Anonymous former high Scn movement person offers opinions/news!
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 13:55:10 -0700

Below is from my recent conversation with a new (to me) former higher level than me Scn movement person. Below are some news about the Int Base personnel changes, and excellent opinions from a person in the Scn movement for decades.

[Anyone with news about events at the Int Base in the last several years, please feel free to email or phone me:]

Chuck Beatty,
[email protected],
412-260-1170 (call after 9pm, EST)

-------------------------------------------------------

[from me to the person:]

Dear [----],

Thanks. I enjoyed this conversation very much, and please send me any idea/thoughts, as you think them.

I particularly appreciate new news you gather about events uplines, as the objectionable trends actually occuring in the upper ranks of the Scn movement, I think it is best for everyone to be kept abreast of any changes or the lack of changes at the top.

In my opinion Scn will only progress and be tolerated to the degree that it continues to retire and altogether ceases the objectionable practises exposed in the media for decades now.

I really appreciate your emails. Thanks very much!

Chuck Beatty

In a message dated 4/--/2005 ….. , [----] writes:

Thanks very much for your reply, Chuck. Well, you can post any of this you want. I think you said it all rather succinctly. Funny you mention the NY Times. I recently started reading the Sunday NY Times and now get the NY Times online. Of course, LRH's handling of intellectuals was to label them all a farce, etc., etc. OK, you can find any number of them that are a joke -- as in any area. That doesn't negate them all by any means. What the Church of Scientology has to face is that it is CREATING its own enemies. Of course, anyone who "becomes disaffected" is just acting from his/her own overts and withholds. A nice explanation to make it so those responsible at the Church for creating situations don't have to confront their own responsibility nor do they really have to LOOK as to what is behind the troubles and situations facing them. Do they really think they can continue ad infinitum with their self-imposed blinders? I remember reading William Burroughs' original pro-Scientology book. He was promoted by the Church as one of the great thinkers then. But when he broke ranks, he was made out to be a lowlife that NEVER did or thought anything good. That also becomes the pattern for ex-staff or even staff who are currently in the doghouse. They can go from being golden boys or girls who never did anything wrong, but if they land on the RPF then NOTHING they ever did was ACTUALLY correct. Read the Gulag Achipelago to get a good comparison as to how it's done.

Interesting that you mention "Tommy" -- yes, it's just a rock-opera, but I figure you saw the film as well -- did you also have that uncomfortable twinge of how what you were involved with compared? (And Tommy was literally the blind leading the blind, which the Church still is, despite its internal PR to the contrary.)

Some of those who never were in the Church or were in it for just a short time can easily vilify anyone who ever was in it for being stupid, etc.

Fact is, however, that there ARE a lot of intelligent people there. Duped yes, stupid no. Face it, you can be intelligent and still fall for some pretty big lies -- you see it every day out here. And the ego's make it hard for people to admit having bought into it when they do recognize it -- frankly, it seems that more intelligent people have an even harder time in many cases at admitting they were duped.

You are correct that one of the most abhorrent of the Church's practices is that of trying to silence former members. And because you have less intelligent minions there who cannot think for themselves and thus cannot foresee future consequences beyond getting stats or a commendation (which will be thought of as nothing the first time he does something wrong), they get into "the end justifies the means" mindset. And let's face it Church execs, you know it happens and condone it and tell yourselves you didn't order it and so it's ok until the sh-- hits the fan -- then you loudly proclaim having had no knowledge of it and utterly toast the low-level guy.

(Or even a higher level one if that is deemed necessary to get the bad-PR diverted.) Simply disgusting and cowardly.

By the way, not to vilify any of the posters, but sometimes they do post some things that I am astounded aren't known to them -- and no one seems to answer them, so these missing points can "dead agent" them to someone trying to convince any member or borderline member of the Church.

There are enough people out of the Church fold now that DO know these things, so it's sometimes surprising to me. Things like "Where is Diana?" (She's Div 6 Exec Int -- has been for many years.) I saw a posting regarding the Snr C/S AOLA and that she was "somehow" related to DM. Yes, her last name is Blythe. Sister of Bitty Blythe -- Bitty Miscavige, wife of Ronnie Miscavige (DM's brother, former Marketing Exec Int). Bitty and Ronnie got fed up, Bitty locked herself in her room at Int at one point (after she had done an RPF) and they finally both left. CO GOLD is Lisa Allen, who was Lisa Schroer until husband Paul Schroer got routed out, so she was obliged to divorce him, as happens at the drop of a hat at Int/Gold. Her mother is Elaine Allen who was listed on the "RPF Insider" list. (No I don't think that person was really on the inside. Many that they listed were already long gone from the RPF by the time it was posted -- people like the Didcoates who live in the LA area.)

And yes, there appears to have been a large "purge" starting several years ago -- I don't know that it's particularly done now. But the Church has lost many, many old-timers and I'm sure are promoting to those who are left how these were really the people holding down the stats and at briefings they will show those who are left some random stats that are going up. Frankly most stats for years have been flat or going down. Ther might be temporary spurts up that "raise the trend" -- but these gains get lost and that part doesn't get promoted. And most of those staff being briefed no longer believe the BS anymore but are afraid to speak up, thinking they are alone.

(I again refer you to The Gulag Archipelago [two famous books by Alexander Solzinitzen, Nobel prize winning USSR dissident writer who eloquently wrote of the former Soviet extensive "Gulag" prison system, so numerous the prisons formed a whole "archipelago" {islands} in the former USSR])

Yes, a lot of what LRH says is good data -- and, as you say, you can find it elsewhere. But THE tech that is supposed to save us all has not done it.

It's explained away that it's just mis-used. But how, with all the attention at the top to correct it, can the same situations just continue to come up over and over and over and over. The percentages of all those ex-SO members just being dogs is too high. A lot of them DID produce well, for many years. So where is the application of the tech to handle rather than relegate them to the trash heap, as LRH would say. If they were holding the Church back, then the Church would have honest stats just rocketing. Show us the PR, but you know it's just PR. So what's really happening? Time for someone in the Church to confront what is really wrong internally -- not just offload anyone who tweaks some exec's nose wrong. You know that is no actual long term handling -- just helps the short term internal PR. But time will run out and is running out.

Had to say it. Thanks Chuck and thanks Mick.

[------]

From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Hello again
Date: Apr 2005

thanks very much [----],

I think best advice, and what I tell wog parents and family, is for them to get a subscription to the NY Times, and start getting the intelligent people's viewpoint of the world, and by gaining a good grounding in what the most intelligent people and leaders in the world think about, the main opinion leaders in the world are educated up the ying-yang, they are familiar with the truly knowledgable and thousands years tradition of thinking people on earth, and LRH is just a very minor quackish/wacky modern religious cult starter, and despite all of LRH's and Scn's self-promotion, the intelligent world gives Scn the silent treatment, because Scn is just not defensible intellectually, due to LRH's wildly unproven claims about Scn's efficacy. LRH was blind on what wog critics long ago noted were the deficiencies in his writings, and he never wised up. He's written his own blindness and faults into church policy, which now the leaders of the Scn movement have to contend with the same problems LRH never handled. NO major universities are vying or even interested in engaging in theological studies into Scn. There are NO heavyweight intellectuals that have adopted Scn as their personal religion, and that fact along says alot. Other traditional religions, do have intellectual support. Scn has none. LRH offended intelligent people from the get-go in the 50's, and so far in 55 years, LRH still hasn't gained any foothold in intellectual support. I tell ex Scn members as well to get informed, read the Sunday NY Times, read newsmagazines, I love the New Yorker, the New York Review of Books (the all-time top intellectual magazine in the US), the Nation, Newsweek, the Atlantic Monthly, I subscribe and stay on top of the intelligent thinking people in the US.

That way, longrange, should the family member actually rise to a level ofunderstanding of the world superior to their kids or parents in the movement, then their own judgement will be apparant to their family members, when contact does take place.

Berating, trying to coerce the Scn family members just puts them off. Gotta gain respect due to one's character and decency and honesty and wiser outlook about life.

LRH lays it on thick to Scn members how much Scn members have the "tech" to solve all the world's problems. That is such pie in the sky, and there are no intelligent people taking LRH's ideas, and then taking it upon themselves to figure out how to solve the world's problems. LRH's mindset is truly repugnantly self-serving and meglomaniac, all ideas tend to flow praise only back to him, and he doesn't credit any fellow thinkers in the current scene. It is like the movement has the mindset that all other problem solvers in the world are failures, and LRH and Scn movement is predicated on wogs having to see that everything is just a mess and no other thinkers are effective, and that they all will have to come to the conclusion that LRH has the tech to save the world, and Scn members are only happy if that is the final outcome for human history.

It is LRH's meglomania that by osmosis is a group meglomania and mindset that makes the whole Scn movement look very wierd. No one buys it, like the line in the rockband the Who, in the Tommy album: "We're not gonna take, never did and never will."

Only thing I think helps, is getting the person to just expose themselves to media, good thinkers today, good solutions that are ongoing, and let Scn members be exposed to world events.

Scn is out of step with the world, as LRH was out of step, and LRH never rose to acceptance in the wog intellectual world, and he so directed the Sea Org, so they now have a hell of a challenge ever gaining intelligent people's support. He's embedded so many dumb rules into the Scn movement, that it makes it hard for them to ever not be looked at as really just another wacky California religious cult, with the Hollywood support, the celebs getting into it. Scn has a couple strikes against it, and LRH's rules to me, are the main problem they have with Scn. DM, one good thing, is he has enough power, that if he decides NOT to follow any of LRH's dumber rules, he could pull that off, and that would be to Scn's advantage.

If you have been in the Sea Org, as long as I, then you are aware, I take it you've read most of the LRH basic books and are familiar at least with OEC Volume 0, etc., etc., so my point is that there are thousands of LRH writings that are common sense and sensible. Those things are what I think one has to admit are "okay" for Scn members to engage in.

The part I cannot defend and the part of Scn I think should be retired, are LRH's rules that are objectionable due to being truly out of step with man's "been/there---done/that" wiser knowledge. Like trying to silence former members. That is out of step with what wogs agree is ethical. It is not considered ethical to try to silence former group members who speak out about genuine abuses in a group they "escaped" or were ousted from.

Physical abuse, restraining people physically, is illegal and has to cease if it is still going on.

Anyways. Hope you can write things I can post, and feel free to relay anything you want, and hope you post your experiences, or at least write them up for others later.

I suggest you too, get a subscription to the Sunday NY Times newspaper. And don't thow it away, because they are a LOT to read. Let your 3 month subscription stack up, and just read the whole thing, cover to cover, slowly, and I guarantee the info in the NY Times will put the world in a whole new level of perspective for you. You will see what a minor little unrecognized new religious movement Scn really is, and you will see where LRH really is at in the crowd of hundreds of thousands more intelligent people of the last century.

Best, Chuck Beatty

In a message dated 4/--/2005 ….,
[---] writes:

Hi Chuck.

[---] here again. ….. I obviously do not want to be known by my name at this point -- maybe not for quite awhile at least.

snip …..

….. I believe it was Mick's advice that was the most REAL -- give their child [stuck in the Sea Org or RPF] love and understanding (doesn't mean they have to extol the virtues of the church and its execs by any means). Show them that people NOT in the Sea Org and not even in the Church per se CAN be rational, loving and that it ISN'T just a bunch of crazy people out here. Then there is a chance to lead that person bit by bit (gradiently to use the Scn term) to think for themselves and really and truly SEE what is happening to them in the church and what it might REALLY be like outside of it.

It took me awhile to do this even after being out here. I won't go into details, again as I don't want to put any unnecessary risks into play at this point. [This person speaks about their uplines past generally]. ……I'd be surprised as well if many [refering to former Int Base staff] don't have the same deep down feelings that I had had and finally admitted to myself.

Anyway, this was just a bit of an initial comm to you. I will send more as I deem it useful. But meanwihle, you are on the right track, I think Mick is on the right track, and hopefully some change can be effected with regard to the church and Scientology. I lost most of my life there and am only now digging myself out. Don't want to see that happen to more.

[----]



From: ""
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: updated Scientology quiz
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 19:42:08 -0700

Dave Touretzky wrote:

Thanks for the feedback on my quiz for Scientology staffers. I've added five new questions and made some minor corrections to the original ten. The revised version appears below.

Kristi, Roger, and everyone else: you are more than welcome to use this quiz on your web sites. But I do hope someone out there will print this thing out (without the answers) and get some Org staffers to take a shot at it. I'd love to hear what happens when they try to find the answers.

-- Dave Touretzky

================================================================

Scientology Quiz

Every Scientologist should be familiar with the life of L. Ron Hubbard. Here are ten questions whose answers you should know. If you don't know some of them, search for the answers on the Church of Scientology's web site. If you can't find an answer there, then try a Google search.

1. Who were Margaret Louise (Polly) Grubb, Sara Elizabeth (Betty) Northrup, and Mary Sue Whipp?

2. What were the names of L. Ron Hubbard's seven children?

3. What became of Quentin Hubbard?

4. Where did L. Ron Hubbard go to school, and what degrees did he earn?

5. Give the exact dates and places L. Ron Hubbard was wounded in action during his World War II service in the Navy. What injuries did he sustain on each date?

6. List the actual medals and honors L. Ron Hubbard received during his military service.

7. One reason the public was so eager to get its hands on "Dianetics: the Modern Science of Mental Health" when it appeared in May of 1950 was a magazine article Hubbard had published the previous month, with the enthusiastic suport of the magazine's editor. This article later became the book "Dianetics: Evolution of a Science". What was the magazine, who was the editor, and what became of him?

8. Who wrote the introduction to Dianetics: the Modern Science of Mental Health, and what became of him?

9. In the early editions of Dianetics, Hubbard included an appendix by an electrical engineer. What was in the appendix and who was the author?

10. Who was the first clear, and what became of him or her?

11. What pen name did "Nibs" Hubbard use, and who was his co-author?

12. Whom did L. Ron Hubbard personally appoint in 1979 to the newly-created post of Senior C/S (Case Supervisor) International, and what became of him?

13. Which church official told the press, speaking of Mary Sue Hubbard in 1979, "Certainly she is second in all of our hearts"? What became of this official?

14. How long did Mary Sue Hubbard spend in prison, and why was she there?

15. Who is Alexis Hollister, and how was she described in L. Ron Hubbard's last will and testament?

Special bonus questions:

1. Where does David Miscavige live?

2. When David Miscavige retires or dies, how will his successor be chosen?

================================================================

Answers:

1. The first, second, and third wives of L. Ron Hubbard.

2. Alexis, Arthur, Diana, Katherine, L. Ron Jr. (Nibs), Quentin, and Suzette.

3. Quentin Hubbard committed suicide in 1976.

4. Hubbard attended Georgetown University in Washington, DC for two years; he never earned a degree. During his naval service he attended a training school held on the Princeton University campus, but did not take courses at Princeton. He later claimed a doctorate from Sequioa University [HCOPL 14 Feb 1966, "Doctor Title Abolished"]. Sequoia was a mail order diploma mill that was eventually shut down by a Los Angeles judge. He also proclaimed himself to be a "Doctor of Scientology".

5. None: L. Ron Hubbard never saw combat.

6. American Defense Service Medal, American Campaign Medal, Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal, and World War II Victory Medal. These were routine medals given to everyone who served in those theaters during WW II. Hubbard did not receive any purple hearts (he was never injured) nor any commendations for merit, valor, bravery, etc. Details at http://ronthewarhero.org

7. Astounding Science Fiction. Its editor, John W. Campbell, was an early Hubbard supporter, but broke with him later that year due to the way Hubbard conducted himself.

8. The introduction to Dianetics was written by Dr. Joseph A. Winter, who later broke with Hubbard and denounced him in a 1951 book called "A Doctor's Report on Dianetics". Winter's introduction has been deleted from reprint editions of the book.

9. The appendix contained circuit diagrams of the analytical and reactive minds. Its author was Donald H. Rogers one of Hubbard's early supporters and intellectual collaborators, along with Winter.

10. Several people have been declared the first clear. One was Sonia Bianca, a college student, who failed a public demonstration of her purported abilities in Los Angeles in 1950, and promptly disappeared from public view. Scientology staff member John McMaster was annointed the "first real clear" by Hubbard in 1963. McMaster was later declared a "suppressive person".

11. Nibs Hubbard (L. Ron Jr.) was listed as co-author, under the name Ronald DeWolfe, of the book "L. Ron Hubbard: Messiah or Madman?" The principal author was Bent Corydon. Later editions of the book list only Corydon.

12. David Mayo was the first Senior C/S Int, and was later found by a US court to be a co-author of NOTs, or New Era Dianetics for Operating Thetans. He left Scientology and started a squirrel group, the Advanced Ability Center.

13. Henning Heldt, described as the top church officer in the US at the time, as reported in the Washington Post on August 18, 1978. Heldt went to prison along with Mary Sue.

14. Mary Sue spent about a year in federal prison. She was convicted of stealing government documents, intercepting government communications, harboring a fugitive, and conspiracy to obstruct justice.

15. Born March 8, 1950, Alexis Valerie Hubbard (later Hollister) is L. Ron Hubbard's daughter by his second wife, Sara Northrup Hubbard Hollister. Hubbard boasted to the press that the red-haired Alexis was the first "Dianetics baby", but after divorcing Sara, he denied that he was Alexis' father. He repeated this denial in his will, and explicitly disinherited her.

Bonus answers:

1. David Miscavige lives at Scientology's armed compound in Hemet, California, known as "Gold Base".

2. No one knows how Miscavige's successor will be chosen. There does not appear to be any formal succession mechanism.

===============================

Dear Dave,

Thanks for this quiz. I have read quite a bit, and still got a few wrong.

I was just thinking the other day, about the lack of successor situation, and agree to a large extent. Here are some thoughts on this.

1) LRH left open the possibility of coming back. This delusion I admit to wondering possible only while I was still inside the movement, and hadn't really stripped this idea clean when I got out. Scn members normally believe in future lives, and LRH's claims about his OT abilities, leads a faithful Scn member to conjecture LRH might be back to help "Clear" earth, before going on to "target 2" (LRH's pep talk given in LRH ED 339R in the early 1980's. "Target 2" means another planet that he and everyone else will go off to "Clear", he says in this issue). When recently discussing this on ARS, I realized how astoundingly delusional this concept of returning truly is, and should LRH manage this feat, it likely will itself dwarf ALL events on planet earth!!! Pretty conclusively unlikely, if thought about realistically.

2) LRH expects the top echelon organizations to self-replicate and self-replace the dying/defecting/demoted members of these top echelon organizations (RTC, CMO Int, Golden Era Productions, Flag Liaison Office, Continental Liaison Offices, etc., on down the ladder). Each of these Sea Org organizations by means of their "HCO Division" hire and replace or fill empty positions per the extensive LRH policies written by LRH in the OEC Volume #1. (The Sea Org runs by LRH's voluminous OEC policy rules and additionally by following LRH's additional specific writings including the Flag Orders, Central Bureaux Orders, Flag Ship Orders, the 1980's advices turned into very specific administrative issues for specific organizations (Golden Era has hundreds of such issues just for Gold functions; OSA Int has its issues just for it compiled from LRH's decades of orders to the Guardian's Office and to the successors -- namely OSA; ASI has issues for ASI based on LRH's advices to ASI; then lower echelon issues are the general Flag Orders applicable to ALL Sea Org organizations). Point is, LRH wrote extensively for the church related organizations, including prolifically about how to keep orgs self-replacing and expanding their staff numbers.

3) DM's personality and his understanding of LRH's "intention" (based on DM's understanding of all of LRH's writings), has taken on a whole other aspect that is best understood in my opinion by non-Scientologists familiar with groups and leaders, and how leaders assume power within the rules allowed in groups. DM's just doing what others have done in history in the past. DM's role is majorly a self-evolved role, that DM has figured out as he went along for himself in the movement. How the next leader assumes power, unfortunately will be up to that individual, and their own personality, etc. I agree LRH left a lot of leeway for whoever assumes the top spot, as DM has done. And that top position, currently is called Chairman of the Board, Religious Technology Center. Executives in Scn organizations have administrative paperwork submissions done and approved. The top execs approve the lower exec's selected, and the lower echelons of the Sea Org have extensively laid out procedures for replacing the lower echelon executives. RTC top execs get approved by whoever is the top. After DM goes, then whoever is left at the top of RTC most likely will pop up and replace DM, or the top RTC execs will decide that one of the people in my #4 comment, will be pulled up to hold the Chairman of the Board position in RTC.

4) Right now the top top clique from which DM's replacement would come, should DM somehow retire or move off the top spot, would be: Greg Wilhere (RTC staffer and righthand man to DM); Norman Starkey (hangs out at RTC last I knew, likely on special duties, writing speeches, overseeing the LRH biography, deals with the highest level Public Relations thought processes and statements, and is a trusted sounding board I think for DM); Marty Rathbun (another righthand man for DM, special duties doing whatever tricky delicate matters, intimate with DM----as an aside, when DM plays basketball, he plays with Greg Wilhere and Marty Rathbun, and they both suitably cut DM a lot of slack I observed when I saw them playing); Guillaume Lesevre (ED International, excellent choice in my opinion for a successor, even though some think Guillaume at times harsh, he was a well loved commanding officer overwhelmingly at the lower echelons on his way up to the top of the Scn movement); Marc Yager (Commanding Officer Commodore's Messenger Org International, he's good in my opinion, a better choice than either Greg or Marty, since Marc's a day to day commanding officer type). That is realistically the pool to immediately replace DM. This clique, have been at or around the top, meaning right near DM, for 20 years now. They all know and trust and understand each other's stengths and weaknesses, and I don't think any of them harbor any significant ill-will towards each other, and would sensibly all be consulted in replacing DM. DM's wife, Shelly, knows DM as well as anyone, of course, and her input would be senior in deciding on DM's replacement. Really, right now, the top of the Scn movement is really a tight group of people who know each other pretty extensively, worked and hung out with each other intimately and administratively for over 20 years. They are an unprecedented tight top group, and LRH pretty much put the seal of approval on almost all of them in 1983.

5) More likely, this whole clique of top people mentioned in #4, they will all grow old together, some dropping off, as they age, and a whole other group will be rising, of which I would like to hear anyone's input who sees some bright replacements for this whole clique of people I've mentioned. DM is pretty physically fit, and likely these guys will all age another 20-30 years, my guess, realistically, and old age will thin their ranks.

Best, Chuck Beatty



From: ""
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Int Base atmosphere / comments examples welcome!
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:13:26 -0700

I asked for comments on the following information from an anonymous former high up Scn movement member:

===========================

Hi,

Hope you don't mind me asking your opinion about things.

Particularly, I am interested in the extra tight environment uplines.

I look back on my times (2 years spread over 11 years) there. I was INCOMM Int Staff for about 4 months, and I was RTRC staff about 4 months. I was there from Jul 83 - Dec 95, off and on, only posted there 2 times, 88-89 and 91-92. As ASI staff I came weekly from 93-95 for the weekly study and weekly staff briefings Saturdays. Then I hung out on the Int RPF with all the bigwigs that got RPFed to the Int RPF from Jul 96 - Nov 2000.

I think the mindset of the Int Base is such a tight atmosphere, there are a list of things that I think contribute to it being such a tight mentality. I want to write about it.

I want to put together a list of all the major factors that contribute to the tense balancing act that an Int Base staffer has to balance within, and different pressures for different echelons (Exec Strata have pressures slightly different from CMOI, RTC different from Gold, HU different from CMO Gold, etc.).

Please comment and add to my list, this is one area I want to exhaust and get laid out. Because in doing so, I think this info provided on the internet for intelligent observers of the top managment of the church then get a realistic view of RTC, CMOI and Gold.

1) The Team Share card system is an LRH written system of priviledges, which at those times when the system is being enforced, the staff feel the pressure to ensure they are upstat and make no serious goofs, otherwise they lose privileges, and the loss of food and berthing while not common over the 2 decades I was there, was at times still a threat. "Sleeping on the Golf Course" was a threat given in 1988-89 to Emil Gueron of RTRC when I was working there at the time, just weeks before Ken Rose blew for all the noise one top exec was threatening.

2) The "face-ripping" "SRA (severe reality adjustment)" "impinging" drilling that CMO Int staffers, especially those going on missions to lower orgs were drilled on engaging in. I saw SRA drilling in 1983-84, which consisted of the trainee screaming an impinging invalidative statement and slamming one's palm on a tabletop for impingement. Pavlovian. I am almost certain it is NOT applied widely now, but I would like to know its influence still.

3) DM's periodic face-ripping, where he'd prowl the base, show up at the place of work of a staffer and scream, grab the person by the collar/throat, and tell them bluntly how that person was sabotaging something DM was trying to get done. Variations of this, one other former Int Base staffer of over 2 decades told me an RTC busted staffer told them that DM had a rule if a person caved in, then DM concluded the person was guilty. Every hear of this?

4) I always noticed a tight tight tense tense attitude of extreme seriousness in people's in CMOI's voices when discussing something that was "hot on COB's lines". In otherwords there is constantly an undercurrent of the things that "Dept 21" (Dept 21 is a euphemism for DM, and the developement of this phrase "Dept 21" is almost a cover for the trend of DM's influence on ALL significant Int Base activities) is concentrating on, and this in itself always plays a serious factor in CMOI and Exec Strata staffers' planning.

5) The rules for staying late, over the years, varied so widely. One had to get a CSW approved to stay late, there is a whole complex predicament downstat or flap-producing staffers are expected to overcome (how to stay late to handle some flap they've caused) but at the same time they are pressured to "be on schedule". Other times when no pressure was on staff to CSW to stay late, it was actually less maddening I observed for those that decided to stay late.

6) The day's routines are just so jam-packed and there are so many uncomplied with COB and even LRH orders, which fall by the wayside almost monthly, that an accumulated mess of pressure to do things that never got done, there is just always a constant stream of long long duration things not complied with. This makes for, in my opinion, the feeling like there is never sufficient time to handle all that has been ordered. There is an on-going juggling act of what to work on as a priority, because programs and projects become "back burner" items, as other hotter projects and programs get issued.

7) The justice, Comm Evs, held, there is an evolved mindset for justice at the Int Base, all its own. I observed more and more, reading Comm Evs and SP declares on the Int Base RPFers, that the justice fad is harsh. Completely unreasonable. This ties in with the atmosphere coming out of AVC, it's ebbed and flowed back and forth from harsh to less harsh. I think the swings in justice, sometimes unbelieably harsh and not taking into consideration the person's past worth, the result we see now in guys like Jono Epstein and Ken Hoden on the PAC RPF. Or Paul Schroer routing out. Or the past blows that happened all the time, Bill Dendieu, Steve Marlowe, and then Paul and Janice Grady, the Gamboas. It just goes on and on, year by year, as one looks back, and I think the superlative performances by individuals in some periods were simply forgotten later when they'd flapped too heavily, or became incorrigably mutinous.

8) The schedule itself, is frequently for some posts just oppressive. People are working for decades on short sleep. There is insufficient exercise time, and exercise time drops out almost guaranteed regularly. (The emeter evolution, Quatum; other evolutions, that went on for months, very little and sometimes no sleep, etc.)

9) The unique Int Base etiquette, particularly I hated the "flaps and handlings" section of the weekly staff meetings. This one aspect of staff meetings I found my most unwanted moment (the flaps and handlings evolved from LRH's advice to ASI on how to run the ASI staff meetings, then the advice was applied to all Int orgs, and is policy Staff Meetings, now I believe). This policy I think is significant to keeping a person not WANTING to do anything tha causes a flap, and then there is DM's unofficial encouragement to adjacent staff to berate and be intollerant of their fellow flapping staff member.

10) DM's periodic ethics gradients showing his disapproval of something he noticed is going on. A time he had people wearing little specially made up name tags with a disparaging comment about the person's character on the nametag. One RTC staff young woman having to wear a tag I was told that said "I think more about myself than the group". DM had caricatures drawn up and shown to certain staff, DM had a caricature drawn up showing an exec pointing his arms in opposite directions and I think it had a caption reading "Not my fault!" The cartoon caricature was shown to all ASI staff to get them to take responsibility and not be blame-shifters.

11) The staff to staff pressure, the fads on what is okay, how to dress, how to act, following the leader mentality, with junior execs in CMOI acting like they know how to act around DM or the older timer CMO Int staff who were MODs (Messengers On Duty) who "Knew" how to act when LRH was "on the lines". There are subtle cues given by the higher or ladder climbing execs that is sort of a snobbishness that they know how to act, and that if you are acting out of step, not "on the same page", "wake up and smell the coffee", "Hello!!!". The mannerisms of DM and Shelly are spread like fads. That is the point, this I want to confirm. DM and Shelly truly have influenced the fads of moment to moment intollerance and what is okay and what is not okay behavior. This I think is one of the most significant pressures at Int, and one I really wish someone there who has lived through all the silly little tense snobbish moments of discourse and oneupmanship that is constantly going on, so one is in step, "in sync", with command intention.

12) Periodic dribble about "command intention", meaning obviously "Dept 21", meaning obviously DM's intention.

13) Then at Christmas and events, there is the whole RTC billiards table recreation room in MCI, just for those invited to hang out there with COB or RTC. This brings to mind the whole do's and don't's of seating at events, the etiquette that has to be taught, the deference shown to RTC staff, etc., there is a WHOLE mass of little details of etiquette points, that exist. Each with their own histories. This in itself is a whole level of unreal pecking order mentality and snobbishness mixed in with "who is doing well", meaning who DM is currently praising for doing well on their post. And when whole orgs are doing poorly, all sorts of complications and fads come about.

14) Anyone harboring doubts about being in the Sea Org, this is instantly about the worst thing one could admit. Anti-DM intentions are fatal, grounds for time at OGH and the decks and worse, if evil purps are voiced and reacting while one's hooked up to an emeter, it's the RPF.

You see where I am going? This whole vast array of pressures adds up to the mindset at Int. These trends and fads go on uncontrolled for years and years, and there is almost no solution to some of them, they are instilled permanently.

Anyways.

I hope you can comment on any of this. I want to lay this out.

The subject I want to post on is the "Atmosphere at the Int Base, and What Causes It"

thanks.

Best, Chuck Beatty
412-260-1170 (call after 9pm eastern standard time)
[email protected]
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckbeatty77/



Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: chuckbeatt...@aol.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 13 Apr 2005 10:05:27 -0700
Local: Wed,Apr 13 2005 10:05 am
Subject: Re: Int Base atmosphere / comments examples welcome!

Below is my answer to a former Int Base person, and below is the Int Base person's extremely relevant observations and opinions.

SKIP MY WHOLE MESSAGE ANSWER, AND GO STRAIGHT DOWN TO THE PERSON'S MESSAGE AT THE BOTTOM, WHICH IN MY OPINION IS EXTREMELY VALID HISTORICAL AND VITAL INFO!

Chuck Beatty

==============================­===========

[Chuck addressing the former Int Base staffer:]

Thanks for the quick answer.

I did know about Marc Yager, as I was out at OGH the day he was declared, I cleaned out the aluminum trailer for his new berthing for him. And I crossed his path many times in the early months of 1996 while I was on the decks myself at OGH waiting for approval to go out to the Happy Valley RPF, which I did in Jul 96, so I was out there on the Int RPF when Marc finally arrived out there. I of course interacted with him for the next two years, until he graduated.

Your writing captures the think well. This is what I want to get lots more of, since I have just not seen anywhere and in my opinion it is needed for people, mainly wogs, for raw data so the faults in the top mindset of Scn can be picked apart.

My twin on the Int RPF was Clark Morton, from 97-2000, Clark became Bosun after Marc Yager (who was Bosun on the RPF) graduated. Clark thus was privy to the news that filtered back from the Base, and I thus knew unofficially about Michele being pressured to divorce Marc. I didn't know that the divorce actually occurred. I knew she'd not wanted to, and from the men's views on the Int RPF, the trend of wife's buckling under the groups' pressure to divorce us (me too, my wife divorced me, and I almost went nucleur when it occurred), the first thing that comes in your mind is some bitch exec higher up coerced your wife to do it. One for one, it was a recurring ARCX of magnitude for the men on the RPF. I turned around though, and used it as another nail in the Scn coffin, and it allowed me the freedom to get the fuck out of there, now that I had no spouse to go back to, no spouse expecting me to graduate, which I didn't want to graduate anyways (I was hoping still for some intelligent person up the lines to do reprieves, but I was such a "threat" that I saw really it was best I get out). Good joke on permanent posting as an RPFer, this is the kind of humor needed to get on the internet, so that others lurking come out and rip apart all the finer details of the Scn top management fantasy.

Boy, the trend for no time off at Xmas, that IS NEW! Used to be in the 80's it was quite expected to have 2 days off. Why the hell this can't-have change? I think GAT was such a failure, Ray got toasted for that, it is just a long long stream of wrong why bad strategies that trace to DM's know-best influences and his "go big think" when his influenced strats and plannings are just too damn overreaching, overextended,and based on LRH's earlier failed and discarded bright ideas.

He is one stubborn SOB in insisting on major failing strategies, is my quick take of why then in turn staff get into a whole group "we are unworthy" of any Xmas time off. Everyone gets into thinking it is their failure to execute the great saving strategies and plannings, and that's why statistics are down. But also since schedules for the Xmas and New Years are all submitted by 'in-the-know" ("in the loop", the jargon at the Int Base so ingrained, laughable, please use it freely in your answers as it gives the true flavor of things) Int Base org execs humbly aware of their deficiencies so pointedly brought up by DM in his rejects of their proposals, including the past blasting rejects they submitted for their org's time off, so yes, org execs sit around at Exec and Ad Council humbly submitting their staffs to another Scrouge Christmas, which is just wog BS anyways.

I can't believe though, that the rules about taking time off at the end of the big cycles though, isn't applied. Esto Tape reference, they should be taking time off then two week AFTER the events. But if statistic responses are bad, then no time off, and if no time is being taken off, then the stats were bad, and rather than blame the bonehead DM influenced strats, the execs of org blame themselves, the normal Scn pattern. But maybe the "we are bad" atmosphere is just a sunk in serious fad/trend the last 5 or so years or more, mainly since the GAT fiasco. They need a some sort of success to carry them for a few years, and then they will get Christmas off again.

I really like to get the strategiess they are working on. I knew the translation strategy that was supposed to open the doors like never before, that is a complete flop. No millions of new people self-starting sub-movements of Dn's and Scn in new language countries. That was one fad that Marc Yager pushed like crazy for a year or so, and now seems a dropped strategy. I like Marc, though, I had only good experiences with him. That he was the false who for the Int Bases statistics, this in itself has presented DM with his own long duration problem of credibiliy at the top of the heap, which was LRH's credibility problem in the eyes of those followers that rose to being on LRH's lines intimately. This to me all traces back to simple human group historical instances that wog scholars and writers have covered for thousands of years. Scn is just having regular historical problems, set in place by the restricting rules of their founder/leader, LRH having adpted the military guidelines, and cult movement religious guidelines, it is a strange mix, but some things are predictable. LRH in my opinion wove a cocoon that only the top guy in the movement has the power to rip himself out of and change things ultimately, only DM is given enough free will to select the correct direction for bettering things for them all. He is going through the learning curve, we'll see what he can do.

I'd be interested in the major strats, and which are fiascos. GAT, I understand is a serious failure, and it has wiped out whole generations of older-time auditors, who audited by intuition and doing what was right for the pc basically, and now those types of auditors are all FESing or on admin posts, or routed out, or ousted.

I know the building, renos strategies, buying and moving major city orgs into new quarters, and relying on the PL that cleanliness increases income 500% fantasy, is likely a major failing situation. That Jono Epstein is on the RPF, seems somehow connected to probably the typical misdirecting blaming a finance area junior for some relatively minor screwup, to distract one and all from the 500% income improvement fantasy strategy behind all the building investments the past 2 decades.

It to me is almost DM is going through the learning curve of LRH himself, DM trying out LRH's long years of failed bright ideas that LRH tried and failed at, and LRH never admitting to his failures, always blaming staff for lack of execution (like LRH's Dev-T points about altered compliance, etc.), or LRH just veering off onto some new tangent leaving dead in the water his bonehead past bright ideas, and LRH throwing in some of his own announced wrong whys to protect LRH's dumb ideas that didn't work in the first place.

I want to see the think behind the dumb current strategies, because I like to get back to the failed LRH dumb indea that didn't work already. This would show DM's policy understanding limitations in NOT getting which of LRH's past dumb and dropped ideas DM should NOT be reviving as the current big savior of their downstat scene.

I think the longtime CMO people about LRH, picked up by osmosis what LRH believed worked and what didn't work, and saw that LRH himself in his personal mutterings day to day when reviewing Scn administratively, the old CMO people saw LRH more candidly.

And when policy is scrutinized, and even LRH's own words are compared, policy to policy, as he revises his directions based on what he learned, this all adds up to a view that takes in quite a lot of tricky angles. LRH himself knew some of his policies and rules should be retired. He even says so, in a salient PL, that I used frequently in my submissions when I was presenting my CSWs for why the computerized routing forms said to do a particular thing, and why my proposed routing form did NOT tell staff to do certain other things. That is because LRH changed his mind on hundreds of significant points of policy, over the years, and he even was aware that the changes tended to confuse staff, and he had handlings for this.

But DM, is just up to the point in the learning curve, that he's racked up about 15 years of failed strats which he particularly is responsible for pushing hard, and he's seen their failures. If you can reel off in your opinion the top failed strats of the last decade, THAT IS WHAT I WANT TO POST ON ARS, the FAILED STRATS.

Because I do feel we are observing a multilayered failure and ongoing learning curve. It is DM's learning curve, since he puts the stamp of approval on things, and is the top decider.

I do think DM is powerful enough to respond and do something right though. He goes maddog pushing through LRH's past mistakes, he eventually will learn and get something right, not unless LRH was really completely wrong, in which case DM might someday become the next supreme defector should he come to doubt LRH and Scn himself.

I think it is important to pick their actions apart in a public forum, looking at their activities within their own contexts showing their faulty actions within their own rules, which is something intelligent defectors formerly in their midst can do.

Side question, in your experience, were you aware of the OSA passarounds (that's what we called them at ASI)? These were the press clippings of bad and good press against Scn that are xeroxed and sent around 1 or 2 times a week to usually PR staff, so PR staff could formulate responses should they need to respond. These clipping allow a direct line of criticism into the top ranks of the movement.

My point is, anything that gets elevated to printed media or TV, gets a bee-line strait into the top ranks of Scn movement people via the OSA passarounds (press clippings).

I am almost positive CO CMOI, ED Int, LRH Int PPRO and his juniors, and many many others got these press clippings. I think WDc members probably got them.

Which brings to mind another whole subject to ask on. DM's fad himself. He at ASI had a fad of wanting to increase ASI staffers level of "confront of evil". And he did so by forcing the wimpier staff to go see movies he through brutal, like Aliens I think was one he ordered some staff to see, when those staff answered his question wrongly for why they didn't want to go see that movie. His day to day statements and opinions get transferred down the pecking order, is what I observed, when hanging around RTC staff, when I was ASI staff. Some RTC staff held their ground, didn't immediately genuflect to DM, but others did, and all did when it was expected.

Man, you are the first person I have been contacted by, who gets the crap that is going on, and I feel this crap needs to be laid out, so intelligent observers benefit, and also so that correct observations of their idocies fires right back up onto the desks of those who need to start lightening things up, up there.

I wish I could stop time, ask you about 10 hours of questions, then restart time, so I don't waste your time.

I really appreciate your comm.

Thanks.

Best, Chuck Beatty

============================

[Anonymous former Int Base staffer's answer to my first post, at the top of this ARS thread:]

OK Chuck. [snip] ...from what I can see still coming down, it hasn't really changed. By the way, I don't know if you knew that before Marc Yager was on the RPF, he had to do an A-E. He was cordoned off by the pond next to OGH with a bamboo fence. He was in a trailer and his only contact was security. His project was to clean the pond/lake or whatever you want to call it. Big briefing to all base staff how this was THE SP and sighs all around that now stats would rocket since the SP was found so high up. It just had to get better. Didn't happen. During that period, Michelle Yager was convinced to divorce him, as he was declared and he was an SP, after all. Of course, she was wondering, so what happens when he finishes his A-E and gets back. When he did finish, including finishing the RPF, I was told that she wanted to get back with him but he was completely ARCXen with her for disconnecting that he would barely speak to her. I understood his beef, but then what did he think was going to happen? I don't know who specifically had her do it, but as is the case with things there, I'm sure she was told or had it inferred to her that this was either DM's desire or that he would be mightily displeased if she didn't. So I completely understand Marc's beef with her, but on the other hand, what does he think would have happened to her if she hadn't disconnected and divorced him. One of those horrible games played there that reinforces that the first and second dynamic are only for non-staff and must be utterly subservient to the 3rd at all times, if not demolished altogether.

Regarding the team share system, this was cancelled out for the Int organizations and was to be applied to only Gold, with the explanation that it was an LRH advice for Gold, not for the other orgs. So I believe that's currently the case. Face-ripping, SRAs, etc. Long term op basis. Those that could do it well were patted on the back for it. Until they did something wrong. Then that was pointed to as "proof" the person was a psycho. If the person got back in good graces, they were expected to get back into doing it. Have you seen this done outside the base? Do it out here and you'll find yourself in deep sh--. I don't know what those people do when they no longer are in the SO and try to get something done in "the WOG world" with "SRAs" as their main "tech". Of course, as you note, Janice is now out. She got tired of receiving SRAs and probably didn't feel so great about having given them. The reason given to other staff about her and Paul routing out was that they suddenly decided that they were dying to have children. Yet previously she loudly proclaimed that she didn't like children. That was probably what she thought people wanted to hear. But the point is that there were things like the kids, SRAs and so on that people will buy into and then realize they cannot continue playing those games.

Face-ripping. I've seen other comm from you asking about staff being violent. I've seen it. When it's someone high up, the person receiving the violence is pulled in to find out what HIS overts are to have made the exec do that. If it's just a medium-high person, but they've been around a long time, then their wrist gets a slap (maybe they do a danger condition) and anyone who has knowledge of it is told to keep quiet about it "for the good of the group" and that the perpetrator is "being handled". No I never heard that DM had a rule that if the person caved in he was guilty. I don't think he actually had it as a rule. I could imagine others there using it though.

Staying late. As far as I know, it's very very difficult to do anymore. Staff figure out how to get around it and immediate seniors pat them on the back for it. It ebbs and flows as to its acceptance. I think we're seeing a harsh justice period lasting several years now. Looks like it isn't going to end for quite awhile. There are people who have been on the RPF for many, many, many years. Their CSWs to graduate can go up and they now can be years having it go up and back. I'm sure you recognized many of the names on the "RPF Insider" list. Of course, some of those people were already gone by the time that list came out. But others on the list are still there and have been for years. If they haven't been privy to too much uplines information, they will eventually be routed out. If they have been privy, then their best bet is to CSW for permanent posting as an RPFer because that's where they will stay.

Short sleep, as you say, has been a common thing for many people for decades on end. That may have changed a bit, though, as there is such a push for people to be on study and if they are found dozing off they are dealt with harshly by the supervisors.

As you also note, exercise time periodically goes in and out. It got to be such a joke that staff would be told "it's going in firmly!!!!" and staff would look around and mutter "I wonder how long this one will last". It never went more than a week without portions of the org being pulled off it, and then it would just dissipate. And if a flap occurred (when don't they), then it was understood by all that they should just kiss exercise goodbye. It was a nice to have but not in the realm of saving the universe.

I don't know if Christmas and New Years even exists for staff anymore.

Those are times of immense pressure on the staff to produce the "biggest event ever". The New Years 2000 event was a massive flap at Int/Gold and I think the staff are still "atoning" for that. From my understanding, Christmas had become a "nice dinner" that perhaps lasted an hour, then everyone back to work and don't even ask what happened to the Xmases that LRH would allow the staff. I guess he was just worker oriented. There will be plenty of time to celebrate when the billions on earth finally cognite that this is the only way out of the trap and we have saved the universe.

I do see where you're going. Yes, there is a mindset at the base that leads to tremendous pressures. But part of this think is that staff are throwaways compared to eternal freedom for everyone and the universe. So ANY other intention, much less counter intention, is just a step on the road to SP for anyone who dares. Then what do you do?

I don't know if this helped, but that's what I have for now.

[-------]



Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: chuckbeatt...@aol.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 13 Apr 2005 21:32:01 -0700
Local: Wed,Apr 13 2005 9:32 pm
Subject: Re: Int Base atmosphere / comments examples welcome!

Int is an abreviation for "International Headquarters", basically means the not so secret top facility for the Scn movement, where their top top leaders live and work. Here is an aeriel view of it, with some of it's parts labelled.

http://www.lermanet.com/image/­hemet-labeled.jpg

This site has some older data about the Int Base.

http://www.freezone.de/english­/gilman_hot_springs.htm

http://www.lisamcpherson.org/c­os/hemet.htm

(this above is a great tour that public can take even today, of the Int Base, many of its buildings, should you go there Sundays, call ahead for times. I think a number that will get you the info so you can take a tour, is 323-960-3569, that'll get you the Receptionist Gold who can tell you tour times.)

Google "Gilman Hot Springs Sea Org" and read lots and lots of posts mentioning details of events at the Int Base.



Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: chuckbeatt...@aol.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 17 Apr 2005 11:20:09 -0700
Local: Sun,Apr 17 2005 11:20 am
Subject: A few Int Base tidbits. (Any former Int Base staffer can contact me.)

Below is an email comm cycle with me with an ex-Int Base staffer.

I am quite content to receive anyone's two cents about anything, about the Int Base, from people who've been there. You can write like this person below does, in such a way, that any info or news you offer, cannot be traced back to you. And I will further edit out things that might slip by, so to avoid any retaliation.

It is my opinion that there are thousands of details of life at the Int Base, which can be offered by former Int Base staffers and none of these details are traceable to any particular individual, since these are all common knowledge at the Int Base.

At least 10 former Int Base staffers have offered stories and info which I have posted, in the last 9 months since I have gone public myself. (And those who've been there, know how much of a minor potato I was, so they know how much of the iceberg is still to be revealed.)

chuckbeatt...@aol.com
412-260-1170
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckb­eatty77/

I think this is good simply for history's sake.

==============================­=================

[former Int Base staffer speaking]

Thanks Chuck. The translations boards were put up and used for awhile. I don't think it's really on the back burner. But there are so many things that flap that attention goes off and on and back off and on again with practically any area. That's why busting long term execs creates such a problem. It's a constant juggle of personnel. By the way, I'd bet that having Lisa Allen on as CO Gold helps quite a bit. I'm sure you know that Gold had a parade of CO's go through there for years. She has been there longer than most and is actually pretty good from all reports. She is ruthless yet fair and does not seem to operate on whim and certainly does not have the "beaten dog" attitude that many past and present have had and do have.

You're right about Greg Brown. That was very sad. He was just a good guy who did work hard but ... I know that this health situation for staff has got senior attention at various times and there were to be more checkups for them and so forth. But I also know of other cases of staff dying of cancer. I don't know that this is above the percentage for the general population out here, probably lower. But more checkups would help and not just brushing people off, which I think is mostly done at the lower levels of staff as it becomes a problem for them and they'd rather non-confront it. "Postulate the best" becomes "non-confront reality".

Yes the food at Gold/Int is still superb and way above PAC and HGB. Pinuccio still does the pastries as far as I know, although I heard he went on some various missions too. They had put together a pretty good team in the galley. Although some personnel pass through it, there is a basic unit that has held and they consistently produce high quality. In fact you'd be hard-pressed to find anything like it anywhere except the very best restaurants. And that's consistent. Yes, Saturday was still hamburger day and still probably is.

Musters for Gold have changed back and forth being behind Building 36 and behind MCI. But yes, the musters are held outside.

Fire drills and hose drilling goes on and off at times. But generally it is kept in. The staff there are certainly more prepared than any other place I've seen for physical emergencies other than the ship of course.

Not sure what Norman Starkey is doing these days. He was always off doing a lot of different activities and not always visible....

Yes, Dave Bloomberg was replaced by Karen Hollander but continued in the area for awhile. Not sure of his present position.

...

[----]

[chuck speaking]

thanks for this below.

No worries on NOT revealing ANYTHING that would lead to some retaliation. I won't even post this below, no problem. I don't know and have not figured out who you are, and I think it best to keep it that way. I myself am quite content to NOT get too much into anyone's life, and I have NO problem with not knowing anything you DON'T want to let out.

Yea, if you are going along, and want to say something, and need an outlet,let me know.

I myself, I just like to get out info that would NOT lead back to any individual. But would be known to ALL people who have left. There are so many interesting details about the Int Base that to people who have no clue what it is all about there, it helps one and all to get out day to day mundane details, I feel, about life there.

1) I remember when I was in the RPF at the Int Ranch, we did a whole bunch of the translation boards, the swinging boards that were to be used to keep track of the translations. Do you remember if these boards were put into use, and then how long the whole translation evolution was hot, and when it got cold and petered out, and if it is sort of lost and a back burner thing now?

2) I got from Micho Danilovich, when Micho came down to the PAC RPF in 2002, and Micho then took over as the Bosun for the PAC RPF from Jesse Reiss, since Jesse graduated with Stefan Lewis (Stefan changed his name back to his actual real last name, Castle, and he's actually Stefan Castle today), but Micho said that Clark Morton was repreived in late 2000 and Clark went to head the sets construction at Gold Cine at that time, and probably my guess is Clark might still be there. This is just personal, since Clark was my Int RPF twin for a couple years, and despite some serious differences of reality, I like Clark, and know he's a damn good exec and was really good at sets work/overseeing the sets for movies, videos and events. Did you know if Clark was still in sets let's say, 2001, 2002 or thereabouts, that is what I got from Micho when Micho came down in 2002. (Both Micho and Clark and then Maj Wheelis, were my 3 Int Base twins. I also twinned very shortly with Kevin Posten, he routed out in late 2000. I also twinned with Greg Brown, who died of cancer, that was a sad situation (when we were twinned, he complained about his stomach, and wanted to go to a doc, he saw the MLO a couple times, but she never sent him to a doc, not until 4-5 months later and it was way too late, his stomach cancer had advanced and spread too far. I was no help, unfortunately either, sad to admit, I thought it was all in his head, that to me was a real lesson of how wrong Scn can be in thinking physical pain is mental, when in his case the pain was physical, and had he gone to a doc 4 months earlier, when the pain started, he might have had a better chance of living). I went to the May 9th event 2004, my last church event, before I basically left town, left LA and moved to Pittsburgh, and at the May 9th event, in the audience, I saw a bunch of the former Int RPFers who had since transferred to the PAC RPF, and who subsequently all graduated. I saw Stefan Lewis Castle, Jesse Reiss, and a couple more. I saw a whole slew of other guys who never hit the PAC RPF, but who had come down anyways, like Sigmar Pietsch, and Charlie Rush. Foster Tompkins came down sometime in 2002 or 2003, and so did Mark Treasure. There are lots of the ex-Gold guys in PBC (Pac Base Crew) and they have spread into AOLA, the higher case level ones. The whole PAC area is getting an injection of lots of good people who'd been busted from the Int Base.

I expect in the years to come, more will come out. More will drift all the way out, and as they also lose the strings that tie them to the Scn mentality, then more may reveal some of the odder moments in their Sea Org careers uplines.

There are so many details that have not even been written about.

2) Is the food scene still a whole notch above the PAC and HGB food, with Pinuccio still doing great pastry and bakery goods? Was hamburger day still Saturday?

3) Are musters uplines still done outdoors, like Gold's after lunch muster, is it still held in the parking lot below building 36?

4) Were they still doing firedrills, hose drilling?

5) I know in the late 90's the RTC trainees program was heavy, and lots of long runway training for RTC apprentices. Was that still going on. (Reason I think this is a "good" thing is that the clique around DM will eventually have to someday step aside or their ranks will inevitably thin, as they grow too old, and die of old age, so RTC will need to have a corp of long range people to replace their top ranks, etc., with.)

6) Was Exec Strata sort of still long range unstable, meaning only Diana and ED Int being the only 2 long long range people who were on post and who held out over the decades? Any other long long term Exec Strata execs. snip

7) Do you know what Norman Starkey was up to. I know in the mid 90's he and Maria hung out in RTC, and Norman I know has traditionally overseen CST and the external properties, and the LRH trust, and he oversees the biography, since Norman is a great speaker writer for "source" briefings.

8) Was David Bloomberg, I know in the late 90's he was Int PPRO, but then I think he got replaced, as I saw Karen Hollender was Int PPRO for the 2000 event.

....

Okay, sorry, I get on a roll, on questions. That's all for now.

Best, Chuck

......



Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: chuckbeatt...@aol.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 17 Apr 2005 09:00:21 -0700
Local: Sun,Apr 17 2005 9:00 am
Subject: Int Base recent trip by ex Int Base staffer

Recent drive by description of the Int Base, by an ex-Int base staffer:

==============================­=====

Hi Chuck,

(snip)

....I drove by the Int base. [see this aeirel photo for the points mentioned http://www.lermanet.com/image/­hemet-labeled.jpg

....there was very little to see. One change is that quite a few large, dense bushes now line the fences along both sides of the highway. So for example, MCI, the Villas (where the RTC execs live) and the Lodges were not visible. I could see part of the CMO Int Building, the spa (Qual), Building 36, the film lab, part of the garage, and the new RTC building. There are way more and bigger bushes than there were 10 years ago.

(I don't know if you know that CMO Int moved out of Del Sol around '97 into a sort of modular building like a large mobile home, with two halves somehow being attached to each other. It is located below Del Sol not far from the 200s (where RTRC was) but closer to the highway. It is still there. It was, I believe, supposed to be temporary until the new CMOI building was built. I don't remember exactly where the new CMOI building was supposed to be, but it was not far from the new RTC building. I did not see signs of construction going on around that area.)

It was at about 1:00 p.m. on a Saturday. I did not see renos happening. In fact I couldn't see anybody. This may have no significance.

One point that was interesting is that the berthing buildings appear to be still incomplete. I could see a doorway with no door and pallets with construction materials on them. We are going on 10 years since you and others started pouring the pads for them. What is up with that?

Another point of interest was BV. I think I mentioned to you that it is huge. It looks like a mansion that one would see in an old wealthy neighborhood in a major U.S. city. It is not white with a blue roof like the rest of the buildings on the base. It is barely and briefly visible from the highway. However, if you drive on the Ramona Expressway, especially if you turn off on that small road that goes along the other side of the river, you get a pretty clear view of it. (I don't know if you know that road -- it goes from the Ramona Expressway, curves around past a couple of dairy farms and comes out near the bridge on State St. by the golf course.)

One time ....DM briefed them that the house was built the way it was because LRH would be living there (upon his "return"). I find that fascinating. The building must have been quite an investment, yet the berthing buildings are apparently an abandoned project. AND they must still be paying an exorbitant amount for rent for the staff apartments in Hemet and San Jacinto.

The most prominent features from the highway when driving by the base are the castle (Cine studios), Qual (the building with the cross and stained glass window) and the new RTC building.

There is nothing very earth shattering about any of this. But it was somehow interesting to be looking at it all as an outsider rather than from the inside.

Anyway, FYI.

[-------]



Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology BR>From: chuckbeatt...@aol.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 16 Apr 2005 20:02:10 -0700
Local: Sat,Apr 16 2005 8:02 pm
Subject: Probably a stupid question re David Miscavige

Question:

1) Should David Miscavige (or top leader in the Scientology movement) be to Scientology what the Pope is to the Catholic church and what the Dalai Lama is to Tibetan Buddhism?

2) What qualities does David Miscavige lack, that if he possessed and exemplified, then he'd be more like the Pope is to the Catholic Church and the Dalai Lama is to Tibetan Buddhism?

Best, Chuck Beatty, Ex-Sea Org, 75-03
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckbeatty77
[email protected]
412-260-1170 (call after 9pm EST)

==============================

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "RolandRB"
Date: 18 Apr 2005 05:19:51 -0700
Local: Mon,Apr 18 2005 5:19 am
Subject: Re: Probably a stupid question re David Miscavige

[RolandRB answers:]

You forget that Scientology is not a turn-the-other-cheek religion. He should not be the pope type - he should be the punching preacher type.

Maybe if he could spit further...

============================

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: chuckbeatt...@aol.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 18 Apr 2005 10:30:27 -0700
Local: Mon,Apr 18 2005 10:30 am
Subject: Re: Probably a stupid question re David Miscavige

that's a good one: "punching preacher"
"the punching preachers"
"L. Ron Hubbard's top clique of punching preachers and
vicious spitters."

This is bad, juvenile.

But, I find myself listing [the Scn tech of listing answers to a charged [reacting on their emeter] valid listing question] here. Like I am trying to answer a long duration (since the 90's) self-listing question: "What image does the top leadership of the Scn movement present to the world?"

As I rose in the ranks over the years (late 80's to mid 90's), slipping up the back routes, myself moving up to positions vacated by staffers who themselves had had enough and who had departed suddenly (blowing), the momentary cruelty although pervasive steely mindset of those that I then crossed paths with at the top of the Scn movement was at odds with what I wished and thought should be presented to the world by leaders of a religion.

I thought about these things, when I was at ASI, thinking if DM's image on the Ted Koppel TV interview was incorrect, and I asked myself what should be done instead. I know others thought what they would do instead of DM, as far as trying to get Scn presented in a saner fashion to the world, not by artifice, but by actual deeds well done.

Others in the top echelon also considered that DM was an SP, this is grounds for immediate post removal and RPFing, but the thoughts did pass people's minds.

I never really believed, down deep, there are such things as SPs. Only because I've heard how "SPs" when "confronted" in real life stories outside the Scn context, I learned that "SPs" when confronted often break down into severe remorse and freely admissions of their past behavior (brings to mind the Jesse Prince story of how DM was sobbing when his overts were about to be exposed and he was fearing losing his Messenger status were LRH to find out DM's overts). I think it instead probably more routine human reaction for ALL people who act "SP" that they break down and whimper and plead if they are stopped and confronted and forced to admit faults and face the punishment they realize they deserve/fear for their honestly admitted faults/actions. These extremely emotional moments when people experience them, there is tremendous rapidity of changing interacting contrasting mental thoughts and reactions.

To me this shows that Scn/LRH descriptions of human behavior are inadequate (his SP doctrines), and that LRH has the Scn movement members locked into a mindset which pits them against their "enemies", and keeps them from grasping their faults, like LRH failed to realize his own faults.

And we end up with Scn leaders with a very non-religious image.

LRH's punching preachers and vicious spitters now are the men who run the Scn movement.

Scn and its top leaders are by name only in the same kettle of fish as other religions with their leaders.

I was still just bringing up these feeble questions, thinking that Scn might try to change. but likely they will be unable to do so, not until the current top clique of leaders pass away from old age.

Scn I've always known is completely out of the league and LRH's rules precludes them approaching the religious image of traditional religions.

This is a long duration almost insurmountable problem for them. And their delusional defensive reaction is another reason I couldn't stay in this group.

Chuck Beatty

=======================

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "RolandRB" - Find messages by this author
Date: 19 Apr 2005 00:09:27 -0700
Local: Tues,Apr 19 2005 12:09 am
Subject: Re: Probably a stupid question re David Miscavige [RolandRB writes:]

How come you haven't yet got an entry on RFW?

========================

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology

From: chuckbeatt...@aol.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 20 Apr 2005 09:50:47 -0700
Local: Wed,Apr 20 2005 9:50 am
Subject: Re: Probably a stupid question re David Miscavige

Better answered by others. My guess they still have a soft spot for me. I am not quite a fitting candidate since I have said so many good things about most of the Sea Org people I've known. I don't think the Scn belief system needs to disintegrate, I'm fine on them continuing the things their members appreciate. I just think all the objectionable activities that harm them and others should all cease, and they should allow their members the same rights and freedoms as regular people in society.

Chuck Beatty



Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: chuckbeatt...@aol.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 18 Apr 2005 18:22:30 -0700
Local: Mon,Apr 18 2005 6:22 pm
Subject: Re: RPF Pole map + sat image

From: Tilman Hausherr

RPF Pole map + sat image:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=­hemet&ll=33.832537,-116.985276­&spn=0.00...

(snip)

=============================

Thankyou very much! This is excellent.

I have been wanting to get former Int Base staffers to come forward and label the buildings. I have gotten some help, and on Lerma Net, here, are the buidlings labelled so far.
http://www.lermanet.com/image/­hemet-labeled.jpg

This google map is excellent!!!

Anyone wanting a live tour, we can both be looking at this site at the same moment, and I will guide you building by building, and give you a complete tour of everything I know about the Int Base.

Seriously, call me weekends, after 9pm either Sat or Sunday, eastern standard time. 412-260-1170. I get weekend rates, so it is free.

I'd be happy to give anyone a building by building tour. Honestly.

Realize you can always go to the Int Base on Sunday and get a tour of a fraction of the buildings, but that live tour on Sundays, is free, and they give refreshments.

Best, Chuck Beatty
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckb­eatty77/chuckbeatt...@aol.com

PS: Former Int Base staffers wishing to update me, call also, and help me get uptodate.

PPS: too bad on the pole though. RPFers don't get to do the running program any more. Only Int Base staffers get to do it, and it is NOT a welcome thing. The lady who used to be the Running Program I/C for years, is on the PAC RPF currently. She's a good person though, so I don't wish to knock her.

PPPS: On Happy Valley, email me, and you can walk me through how to get there, and I will tell you all about it also!!



Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: chuckbeatt...@aol.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 20 Apr 2005 19:43:42 -0700
Local: Wed,Apr 20 2005 7:43 pm
Subject: Scientology Sea Org's longrange personnel problems

I got infoed recently that one of the two seniors over the PAC RPF, failed and routed out of the Sea Org, sometime last year or earlier, I forget which.

This led me to a chain of thoughts, and a conclusion I think other former Scn tech people have observed and spoken about in other ways over the years.

------------------------------­-----

In the 7 years overall that I was on the RPF and the "decks", this D/RPF I/C for Tech position was newly created. The Deputy RPF I/C for Tech has the responsibility for the tech standards in the PAC RPF, in my opinion it is a brutally challanging position. I sympathize with anyone having to cover this position. I think the only way an individual can hold that position is if they are a remarkably compassionate and "natural auditor" type. It takes an "auditor of the year" caliber person in my opinion, to successfully hold that position.

1) In the latest series of issues for the RPF for the Sea Org (issued in 1997 I believe), it is stated in RPF Series # 0, I recall, LRH admits, that the only failure of someone getting through the RPF is a tech or auditing failure. For this singular reason, the brunt of the "failures" of people thus getting through the RPF can thus be potentially "blamed" on the standardness of the tech being applied in the RPF, and thus the senior Sea Org person most responsible for the tech in the RPF is the D/RPF I/C for Tech. This is why this post is a potential lightening rod position. Whoever holds it has to be damn good with people, since RPFers for lots of reasons, are difficult to deal with, and handling their "cases" is similarly not a walk in the park generally.

2) I remember the creation of this position, D/RPF I/C for Tech, happened in the late 1990's. On the Int RPF, the Int RPF I/C, Chris Guider was given a D/RPF I/C for Tech two times. The first one was Catherine Mazzarand, a remarkably good natural auditor ("auditor of the year" caliber, and a correct posting by some very wise Int Base exec who had the authority to post this post correctly!), and for whatever reason Catherine was probably needed elsewhere more urgently and didn't stay on the D/RPF I/C for Tech post under Chris Guider. She is an exceptional auditor in my opinion, top class. She gave me several sec checks, and had excellent auditor presence, beingness, impecable auditor's code, she is just a naturally good human being in my book. She is the minimum quality of person who has to be posted on the D/RPF I/C for Tech post. Later in 2000 or so, Chris Guider got another D/RPF I/C for Tech, Ute Shian, who a fine person, is just not a natural "auditor of the year" caliber auditor/tech person. Then later when I was on the PAC RPF, when I saw the new Deputy RPF I/C for Tech, that was posted under the PAC RPF I/C, instantly I saw that that person was NOT going to make it. Even though the person was a Class 6, they were unfortunately NOT a natural "auditor of the year" caliber. And when the chips are down, and the D/RPF I/C for Tech has to jump in and audit an RPFer directly, it takes a whole higher level auditor/human being. This D/RPF I/C for Tech for the PAC RPF didn't last, and failed.

3) I think the official Scn movement unfortunately just lacks these top top top notch natural auditors ("auditor of the year" natural auditor) caliber people overall.

4) It's going to take them some years (decades) to nuture and replace these "natural" "auditor of the year" caliber people into their ranks. These "auditor of the year" type people are truly the behind the scenes invisibile cornerstones of the Scn movement's longrange success chances. These are just remarkably damn good people. And enough of them have to raise into the exec ranks, because their character as people is what is needed in the Scn movement Sea Org executive ranks. Jens Urskov and Anna-Kirsten Urskov are these types of exceptional people. Dan and Sue Koon are likewise these type of exceptional people, truly auditor of the year caliber people.

5) Scn won't make it, unless the Sea Org allows their best human beings, which in my opinion are their "auditor of the year" caliber people, to increase in number and spread their innate goodness into the movement.

I think having sane, innately humane, human beings in their high positions, is a serious part of their problem.

Golden Age of Tech does NOT make these types of human beings.

Part of the Scn movement's problem is nuturing and allowing these types of innately humane human beings to gain a foothold in the the Sea Org and remain safe from being torn apart with the day to day petty crap that goes on in the movement.

This I think is one SERIOUS longrange important reason for Scn longrange failing apparantly.

Chuck Beatty

==================

From: "friendship"
Date: 21 Apr 2005 00:16:06 -0700

Dear Chuck,

I agree with you to a point, but also agree with Phil. There are several auditors who are still 'in' -- auditing in the field or in Missions who are excellent auditors. But they are not stellar group members, in my opinion, as they refuse to confront the tyranny at the top and do something, no matter on what meager level, to handle it. They tend to try to blame themselves, which will not create an as-isness. If DM is the source of something (altering the Tech as in the GAT) then he is the source. If what he orders has negative effects, well then he is the source, or the main source. Auditors will often try to change that around to accept the blame themselves. Well, that is altering the source and this only causes persistence of the problem. False responsibility leads to degradation just as surely as irresponsibility does.

So these Sea Org members who go along with the tyranny and the Scns remaining in the field are just engaging in rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, as they say.

============================

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: chuckbeatt...@aol.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 21 Apr 2005 08:12:47 -0700
Local: Thurs,Apr 21 2005 8:12 am
Subject: Re: Scientology Sea Org's longrange personnel problems

"Rearranging deck chairs on the Titantic". That's a good one. I sure learned how to do that.

Scn is about auditing (supposedly, I know it really seems now about money). No one envisions going in session with DM. Whereas older people in Scn probably used to dream of getting audited by LRH. Or at least "C/Sed" by LRH. (This desire to be audited by LRH might also be a myth too, don't know if people one for one were happy with LRH's auditing.)

Just seems to me, a major major major senior Scn leadership ongoing strategic omission is their lack of protection and support of their "auditor of the year" types.

If Scn is going to go anywhere, and not just meander all over the place in it's delusional quasi-religious, quasi-money-grubbing stupor, while DM goes through his own learning curve trying out his concoctions of LRH's own past failed bright ideas, they need to make their great auditors safe and let their auditor types make their innate sane influence felt within the movement. To me it looks like they've developed a permanent blindness to these auditor types in their midst.

Scn leadership has SO MUCH written LRH directions to carry out, that LRH has inadvertantly distracted Scn leadership with too much to keep them mentally occupied that they don't see the most important things that make Scientology Scientology. Their good auditors.

Best, Chuck Beatty

PS: There is a Flag Order that DM personally needs to apply, which is the short little one-half page Flag Order that I pushed when I was at Flag, trying to get staff at Flag to go to staff courses. It is the short little Flag Order where LRH says it is command intention that all Sea Org members, at whatever distant date, become Class VIII auditors and FEBC trained, and capable of holding Commanding Officer positions in their Sea Org organizations. DM has complied with only part of this LRH command intention order. DM still has to comply with becoming a Class VIII auditor. This to be is a SERIOUS charge against him. It is something he needs to honestly DO! As DM learns how to be a Class VIII, the movement would inevitably lighten up. I doubt he can do this, but he should.



Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "friendship" - Find messages by this author
Date: 24 Apr 2005 20:27:42 -0700
Local: Sun,Apr 24 2005 8:27 pm
Subject: Re: Survey to be filled out by Ex Int Base staffers

http://alley.ethercat.com/xint­/>

Ex Int Base staff should fill the above survey out, for historical purposes, to record the ongoing events at the Int Base over the years so others can see and compare events over the years.

> Thanks. > Chuck Beatty > 412-260-1170 (call after 9pm weekdays, and anytime weekends) > (Pittsburgh time, Eastern Standard Time)

========================

[from Friendship:]

Thanks for doing this project, Chuck. I hope you repost it at least once a week. It's easy for posts to this newsgroup to get lost.

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: chuckbeatt...@aol.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 25 Apr 2005 13:24:50 -0700
Local: Mon,Apr 25 2005 1:24 pm
Subject: Re: Survey to be filled out by Ex Int Base staffers

You are so right.

Just after my slew of postings in the past 48 hours, another 2 ex-Int Base staffers who I'd never known, and who are remaining anonymous, contacted me.

The accumulated agreements, paranoia, legal docs people had to sign, those barriers are NOT human historically supported barriers.

The barriers to people communicating their lives and thoughts, are as unstopable as trying to prevent the effects of gravity.

Thanks again to the people who've contacted me.

In the past month it is 5 or 6 ex-Int Base staffers or people who've been at the Int Base, all new contacts to me, have phoned or emailed me!

I definitely hope to help release the paranoia about discussing one's life in the top ranks of the Scn movement.

Thanks!

Best, Chuck Beatty
ex-Sea Org (1975-2003)
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckb­eatty77/
412-260-1170 (call after 9pm New York City time; after 6pm LA time;
after 5pm Denver time)



Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: chuckbeatt...@aol.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 24 Apr 2005 14:27:47 -0700
Local: Sun,Apr 24 2005 2:27 pm
Subject: Re: Scientology Sea Org's longrange personnel problems

Deo,

I saw a few hanging out in the Anthony Building, down Fountain Ave from the Complex, in the berthing builiding used by HGB staffers.

When I was routing out of the PAC RPF, I had to go to the Anthony Building to retrieve my stored belongings which were randomly stored in rooms on 3 different floors, etc.

Hanging out in the lobby and on the balcony entrance walkup area, were two woman over 70 years, one probably over 80 years. I was told, when I asked, that they work very reduced schedules, and realize if they are US citizens, they get more in their 400-600 per month social security checks than the movement pays them (50 per week).

From april 2003 to Jun 2004, I saw these old ladies ALSO at the 99 cent store on Sunset, the big one, and around dinner time, so they were definitely NOT working evenings.

They loll around the Anthony Building, the HGB semi-retired Sea Orgers, and spend their social security checks within walking distance of the Anthony Building.

You know anyone could just plant themselves around the complex or Anthony Building, and by intelligent observations figure out all sorts of things about Sea Org conditions, etc.

As long at they can walk and talk, they'll let them hang out like that I expect.

I heard Eunice Ford, when she got really really old, was put in the old people's home just a few blocks further down Fountain Ave, and I expect the same for the Sea Org oldest timers.

Yea, too bad, some are oblivious to all sorts of things they are missing. I'm not immune to those criticisms by a long shot myself, but life is a personal choice matter, and I'm sure you'd be hard pressed to change their tightly closed minds. They'd insist all was well, at least socially.

Hey man! What about the IAS people overseas? How do you think they will retire? Are they all still holed up in Cyprus?

Chuck



Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: chuckbeatt...@aol.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 24 Apr 2005 18:17:11 -0700
Local: Sun,Apr 24 2005 6:17 pm
Subject: Re: Who should get the Money when Scientology collapses!!!!

Thanks very much for what you write.

There is no other place to go, is there, really, for all who post here, the ex-official Scn people that is.

The odd mix of people posting here, parallels the variously informed public as exists anywhere in the world.

I like to post, and encourage the stream of existing and future Sea Org upper echelon defectors to post, since then at least their thoughts and experiences are down in writing somewhere, for future more intelligent writers to have the raw data to do the sociological studies of whatever you want to call the Scn movement.

If the official Scn movement comes crashing down fast, there'd be no need for getting all the current ex Int Base staffers two cents worth. My current "delusion" is that I think the current Scn official leadership will bludgeon their minions and the movement along for a few more decades, until they then historically get to the next major hump of transferring power from this first generation of "young turks" (DM, et all) to the next generation. We'll see if they make it to that step as a religious movement, or whatever you want to call it.

I encourage particularly all ex Int Base staff who have firsthand observations about the Int Base to please come forward, post, contact me, fill out the survey at this site, anonymously,

http://alley.ethercat.com/xint­/
so the news does make it to the public domain.

And I also encourage all ex-Sea Org members of HGB level and CLO level orgs, to post their experiences to the anti-Scn sites, and to

http://alley.ethercat.com/door­/ .

Chuck Beatty



Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: chuckbeatt...@aol.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 24 Apr 2005 14:46:59 -0700
Local: Sun,Apr 24 2005 2:46 pm
Subject: Who should get the Money when Scientology collapses!!!!

If the Scn new religious movement collapses, I think their hoards of hundreds of millions of dollars ought to roughly go to the following:

1) Original people donating for Scn religious activities/services who want their money back, should be first to get their money back.

2) Govt agencies leeched on by the Scn movement, those Govt agencies funded out of the taxpayers pockets, should be compensated to make up what the public has shelled out covering Scn's lack of chipping in).

3) Staff should be paid the omitted minimum wages they were denied with any leftover money.

4) Anything leftover, then let attornies battle for it.

Chuck Beatty



From: ""
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Another two ex-Int Base staffers contact me. Thanks!
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:51:20 -0700

Another two brand new ex-Int Base staffers, who left varying numbers of years ago, but hey, anyone can come out whenever they feel like it.

Hooray for them. In my 8 months of going public on the Internet, this now makes over 13 ex-Int Base staffers who have contacted me!

I won't out anyone, and you can contact me anonymously, and I will give you any advice, data, anything to assist you, that I can.

I appreciate the two people who found and contacted me within the last week!

My purpose re ex-Int Base staffers: 1) Encourage them to write their histories, at least for posterity (meaning release your stories AFTER you pass away, so Scn does NOT retaliate in any way and mess your life up); 2) Try to set a new trend, where it is just not so damn paranoid, and people are just free to communicate their lives, and break down the paranoia that being a long duration Sea Org staffer who may have risen to the Int Base ranks inevitably instills in us; 3) And inform the public about ongoing events at the top of the Scn movement, which at least give the unofficial flavor of life and changes, or lack of them, at the top of the Scn movement; 4) provide raw material for sociologists and researchers who may wish to have the insider details of life at the Int Base, for ongoing research into the Scn religious movement.

I won't out you, and I welcome anyone just wishing to undo some of the suppressed communication you may have felt.

Best, Chuck Beatty

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: chuckbeatt...@aol.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 24 Apr 2005 22:41:42 -0700
Local: Sun,Apr 24 2005 10:41 pm
Subject: Re: Robert Vaughn Young re Mental State August 1997

Ida,

Thank you for this excellent post. Vaughn's material is vital reading for former Sea Org and former OSA staff coming out.

I think we are overdue for another defector of Vaughn Young's, Stacy Young's, and other's caliber.

In the 80's and 90's I'd seen OSA staff blow, and their lives blow up. They'd get patched up.

I hope some blow and help get the news out of what has been going on in the past decade.

Somehow, one of them has to muster up the courage to cross the line, and step forward and speak out freely.

Some ex-OSA person needs to come out and give info on the OSA issues that were compiled in the late 80's. Particularly, in late 1988, the OSA Int and CMO Int issue writing project to compile the essential OSA LRH signatory issues, compiled using the old original Guardian's Orders, and the original LRH advices to the GO that the Guardian's Orders were based on, were re-compiled, to become the "new" Office of Special Affairs Executive Directives, or similar issue name.

All the Guardian's Orders and other LRH advices to the Guardian's Office were just repackaged into OSA Issues.

Someday, when the public gets its hands on these absolutely NON-SCRIPTURAL "religious" writings, and compare them to the earlier Guardian's Orders, then the fascade of change from the GO to OSA will be completely exposed!

Right now all the official church can do is hide these written connections back to the Guardian's Office.

The compilers of the OSA issues from the earlier materials, were Trish Allen and Jacqueline Kevanar (spelling?).

I saw these two ladies compiling away, there in RTRC, in the "200's" buildings, in late summer, early fall of 1988. I sat next to them for a short time, and heard and saw some of the issues Trish was still waiting for "okay" on.

I can think with using the terminology "Dept 20" for the GO-OSA departmental duties that both entities covered. That's why they both were Dept 20. One of the ironies of LRH's policy contraining rules about organization boards he'd authored, was that there was no other logical place for OSA and Dept of Special Affairs to go on LRH's laid in concrete 7 division organizing board. They couldn't put OSA in a different department, it wouldn't fit. So OSA went right into the same Department that the Guardian's Offce had been in. Pretty ironically incriminating proof that the movement considers OSA the replacement for the GO, and this is thanks again to LRH. (LRH possessed a unique blend of bold cheerfulness, malice and unwitting stupidity, which Gore Vidal noticed in LRH when he met LRH back in the 1950's.)

Best, Chuck Beatty



Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: chuckbeatt...@aol.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 24 Apr 2005 14:56:34 -0700
Local: Sun,Apr 24 2005 2:56 pm
Subject: "One Was Stubborn" by LRH

There is a pulp fiction fantasy genre story by LRH, called "One Was Stubborn".

It is worth reading and comparing LRH to the "farmer" character, who in the course of this short story, rises to godlike self-realization and power.

Written I think in 1940's, not sure if 40-41 or after the war.

This story and LRH's "Death's Deputy" I think are important LRH writings that reflect on LRH himself.

Chuck Beatty



Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: chuckbeatt...@aol.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 24 Apr 2005 16:55:09 -0700
Local: Sun,Apr 24 2005 4:55 pm
Subject: Re: Clam Bake is a cheap HOTDOG stand!

Dear SunSurfer,

I chose Clambake as the first site to chat at. I was on Sea Org staff for 27 years, my last 7 years in the RPF. I was able to find Clambake, and post on it easily.

I don't think I was the first ex-Sea Org staffer, to find and post on Clambake.

I put my whole Sea Org history on Clambake, and appreciate greatly the support and criticism I received from those posting there. Sure it is more beginner like.

But most long range Scn religious followers are not apt to post or read any anti-Scn site.

May I ask SunSurfer if you are able to phone me, if you don't know me, please just call me from an unlisted or pay phone, and if we've never met, I won't recognize you. I am curious, from a historical point of view, what type of person you are and why you even post on ARS yourself.

What is your reaction to what I have said above.

Call me on weekends, and I'd like to hear your views, on things you wish to debate.

Thanks.

Best, Chuck Beatty
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
412-260-1170
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckb­eatty77/

PS: I think all efforts to "shut" someone else up are wrong. Let people speak or write, that's what I think mankind has concluded is the correct longrange policy. People can say what they want, and they will be judged accordingly, by others. But let people speak! Let people on the anti-Scn sites say what they damn well want! I hated the internal Sea Org and Scn anti-free speech rules, it is just wrong. Not only that, but ironically all the negative anti-Scn media is clipped and recorded, and passed around for the top Scn movement leaders to read and absorb and see what they planned to do to counter it anyways. Only the lower echelon members are told NOT to look or read the anti-Scn press!



Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: chuckbeatt...@aol.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 24 Apr 2005 17:22:10 -0700
Local: Sun,Apr 24 2005 5:22 pm
Subject: Survey to be filled out by Ex Int Base staffers

http://alley.ethercat.com/xint­/

Ex Int Base staff should fill the above survey out, for historical purposes, to record the ongoing events at the Int Base over the years so others can see and compare events over the years.

Thanks.

Chuck Beatty
412-260-1170 (call after 9pm weekdays, and anytime weekends)
(Pittsburgh time, Eastern Standard Time)

================================

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "friendship" - Find messages by this author
Date: 24 Apr 2005 20:27:42 -0700
Local: Sun,Apr 24 2005 8:27 pm
Subject: Re: Survey to be filled out by Ex Int Base staffers

Thanks for doing this project, Chuck. I hope you repost it at least once a week. It's easy for posts to this newsgroup to get lost.

============================================

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: chuckbeatt...@aol.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 25 Apr 2005 13:24:50 -0700
Local: Mon,Apr 25 2005 1:24 pm
Subject: Re: Survey to be filled out by Ex Int Base staffers

You are so right.

Just after my slew of postings in the past 48 hours, another 2 ex-Int Base staffers who I'd never known, and who are remaining anonymous, contacted me.

The accumulated agreements, paranoia, legal docs people had to sign, those barriers are NOT human historically supported barriers.

The barriers to people communicating their lives and thoughts, are as unstopable as trying to prevent the effects of gravity.

Thanks again to the people who've contacted me.

In the past month it is 5 or 6 ex-Int Base staffers or people who've been at the Int Base, all new contacts to me, have phoned or emailed me!

I definitely hope to help release the paranoia about discussing one's life in the top ranks of the Scn movement.

Thanks!

Best, Chuck Beatty
ex-Sea Org (1975-2003)
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckb­eatty77/
412-260-1170 (call after 9pm New York City time; after 6pm LA time;
after 5pm Denver time)



Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: chuckbeatt...@aol.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 25 Apr 2005 12:51:35 -0700
Local: Mon,Apr 25 2005 12:51 pm
Subject: Another two ex-Int Base staffers contact me. Thanks!

Another two brand new ex-Int Base staffers, who left varying numbers of years ago, but hey, anyone can come out whenever they feel like it.

Hooray for them. In my 8 months of going public on the Internet, this now makes over 13 ex-Int Base staffers who have contacted me!

I won't out anyone, and you can contact me anonymously, and I will give you any advice, data, anything to assist you, that I can.

I appreciate the two people who found and contacted me within the last week!

My purpose re ex-Int Base staffers: 1) Encourage them to write their histories, at least for posterity (meaning release your stories AFTER you pass away, so Scn does NOT retaliate in any way and mess your life up); 2) Try to set a new trend, where it is just not so damn paranoid, and people are just free to communicate their lives, and break down the paranoia that being a long duration Sea Org staffer who may have risen to the Int Base ranks inevitably instills in us; 3) And inform the public about ongoing events at the top of the Scn movement, which at least give the unofficial flavor of life and changes, or lack of them, at the top of the Scn movement; 4) provide raw material for sociologists and researchers who may wish to have the insider details of life at the Int Base, for ongoing research into the Scn religious movement.

I won't out you, and I welcome anyone just wishing to undo some of the suppressed communication you may have felt.

Best, Chuck Beatty

=============================

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: Anonymous-Remai...@See.Comment.Header (Cerridwen) - Find messages by this author
Date: 25 Apr 2005 20:42:51 -0000
Local: Mon,Apr 25 2005 1:42 pm
Subject: Re: Another two ex-Int Base staffers contact me. Thanks!

Hello Chuck,

I'd like to thank you for doing a really great job and making yourself a "safe terminal" to those Ex-SO that lurk and would like to hook up with other ex's.

I could be wrong but I get the feeling that you may not read my posts due some antagonism between me and Arnie.

Arnie is an old warrior and has very strong opinions that I sometimes disagree with. I also have strong opinions and don't always see eye to eye with other critics, but in my book, that's a good thing, not a bad thing.

Seeing eye to eye with others was was kept me in a cult for a long time so I tend to be a bit ornery at times.

Anywayz, I want to not only take the time to acknowledge your courage and your efforts in recording historial information for the future and in exposing Scn, especially in regard to the RFP and Sea Org.

Good on you! I hope more people come forward, even if anon and give opinions and information.

I would only add one proviso that I believe you have already set. Don't pass on anyone's name (to the other ex SO's) without their permisson. The reason I say this is because as you know, OSA is a slimy group and will more than likely contact you and pretend to be an EX-S0, disaffected person and want to know who you've been in contact with. OSA must hate what you are doing and they are compelled to "find your comm lines" so please protect those that don't what to be known until such time as they are strong enough or safe enough to come out.

Thanks,

Cerridwen

http://www.truthaboutscientolo­gy.com/stats/

"Informing people doesn't involve trying to silence those who disagree with you." --Prignillius

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: chuckbeatt...@aol.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 26 Apr 2005 11:45:31 -0700
Local: Tues,Apr 26 2005 11:45 am
Subject: Re: Another two ex-Int Base staffers contact me. Thanks!

Cerridwen,

I respect everyone, I am pretty wishy-washy, when you you get right down to it. Part of my ability to stay in the Sea Org so long, and also why I can accept ANYONE's views about ANYTHING, who are against all the various bad aspects of the official Scn movement, is my built in "reasonableness", whatever you want to call it. I'm oblivious to the anti-Scn community infighting.

I try to refuse to be "3rd partied" against anyone else, I mean, look how long it took for me to not be "3rd partied" against the official Scn movement.

It takes a LOT of info, for me to ever be turned against another human being.

The only people I am realizing I've been suckered into being 3rd partied against are the great stream of cult experts, who I know the official church has horribly attacked, over the decades, and I've bought it. Jolly West, Margaret Singer, all the ongoing cult experts. I am sorry about that.

Anyone posting on ARS, it is only the OSA accomplices, who I kinda dislike. But, you know, they are people who are just like Tory, Tory before she got OUT of that business. I may even know some of them, when they finally come forward like Tory did.

So there is ALWAYS hope.

I see in the top Scn leadership, there are going to be defectors amongst them, inevitably.

People will continue to pop out of the official Scn movement, and expose their ongoing wrongnesses.

I respect and read as much as I can on ARS. I like to read the books and articles, media, there is only so much time to read it all.

I never had any bad thoughts about anyone, on ARS. Everyone has a perfect right to speak and be judged accordingly. I think ARS is great.

The more I read on how the church attacked the CAN operation and others, I really wish to apologize to those people. Those are the ones I feel I've successfully been 3rd partied to have horrible thoughts about.

I already told Rick Ross I was sorry.

The official church has laid in years of harmful actions, and the fallout of all of their hate-filled and ignorant actions based on LRH's worst ideas, I see and feel most guilty for, that's where I am getting shocked into seeing my views have been so wrong.

Gerry's comments about the people who were devastated by the official church's tactics, the amount of harm churned out by the official movement, is overwhelming in the tens of thousands of operations, and hatefilled moments spent by top Sea Org executives, doing things that are completely out of step, and I agree somehow this all needs to be undone, and some type of pay back.

I am so "pollyanna" (always look on the bright side), my recommendation to everyone is build your character, by exposing yourself to the smartest and wisest of people who've written and spoken on earth. Improving one's personal character, that truly proofs one against all angles of attack from any direction. Honesty, decency, learning and dealing correctly with attacks, and learning how to speak and write well and counter wrongs. And doing this with decency and honesty, and with high character, that is my advice.

I in my "pollyanna" views, I just simply refuse to believe that people cannot change and become more decent and honest, and change, and become nicer higher character human beings.

I wish for everyone to go in that direction. I try not to think the reverse, and I try not to figure out how this or that person, is wrong or bad. My observation about life is that people get wiser as they grow older, and that's what I hope happens to us all.

There are a lot of damn smart people on ARS, and there is a whole world of way way way smarter been/there--done/that people outside of the whole Scn movement, and I think it best to draw on that outside source regularly.

Best, Chuck

==========================


From: chuckbeatt...@aol.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 27 Apr 2005 01:20:42 -0700
Local: Wed,Apr 27 2005 1:20 am
Subject: Re: Another two ex-Int Base staffers contact me. Thanks!

Another answer to Cerridwen,

On the point of not passing people's names to others without checking first, thanks. I check first.

You know, OSA's ongoing problem which they generate for themselves is that when they engage in current subtrefuge and "ops", then OSA staff and OSA accomplices have more new dirty tricks to reveal when they defect. I hope the OSA staffers currently doing dirty tricks are taking notes.

(One recent ex Int Base defector told me they'd heard one of the main guy OSA staffers who engaged in various of the hotter ops they do, that this OSA staffer had been a former NSA staffer, which is a pretty out-there rumor. Nonetheless, I don't doubt that "ex-NSA" OSA staffer WAS doing some stuff for sure for OSA which OSA does NOT want revealed in public. This is the level of defector who if he came forward, could help expose and bring to a halt OSA's most objectionable ongoing or recent past activites.)

I will check your posts regularly. Thanks!

Best, Chuck



Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: chuckbeatt...@aol.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 27 Apr 2005 22:56:13 -0700
Local: Wed,Apr 27 2005 10:56 pm
Subject: Re: Scientology research materials needed

Frank Charleston wrote:
> The purpose of my research is to become informed on the teachings of
> the Church. I am not looking to attack Scientology, Dianetics, or any
> of the critics. I am just interested in studying their beliefs as a
> 3rd-party observer.

> Frank

Dear Frank,

At this stage in the Scientology movement's history, there has accumulated a daunting amount of material to review, if you are actually serious, and you really intend to accomplish some research that adds to the voluminous material that is already available both by the official Scn movement and in the anti-Scn sites on the internet.

There is literally easily 6 months to 2 years of several hours a day of reading ahead for you, just to catch up with what has accumulated in the last 55 years. If you are serious.

Check the comments of serious scholars here, about why no one currently researches Scientology:
http://www.cesnur.org/2004/waco_cowan.htm

After reading this link, if you are legit, then I suggest you read the following (in whatever order suits you, but I put it in the order I'd have you do it, if I were your mentor):

1) Library study and Amazon purchase, L. Ron Hubbard's key works, and read them. (You can find these in a library, used book stores or on Amazon.) I suggest:

Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health
Science of Survival
Handbook for Preclears
Scientology 8-8008
Scientology 8-80
The Creation of Human Ability
History of Man
Have You Lived Before This Life
Problems of Work
Scientology: Fundamentals of Thought
Dianetics Today (1975, out of print, but excellent for raw data on what
"modern" preclears ran in 1975 as far as past-lives incidents)

2) Read all these papers and books that are listed, online here:
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/L­ibrary/index.html

3) Then if you want a list, that I have compiled of what I consider the best of the best media, Pulitzer Prize winning media, LA Times, London Sunday Times, etc., etc., you will find it surfing around, or I'll give you my favorite short list

4) Firsthand stories by ex-Sea Org bigtime players in the movement which again I've made my favorite's list.

5) Go through ALL of the official Scientology movement's internet sites, and the anti anti-Scn critics site(s) that the official Scn movement obviously but not so openly sponsers, to get a flavor of the ongoing subtrefuge the official Scn movement accomplices engage in.

Chuck Beatty
ex-Sea Org (ex-lifetime Scn movement staffer), 27 years
1975-2003
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
412-260-1170 (call me AFTER 9pm Mon-Fri, eastern standard time)
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckb­eatty77/

PS: I'd like to hear from you, if you are legit and you are attempting to do something worthwhile. If you are a grad student, PhD candidate somewhere, religious movement budding scholar, sociology major, media journalist, someone looking to actually do some serious filling in the areas of already known knowledge on the Scientology movement, then maybe there is realistically a future for what you wish to do. It is a major commitment, if you are serious, and you genuinely wish to accomplish something worthwhile.

PPS: If you are someone put up to consume the time and thoughts of the anti-Scn critics who have engaged you in conversation here, I also would like you to honestly come forward and confirm or deny this. The official Scn movement accomplices are known to engage in baiting, artificial infighting, spamming, and other time-consuming tactics with the Scn critics. If you are part of the official Scn church efforts you can always blow the whistle on your role in this, if you are supporting these objectionable efforts. Tory Christman came forward and exposed what she had been doing several years ago. I'd like to know the truth, if you care to speak on this point.



alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: LRH - How to eradicate PR opposition
From: "Feisty"
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 17:36:17 GMT
Local: Thurs,Apr 28 2005 10:36 am

"It is my specific intention that by the use of professional PR tactics any opposition be not only dulled but permanently eradicated. This takes data and planning before positive action can occur." (LRH)

(from BOARD POLICY LETTER 30 May 1974 PR Series 24, _HANDLING HOSTILE CONTACTS/DEAD AGENTING_, by Alethiea C. Taylor (as ordered by L. Ron Hubbard))

=============================
From: chuckbeatt...@aol.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 28 Apr 2005 11:01:27 -0700
Local: Thurs,Apr 28 2005 11:01 am

A sad perfect example of LRH's blindness which now the movement is stuck with trying to follow and deal with the bad ramifications of this type of faulty policy.

A person with this mentality unfortunately himself then puts into serious question the quality and usefulness of his other written works.

Us who lived through decades of justifiying our support and our actions of carrying out his policies, need to see point by point the flaws and faults in LRH's thoughts.

Thank you very much. This helps see LRH's mistaken steps to help the Scn movement, which only causes them trouble in the long run, not until they cease following these types of bad advice and policy by him.

Chuck Beatty
ex-Sea Org (1975-2003)
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckbeatty77/
412-260-1170 (call after 9pm New York City time; after 6pm LA time;
after 5pm Denver time)

From: hkhen...@rogers.com (Keith Henson)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 18:23:04 GMT
Local: Fri,Apr 29 2005 2:23 pm
Subject: Scientology noisy investigation or just incompetent?

As I was driving to work this morning, I stopped to pick up a co-worker who was walking.

A sliver Grand Caravan, license# ATCR 068 (Ontario) pulled in behind me. My friend looked back and asked why the driver was video taping us?

It has been a long time since I trapped a PI, the last one was in a gas station in Palo Alto.

http://groups.google.ca/groups­?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&selm=8hi9s­u%245l3%2...

But I remembered the drill, so I jumped out and confronted the guy. He backed up into a driveway and tried for go forward, trying to push me out of the way with his car. I guess he decided I wasn't going to move and that running over me with a witness banging on his side window telling him to stop and right across from the Brantford police station wasn't a good idea.

So he backed into the business establishment and eventually stopped with me standing in front of his car calling 911. Unfortunately, the police station doesn't actually have any police there so they had to call in some cars. It took a while, so I called Arel and gave her a description of the seedy looking dude in the car down to his glasses, haircut, wristwatch and clothes. He continued to tape during most of this time.

When the police got there (two cars), they talked to him and (no surprise) determined that he was a PI who convinced them he was acting within the limits of what PIs can do. Arel came over and took some picture of him and the whole scene.

The police got his name, and though they would not give it to me, they did give me the name and phone number of the company he said he was working for.

Solutions Security & Investigations
119-2550 Argentia Rd.
MISSISSAUGA, Ontario
L5N 5R1
(905) 819-9058

Executive Director: David L Brewer

So I called up Mr. Brewer. Last time I asked about a PI who was tailing me, it turned out the guy was NOT working for the PI firm he claimed and it really freaked out the firm.

"I wound up talking to Dan Gimble and another guy who between them know about all their operations. They were mystified, unaware of any tailing operations in Palo Alto and (by company policy) they don't work for cults. (I suggested that saying so on their web page might be a way to distinguish respectable investigation companies from "others.")

"Anyway, they were *most* interested that two guys would be representing themselves to my neighbors *and* the Palo Alto Police as working for their company, and were using an IPSA business card taped in the car window. They were even more concerned when they ran the license numbers and recognized the car owners as police officers (from Newerk and San Leandro) they had former but not current dealings with."

Not so this time. Mr. Brewer admitted he did have an agent in Brantford this morning, but denied working for "a religion" and said he knew who his client was. He did not deny that I was the target of their (clumsy) investigation but implied it might have been because my car was similar to someone else they were investigating.

And, of course, he threatened to sue me if I posted any liable about his firm. I told him I would email him [DL_Brewer (at) hotmail.com] a draft of what I was going to post about the encounter with his agent.

Figuring this event *could* be unrelated to scientology, I called Gregg to see if anything strange had happened to him. He said no, but when I talked to him a bit later, he had discovered that this very morning his garbage had been stolen! This is the first time in several years, and boy did they pick a good time. They got a large bag of rotting food that had been cleaned out of a freezer almost a week ago.

Gregg also tried to talk to Mr. Brewer about the legal pitfalls of working for the cult. Mr. Brewer was not willing to talk to him.

snip

Keith Henson

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: chuckbeatt...@aol.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 29 Apr 2005 21:11:26 -0700
Local: Sat,Apr 30 2005 12:11 am
Subject: Re: Scientology noisy investigation or just incompetent?

Thankyou very much Keith!

I definitely appreciate hearing this news!

I think all ongoing objectionable activities that seem potentially similar to the official Scn movement's decades' long history of similar activities is relevant information to be brought up on ARS.

Best, Chuck Beatty
ex-Sea Org (1975-2003)
chuckbeatty77 @aol.com
http://www.freewebs.com/chuckb­eatty77/
412-260-1170 (call after 9pm New York City time; after 6pm LA time;
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